I am at BYU. My bishop cornered me today at church (cuz I've been avoiding it), and asked if I had a quick minute. I said sure, just to get this over with. So he marches me back to his office with his hand on my shoulder (You know, the kind of reassurance that says, "I'm your friend. I want to help you.").

He sat me down and proceeds to have a chat with me about whether I'm happy with the direction my life is headed. My instant reaction was WTF?! I have had no prolonged conversations of any sort with this bishop. I hardly ever see him.

He says he called my home ward to see "what gives." and he named my homeward bishop and said Bishop So-and-so said said there was probably something I should tell this bishop sitting before me.

I played it cool, but I was furious inside. My parents think all my beef with my past church leaders has been self-generated. It was all in my head, or it was just the one individual, and I can't take it and judge the whole church with my experience with one bishop, and then this sort of thing happens. This feels like a serious violation of my privacy. I have a hard time trusting a man who says nothing leaves this room when he just illustrated such is not the case. I have often wondered if there isn't some permanent list of all the stuff that you've done, and confessed to, that gets passed around with your records.

He told me he got the distinct impression from the Spirit that something was wrong with me, and he asked if there was anything I wanted to confess to. Well, I've got my poker face on, because I don't know what he knows about me or my online activities or things I have said about the church anonymously. Great inspiration he's got. I come to church because I have to, and while I'm there I generally loathe the time until it's over. I can't manufacture enthusiasm for it anymore.

He didn't threaten me, but he might as well have when he said "there's nothing you really could have done that I would mandatorily send you home for." Followed my more reassurances that nothing leaves that room, should I so choose to heave my heart into my mouth for him right then and there. I politely declined and told him that I had "it" covered and if "it" became a problem again, I would let him know first.

All day since, I have felt violated in some way. I can't quite put a finger on it with an exact description, but it's a feeling that finds me at random intervals throughout my day and reminds me that this cult owns my life and controls what happens to me as long as I am in it. The worst part about it is that it wears the face of friendship the hardest when it is "worried about" me. Anytime anyone shows affection to me, it's hard for it not to feel shallow, because i don't know if they wouldn't stab in the back if they had enough information about me.

I'm near the end. Just leave me alone, BYU, and I'll go on my merry way when this nightmare is all over. And you can keep your "fellowship."

You know what they're up to. They want you to think they know something when in fact, they're just fishing. Keep your eye on the long prize of leaving and not looking back. Keep doing what it takes. They love harming people in the guise of helping. They're as dangerous as they seem.

To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the scariest words you will ever here are, "I am from the LDS Church, and I want to help you."

LOVE IT!

:-)
+1

"Bishop, I want to thank you for respecting my right to not discuss any real or imagined imperfection with you at this time."

Shake his hand and discern the spiritless response in his countenance. Leave the room, closing the door gently behind you.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/pets/dog-behavior/dog-myths-about-rank-and-dominance?page=all

I'm glad that you deflected his query. I would feel violated as well. I agree with Devoted Exmo that the bishop was fishing. How sad is that to feel the compulsion to poke around in a random acquaintance's personal life? Doesn't this bishop have better things to do?

Next time he approaches you be ready to say you are too busy for a "quick chat" and move hastily away. Do not smile or act engaging, just very business like and "busy" and avoid even looking in his direction if you can help it. You owe him nothing and he has already proven to you what an A$$ he is.

these type of people with their over inflated egos and ideas of self importance are like farts in the wind. Just move away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 06:10AM by dejavue.

Bishops, parents, "friends," neighbors can and do pass around gossip and connive to manipulate those who don't fit their idea of a perfect Mormon.

You were very smart to keep your poker face frozen in place. Never reveal incriminating information to any official Mormon because you never know how they'll use it against you.

They are kind and reassuring as long as they think they can influence you. Once they realize you're using your brain and pulling away, they can become vicious.

Never reveal any incriminating information to ANYONE.

So how does that feel Anon?

Never mind, I already know because been there.

So now you know with perfect clarity. The church is a cult.

Look at how the conspiracy formed behind your back and how those in "authority" over you used dirty tricks to get you talking. Threats and bribes were used. Lies about the ability to see into your mind were used to get you to pony up personal truths that no none has a right to. You were lied to big time.

Would Jesus be involved in such cloak and dagger deceitful BS?

Good for you for not giving that douche info he could use to control and or destroy you.

These peeps can't read you mind, aren't talking to any spirits and have no authority over you whatsoever. Play the game and stall until you are out and financially independent.

Memories. Light the corners of my mind . . .

It was the same for me. I figured out the church was a lie while at BYU and had about a year and half to go and I was gay on top of it. Never ever admit to anything. You handled it perfectly. Mystery is your friend.

What I hated was the Honor Code obligation to turn people in. So II trusted no one, ever. Couldn't afford to. The upside is that you are developing a skill--holding your cards close to your chest and playing with caution--which will help you through the rest of your life.

When I was at BYU that last year felt like I was smack dab in the middle of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. You never knew who had a pod. I had my car packed and headed straight from my last final out of town--getting past the Point of the Mountain was thrilling. Told them to mail me my diploma.

That is SO invasive. The same thing happened to me at BYU long before you were born! how long before you can leave? You were indeed violated. Good luck as you sprint to the end.

I am assuming these two Bishopricks shared personal info on you. You have a right to feel violated and ganged up on!

So, it sounds like Home Bishoprick had "dirt" and the two of these yahoos touched bases and current location Bishoprick decides he needs to check in on you.

What disturbs me the most is that if you went to the HOME Ward and discussed your issue..it should remain THERE. It should have been handled, counseled, forgiven.

Not so in the the LDS church. No matter what your record follows you. It is NEVER forgiven and never truly forgotten. LDS people LOVE to gossip and jockey for position of worthiness.

what they are doing to you is harassment.

RMM

Yes. And, the bishop will share whatever you tell him with the Dean of the Honor Code.

This happened to me. I got called in to see the Dean of the Honor Code because they had me mixed up with someone of the same name who had done something "awful." Scared the hell out of me. I was halfway through the interview before the Dean figured out that he had the wrong John Doe. But it was clear he had gotten all his information from 'informants' like the bishop and other students before he let me go.

I was supposed to be there but only because someone reported that my hair was toughing my collar. Geez. What a relief that was. I figured they had all the goods on me.

Don't say anything.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 11:29AM by blueorchid.

You'd think that a church founded by a guy with a name like Joseph Smith would be really careful about checking identities!

Bishops Discernment: Accepting information from gossips and and then scaring you by pretending the spirit was involved.

In any ward, the bishop is not a spiritual leader. He is a Supervisor of the local LDS,Inc. franchise. He reports to a District Manager called a stake president. He is nothing more.

If a bishop tells you that he has a spiritual prompting about you, rest assured he has heard human reports about you. The bishop in you case is trying the oldest trick in the book to get you to confess something so that you can see that any difficulty you are having is due to sin.

Be very careful. These crafty people will speak all manner of guile to keep you in line. They will also hold your education over your head. If you don't play the game just right, that's a lifetime of debt with no degree.

Be advised that the bishop probably will enlist the aid of a roommate or a friend in your ward to track you and report back.

An anecdote: My BYU bishop was certain (and he was right) that my roommate Don was having sex with his fiance. He called me in to his office and asked me if I knew anything. Even though Don had told me everything, I denied knowing anything. So the bishop tasked me with watching Don, and trying to be around him and his fiance at the same time and try interfere for good and make sure they weren't going too far. I acted like I would and said, "Sure, bishop," and then didn't do anything of the kind. Don went on for a couple more months having sex with his fiance, and for a while was afraid she was pregnant. They got married on schedule in the Manti temple. They had to have gotten their recommends from the same bishop.

At BYU: Assume there are spies. Trust no one. Wipe your computer clean.Tell no none your true feelings. Tell no one anything. Go along to get along to protect your degree. Remember that these people will spread rumors and lie. Lying for the Lord is righteousness in their view. Being a tattle-tale is like some kind of badge of honor there.

I don't know why but the great thrill is turning someone in and getting them in trouble. That's a big game at BYU. Been like that for decades. In the 60s there was a whole network led by the then President Wilkenson. I don't think much has changed, just more covert.

Yes. You've been violated. Refuse to tell a bishop anything other than that you are fine, if he is sensing anything it's just your stress over exams, or something else reasonable.

They do the same thing in local Wards. Members love to go to the bishop and say they had a dream or were inspired to tell him that so and so did such and such. They are not sure, but where there is smoke there must be fire.
I won't go into what was done to me but it was horrible. Every single one of them will rarely take responsibility for their gross behavior and will blame you. You are the problem, you have the problem.
Never trust any of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 02:18PM by SusieQ#1.

That was very creepy and dishonest. They remind me of the Soviet Union. Or a good cop/bad cop interview.

Be careful. I have a pretty good idea who you are from your other posts and writing style. Try to change identifying information (school, gender, type of ward, year in school, etc) because these 'leaders' are keeping an eye one you. You know what they say: you aren't paranoid if people really are out to get you ;-). And maybe have a talk with friends or parents, if you think they have been talking to church leaders. Maybe they haven't thought this through and may not realize if they are putting your education and future at risk by trying to 'help' you.

You did an excellent job of not spilling anything during your interrogation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 02:29PM by imaworkinonit.

I remember almost nothing about going to church at Ricks...probably because I despised it so thoroughly. My only interaction with the bish was due to my non attendance at old testament class....and he was a smarmy asshole then too.

RB

"My bishop cornered me today… and asked if I had a quick minute. I said sure… he marches me back to his office with his hand on my shoulder… He sat me down"

My amateur assessment, which is worth exactly what it costs:

You feel violated because you allowed the bishop to assert dominance over you. He was able to act as alpha, with you as clear beta, in full public view. I'll venture that you feel you surrendered your power to him, and you're angry not only at him for doing it, but also at yourself for submitting so completely.

Obviously you can't let it happen again. First, never agree to a meeting of any kind, even a quick one. Agreement shows him that he indeed holds some kind of authority over you. It feeds his ego and makes him more confident and assertive to take the next step. And you don't want that. You want to keep him off balance from the start.

Second, don't go into his office. It's his turf, his lair, the bishop-cave where he feels most comfortable and powerful. He has you where he wants you. Now, if it's your intent to turn the tables, to commandeer his space while you're there, that's something else entirely. In that instance, you need to have a lot of self-confidence, and to have prepared in your own mind how it's going to play out. It doesn't sound like you're quite there yet.

Third, NEVER(!!!) let him touch you again. No physical contact, ever. For any reason. Marching you back to his office with his hand on your shoulder (an act of total control) must have been humiliating, especially if others witnessed it. If he places his hand on you again, knock his arm away, hard. If he tries again, knock it away, harder. If push comes to shove, then shove. Tell him flat out never to lay a hand on you again; if he does, you'll consider it as an assault (legally, it just might be) and you can and will defend yourself.

You can do this. Practice it mentally until it becomes an automatic response. If the situation arises again, the look on the bishop's face will be worth all the effort you put into it.

My sp once tried the shoulder hug/garment feel up. I loudly told him to NOT touch me. There were about 30 people in the room. Trust me, he never tried that again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 04:05PM by madalice.

I once had a married Mormon friend who was having an affair with married guy in the ward. I didn't approve of what they were doing, but I knew just about every detail because she confided in me until I told her not to.

One day the RSP drove over (30 miles) to visit with me. She'd never done that before, so I was a bit suspicious. Eventually she got around to bring up the topic of my friend. She went from saying nice things to gently trying to pry information out of me.

I told her if she wanted to know what friend was doing, she would have to ask friend. RSP became not so friendly. She said that she knew I knew what was going on and it was MY DUTY to tell her everything I knew. I just smiled, handed her coat to her and told her to be careful on the long drive home.

I was forever black listed in that ward after that. The ward divided up into sides and went to war with each other. It was insane. I was so glad I lived 30 miles away from everyone in the ward. Lucky me.

Bishops have no problem sending others out to snoop and spy. My own father did it when he was a bishop. He even called me 2000 miles away to ask me my perception of someone. I also witnessed discussions around the dinner table about things going on with people in the ward. Bishops will use anyone they can to dig for info.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 04:08PM by madalice.

I know exactly how you feel except for the part about going to BYU. I'm in my late forties and I still have trust issues since being in the bishops office as a teenager. And even a young married person. Even when we left 8 years ago I still let the bishop assert his authority over me. It's ridiculous when you think about it. It's all pretend but they can do so much damage with your self esteem, family and reputation. Keep you head low and don't give them anything! Hang in there.

Bishops are full of BS.

I wouldn't trust him with any of your confidences either.

Countdown the days until you can get the heck out of town, and plan to celebrate when you do.

Dirty Ernie Willcurson is green with envy .

In the 60s he didn't have digital danites, he relied instead on his own morality mafioso who handed out Excuse Me citation cards.

Got more than one of those puppies for wearing me moostash, but that wasn't so bad.

I pitied seeing young coeds who were forced to kneel on cold concrete for hemline altitude checks I shitthee not.

What do you think the home bishop might have heard and passed along? Police report? Word of Wisdom? Reports of being too racy?

If you have a guess what he was insinuating, I would definitely have a few responses ready so you will have them prepared. Even if you did do something he thinks is wrong, it's none of his d@mn business. Don't let them intrude like that. Be stony and unapproachable.


If he ever brings up anything again, I would probably say something like this (alter it for whatever you think he is digging at):

"I'm getting the impression from the spirit that you are trying to initiate a conversation that might be sexual in nature, or something not right or in line with my conscience. I am getting the uncomfortable warning from my feelings that you are showing predatory or bullying tendencies. Also, please don't touch me in any way like you did when you put your hand on my shoulder last time you wanted to talk. I will not be discussing my private life with you. My life is going just fine. There is nothing you need to know, so stop the witch hunt."

Cudos to you for standing your ground so well. I do agree that he was witch-hunting and enjoying it, or he would have had the gumption to not engage in the hunt in the first place. I believe he was receiving marching orders from on high so hunt he did.

Hang in there, and I second the advice to make preparation for what you will do if and when this happens again....and I do think it will. He, after all, needs to follow the leaders! I can vouch for the fact that there are those in the cult who stop at nothing when their position has been threatened and you have been the one to threaten it.

Never forget that for some people the cult rules all things in their life, and if you are in their way, in any shape or form, they will come after you when told to or if their thinking tells them to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2015 11:38PM by presleynfactsrock.

Just want to echo the statement that the bish putting his hand on your shoulder and "guiding" you to his office is a hallmark of someone trying to assert domination. Classic controlling person move.

I used to have an abusive BF who would gently rest his hand on the back of my neck in a crowd, "guiding" me through the crowd. I hated it. His hand felt like it weighed 1000 pounds.

Don't let him touch you. Ever.

I used to be honest and upfront with priesthood leadership when they asked me. Every time--every single time--what I said was distorted, blown up and used against me.

Finally I developed a new strategy. Whenever they would ask me if I had any "concerns" in my life, I would bring up something as a major concern which was causing me to worry and lose sleep. As they leaned forward hoping for juicy details, I described my concern in detail--

BIshop, how can we know when a historical figure was acting on his own or whether it was the Holy SPirit acting upon him? I know you have discernment and all, but as we read church history, it would be important to know. When, in your studies, do you think Joseph Smith received the Holy Spirit? I have heard that some people think he WAS the Holy Spirit! Isn't that a hoot? I would like to make an appointment to go over the facts and speculation on this subject with you in detail, say, Saturday afternoon?

You will be blown off so fast it will make your head spin... and he will never ask you again.


Kathleen

PS If you are the bold type you could always say your current concern is the erotic touching that seems to be practiced by the priesthood leadership in this ward.