The Hypocrisy of Upper Class TBMs

You know the types…they always do their home-teaching/visit teaching, pay their tithing, attend the Temple frequently and seem to follow all the big rules of Mormonism except the big one…the Law of Consecration or what Brigham Young called as “The United Order.” I imagine under the Law of Consecration that the well to do Mormons would have to give of their surplus to Church to help members who are less fortunate than they are. That means those bi-annual trips to the tropics would have to be cancelled. That means those expensive cars would have to come to an end. Did I mention the family cabin in Bear Lake would have to be given back to the Church? Upper-class TBMs can still flourish under the Law of Tithing, but the Law of Consecration would likely decimate their ability to build wealth. For now, rich TBMs can discuss the Law of Consecration from a distance and act as though they would live it with all their might, but cash is always king in Mormondom.

When talking with a rich TBM make sure to bring up the Law of Consecration and how their lifestyle contradicts that most important teaching of Jesus You will have them in theological trap. They feign their style of righteousness, but do not follow the righteousness that Jesus spoke of.

I imagine that a wealthy well-connected Mormon in the Morridor is like royalty anywhere else. They are royalty there.

As in the greater culture, wealth is concentrated (not consecrated) in the hands of the few.

I see the wealthy spending a great deal of time thinking about their wealth and how to avoid taxes. I've heard Men like David Ramsey preach this idea of "rich people have better character and more integrity than the norm. We should be so thankful for the 1% because without them there would be no jobs. There's nothing wrong with 40% of the countries wealth being owned by the 1%. Trickle down economics, etc...They are the job creators and the market pays them what they are worth. Whopper floppers should fire their butts because they just don't work hard enough." Money is the only god in this world.

Even in the BOM it's hard not to notice how god is so concerned about blessing his favorites with money (prosper in the land). Old Joe was obsessed with get rich pyramids.

It's painfully obvious from reading the Gospels that Jesus did not like the rich and overpriviledged. He constantly berated them for putting their comfort over the needs of the poor.

Anyone who calls himself a Christian and thinks that Jesus wanted anyone to be rich is in denial. Many branches of Christianity think that capitalism and Christianity are incompatible.

As for the so-called "job creators", customers create jobs, not CEOs. Increasing aggregate demand will do far more to expand the economy than tax breaks for a few.

Most of these "job creators" like Trump and Romney inherited their wealth. If Trump had dumped the money his father gave him into a mutual fund and he had surfed every day of his life, he'd be wealthier now and wouldn't have 4 bankruptcies to his name. His ego has cost him more money than it has earned him.

Just starting off life debt free with a college degree puts you far ahead of most people in this country. Add to that the elite connections and you can see why the plutocracy keeps itself far ahead of the rest of us.

Well said!

Well, if the 99% don't have enough money to BUY THEIR PRODUCTS, they won't be able to offer any jobs. WE create the demand for their products - but only if we have money to spend.

In the USA the top 1% are rich. To put things into perspective; if you make about 26,000 annually you are in the top 1% in income in the world. The world's poor would certainly berate those 1 percenters in the USA. The self-proclaimed American poor really should consider the real poor in the world before they blast the rich in their own country.

oldklunker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the USA the top 1% are rich. To put things into
> perspective; if you make about 26,000 annually you
> are in the top 1% in income in the world. The
> world's poor would certainly berate those 1
> percenters in the USA. The self-proclaimed
> American poor really should consider the real poor
> in the world before they blast the rich in their
> own country.

Well, yes and no.
It's all relative.
When I visit my wife's native Philippines, I can feed a family of 8 for $3-$5 a day (and feed them well). Here, the same food for the same people costs me $20-$25. The house I own there (wife's mother lives in it), is a 2800 sq. ft gorgeous place with 4 bedrooms, an office, a terrific kitchen, maid and cook quarters, and on a huge 1-acre lot in the suburbs of a major city; it's worth about $120,000 (a near fortune there), the same house in the suburbs here would be worth $700,000.

"Poor" and "rich" are defined by what you can and can't eat, buy, etc. Whether or not you can live. You can't live as a family on $26K a year in the US. That's poor.

Also, people are constantly told in the U.S. that if they get their education and work hard, they will prosper. Where as in reality you might just be able to provide yourself with the basics.

Well, I'm sure they don't feel bad about not living the law of consecration. The church doesn't practice it at this time, so why would they feel like they should?

Even though temple Mormons covenant to live it in the temple, it's really just agreeing to it IF it's ever required. (At least that's how I had it explained to me). But the time and talents part . . . the church took plenty of advantage of that.

If the church really ever asked members to sign over their property, I think a lot of cafeteria Mormons would find their way out of the church pretty fast.

Come to think of it . . . it's really strange that the church keeps that part in the temple ceremony, since they don't practice it. And I believe it was a big failure when the early church tried it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2015 03:25AM by imaworkinonit.

I'm not sure... but I believe in 'olden days' the distinction between leaders & followers (a.k.a. Rank & File) wasn't as pronounced as it is today;

Of Course in case of the failure of any Morg Program, policy, or practice (United Order), the R&F is ALWAYS to Blame, NOT the design of said situation...

I live around a lot of rich Mormons (I guess I would have qualified as one up until I resigned).

I never saw holding onto my wealth as hypocritical unless the church asked for it. And there are plenty of rich Mormons that contribute generously to charity.

Alpiner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live around a lot of rich Mormons (I guess I
> would have qualified as one up until I resigned).
>
>
> I never saw holding onto my wealth as hypocritical
> unless the church asked for it. And there are
> plenty of rich Mormons that contribute generously
> to charity.


I agree.... completely.

I know a few, well off Mormons. They do donate heavily, either personally or from their business because the tax write off is worth it..

Many upperclass Mormons view shopping at City Creek Mall to be the end all of their civic responsibilities. After all, the Morg takes care f the poor and needy, right? The Boner.

There's nothing "wrong" with doing well and profiting from your hard work.
However, the attitude that your success has to come at the expense of somebody else's is problematic. Selfish greed (I got mine, screw you if you didn't) is problematic. And both are short-sighted. Without customers who can afford to buy your products, you can't have a successful business. Without infrastructure (roads, utilities, etc.) you can't receive goods, process them, or get them to customers. Without employees who make a decent wage and want to work hard for you, you can't run anything but a small sole proprietorship.

When you lose sight of "we're all in this together" as above, you're writing your own obituary. It's only a matter of time.

IMHO, THAT is what the current "1%" is doing. They're not producing sustainable growth, they're clear-cutting. They're not contributing, they're raping. It can't last, and they'll have nobody to blame but themselves -- and their greed and selfishness -- when and if it comes crashing down.

Speaking economics (not politics), the high taxes on high income of the past served a useful economic and social purpose: the wealthy could avoid those high taxes by investing in actual productive enterprises, by actually building things that created jobs, and by creating and supporting useful philanthropic enterprises. And so they did. Removing those high taxes on big income turned a page, and encouraged hoarding of wealth, rather than productive use of it. It's good for the greedy and selfish in the short term, it's horrible for the economy and our society in the long run. And mormons more than happily go along with it, driven in great part by the mormon "capitalist, anti-commie" rhetoric and leadership of the 50's through today. Shortsighted, greedy, and selfish.

+1 yep, right on

I was reading that the average ceo pay has risen far greater than the average laborers wage within the last 40 years. The corporate mindset is to increase profits for the next quarter at all costs even if it's bad for long term business. They may be fired at the end of the year anyway so they loot the company as much as possible before that time comes.

Politicians in Central America have traditionally been notorious for doing just that. looting the treasury then fleeing to Ireland.

Big changes coming very soon in the world economy, should we survive another decade or two. Solar and wind are going up in efficiency, down in cost rapidly. Likewise computing power and AI and VR. Fracking, politics and war have already brought down the price of oil. Fusion, and synthetic hydrocarbon fuels from air and seawater, will make nukes and petroleum obsolete. Little known (at present) new physics energy sources may also come on line.

Robotics and 3D printing are changing the entire manufacturing paradigm, and manufacturing will become local again, instead of being exported to Asia. But yet, there will be radically fewer jobs for live human beings. The traditional model of expensively gathering large amounts of resources into one place, and tearing them down to re-assemble them at great effort into new products, will be replaced by the new model of gathering some basic, widely available nano-resources and digitally printing them into new products without much waste or labor.

We may yet witness the day when we make ourselves obsolete.

Amen.

The wealthy pay comparatively little in taxes precisely because they do invest their assets, not because the tax structure encourages hoarding. Taxes on capital gains are far lower than income taxes for the wealthy, so that's where the incentive is to put their wealth. In fact, much ado was made about this during Romney's run for president, and some people are fond of repeating that story about Buffet's secretary paying a higher percentage in tax than he does. So does the tax structure discourage the wealthy from investing? I don't think so...

I didn't realize only Mormon elite bought property in Bear Lake.

Trust me, if ever I'm able to afford a little piece of heaven there on Bear Lake, I shall not feel guilty doing so, nor will I consecrate any of it to the church.

After following realty listings for Bear Lake, both on the Idaho and Utah side, I can say that houses in the real estate market move very slowly there, and some stay on the market for a good year or longer.

People are not flocking there to buy up property.

Nor do I find it all to be overpriced or inflated. Why are they so hard to sell then? May be because of accessibility. It's not very amenable to good shopping or services locally. Logan is nearest good shopping, and that's a stretch from the Utah side, and a longer hike from the Idaho one. It has no direct access to an Interstate highway system like the I-15 until you get closer to Logan.

It is still beautiful there. I love Bear Lake. It's over 250,000 years old, and the some of the fish there are native only to that lake. The sediment of the lake bed is one of a kind in the world, and the aqua color is just magnificent to behold.

My Mormon pioneer grandmother was born near there in a little country town still there today, Saint Charles. My dad took us kids fishing there when we were very young.

Bear Lake is a beautiful area. However, what bothers me about the large, ostentatious, seldomly used homes is that they are built in places that are difficult to protect from wildfires. When I worked for the government, we were spending well over $100 million to protect homes around bear lake that were poorly situated and whose owners wouldn't take even the most basic precautions to reduce the risk of their homes going up in flames. In a sense, it was subsidized housing for the rich.

Okay, now I'm confused... Is it true that only rich mormons buy property on or around Bear Lake?

I do know that when I greatgrandfather, who was a pioneer Mexican, took me and my chop shop crew water skiing there, we were the only Lamanites on the lake. People were amazed that we could float!

I have an acre there and am about as poor they come. But no I don't see wealthy people building homes up there. It's more of the upper middle class families who've been around for generations in cache valley who put up trailers.

The Momo wealthy have 2nd homes closer to Jackson, and maybe park city.

Some of the new builds are being offered as fractional shares.

For about the same price there are listings that you could own for as much, and not have to divide your time up between three other owners.

Garden City, Utah has more mobile home parks along Bear Lake, and condos and townhouses.

Fish Haven, Idaho has more of the upscale builds, and you don't see mobile homes there much if at all. Garden City has some nice views but is more built up with condos and congested than the Idaho side is.

There is a small percent of the local population who live there year round. It's mostly service sector jobs in the tourism and recreation industry there because of the big draw by outdoorsy types and sports enthusiasts.

Other than that, it seems like a depressed economy. On the Idaho side, the closest towns for jobs are Soda Springs and Downey. Maybe Preston. Then Logan on the Utah side, for commuters.

The thing that has consistently amused and sometimes appalled me over the years is that the rich along with the well-to-do seem to have no idea how most people live. Tell them that you can't afford a home with all the bells and whistles, or a Mercedes-Benz, and they get that. They worked hard to get where they are in life and they figure that they deserve those kinds of perks. I don't have an issue with that.

But tell them that you can't afford a new sofa, or carpet, or a weekend away, or that you have no intention of trading in your high-mileage car, and you feel like you are watching their heads explode. They just can't comprehend that life for some educated, skilled, employed individuals is like that in 21st century America.

A friend of mine who is educated and experienced in a skilled trade lives with her elderly mom. They both do without internet and cable. Affording health care, even with insurance, is a struggle for her. Restaurant meals are out. She can do the occasional movie. This is prosperity?

I have zero sympathy for businesses that complain that consumers are not spending money. People would spend it if they were able.

My last car was 20 years old when I turned it in for a beautiful new one which I love. But I loved the old one too. It had served me well and had miles piled up from my years of long commutes to work. As it aged, I noticed other drivers becoming impatient with me for not turning left fast enough if they thought I could make it, not gunning the motor and speeding off quick enough when the lights turned green, not going above the speed limit on the narrow winding road leading to my tiny street with its jack knife angle. I would get beeps and middle fingers now and again.

I drive exactly the same way in my new car. I'm a confident able driver but safe and legal. No one and I mean no one beeps or flashes their lights at me in my fancier newer car.

I think many people who look rich are living on credit cards and paying outlandish interest on their dept. Sometimes people who shop sales, watch their pennies, and use things until they're worn out are much more financially solvent than those who flash wealth and status.

To me it makes sense to wait and pay cash for big purchases. Sock away a nest egg because you never know what the future holds.

MeThinks that some Otherwise Good Mos flaunt laws, Rules, & conventions that others observe... just to show they're 'On The Way Up' in MoCircles;

what else would being MoRoyalty be good for?

WMR & M.L. Bean (now deceased, of Seattle) are/were my personal Headliners.

WMR avoided (or Evaded) the year-long wait for a Sealing after a 'civil marriage';

MLB lived in Downtown Seattle (1st Ward), but got a FP Pass on attending/having his records there; I'm guessing the likes of Magnolia weren't good enough for him, he might have been assigned to H.T. in (GASP) Capitol Hill (where lots of (Dbl GASP) GAYS & LESBIANS LIVE(D)!

RIP, Monte; did HF give U Preferred Seating INSIDE the Pearly Gates?

wow, the way that you are talking here, it sounds like you would not have much sympathy for Mitt and Ann Romney and their desperate struggle to get through BYU ............ Mitt had to sell off part of his stocks (that he inherited) in order to have enough money to pay his way you know!!!! Ann loves to point that out .....as an indication that they struggled just like everyone else..... that they are regular people just like everyone else .....I would say more, but I am having a hard time typing through all of the tears

My MORmON brother got pissed at me when I pointed out that high profile MORmON advocate Willard Marriott has made 100's millions of dollars off of the sale of porn at Marriott hotels,far more
(FAR MORE) money than most porn stars, more money than most porn production studios. I pointed out that Marriott was such an integral part of the porn prophet Ooooops I mean profit, equation that Marriott started to dictate to porn studios that the studios had to lower their prices in order to keep operating with Marriott. That really ticked off the porn studios. Marriott was such a huge player in purveying and peddling porn that the studios were compelled to comply.

My brother who is an accountant, slammed me with the fact that Willard Marriott *ONLY * owns 55 million shares of the 330 million existing shares of Marriott stock. SO, (MORmON logic ahead) even if Willard was making money on porn, which he was not, he was not the only one ....... AS IF that would make it OK.


I took those numbers that he provided, factored them out with the current price of Marriott stock, how profitable that a porn viewing sale really is for a hotel (since porn viewing is an almost pure profit add on compared to the other services involved in renting a hotel room, as a matter of fact it might be the most purely profitable sale in business that there is) and showed how it would have to be a fluke / screw up If Marriott had not made half a billion dollars off of porn in the previous decades. That really ticked off my brother, who said that my math was all wrong. So I conceded and said that even IF Marriott had only made a million dollars from porn - a ridiculously small amount, considering the situation, that was far below certainty IF a person could be reasonable about the matter, that it was still infinitely more than another number that I was ABSOLUTELY certain on which was ZERO, which is what either one of my grandfathers, a MORmON and a NON MORmON, had made from peddling porn. My brother insisted that I was not in touch with numerical reality and he did not want to talk about the matter after that.

I want to buy a big bag of salt or sugar and give it to my brother. Then he can count the grains in the bag until he gets to 55 million so he can finally own 55 million of something/ anything, (just like Willard Marriott) to get a better grasp on how much 55 Million really is.

Most wealthy MORmONS are obscene and disgusting.

Thank you for this:

".....I would say more, but I am having a hard time typing through all of the tears."


It is a joy to be alive in such times!