And more than likely to my whole family indirectly by gossip. That seems to be the big brother family reporting system of shame and guilt.
My father sent me a gift this Christmas. When dropping off the gift I was told that he hopes I am not offended. Great now I know its propaganda.

I childishly opened the gift before christmas. I am not ashamed this time. Low and behold, it is the tripe written by the man and mormon legend himself Hugh Nibley.

I don't see mormon apologists use his work much anymore. Has it all been debunked? And more specifically does his book Abraham in Egypt really present anything remotely scholarly? I haven't found many responses to this book of barfs.

Does it smell of rich mahogany?

Not exactly in the habit of smelling books. Much less smelling them for information on what they contain. I usually leave that up to other senses like sight.

Edit: I just realized you might be making a joke or some thing similar. I apologize but it is lost on me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2015 04:42PM by scaredhusband.

Nah, it was a lame joke, "legend"



Will Ferrell in Anchorman...(Legend of Ron Burgundy)

sorry

FWIW, I laughed...

Debunk everything in it through LDS resources and then give it back to him.

Yes, it's been debunked. By the church itself if he reads the essay on the church's website.

Their explanation is "Translation" doesn't mean "Translation" of characters but more inspiration of meaning or inspired works such as Joseph's inspired version of the Bible or the inspired version of Moses found in the PoGP. He could also watch the Brother Jake video, read the CES letter, read Mormonthink, even read FAIR's convoluted ideas... none compare with Nibley's.

You could also point out in the late 70's Hugh Nibley did a 12 part series in the Ensign on the Book of Enoch which is part of the Gnostic Gospels, but it never got canonized. Also Nibley wrote that Ham tried to steal Adam's garments from Noah and thereby tried to steal the priesthood... So Ham's descendants were cursed for that infraction... and so on, and so on.... yeah, Nibley's been debunked over and over for a lot of his intellect teachings or been thrown under the bus for some of his teachings, depending on how you read him.

I'd have thought the CES Letter would be more than enough to blow his coffin out of the ground.

Tom in Paris

My dad would give me religious books and then say that he was giving them to all his children and didn't want to offend me by leaving me out. I knew they were specifically for me and the others probably already had them.

I just took them. I knew he couldn't bear not to at least try to bring me back to the fold. OF course this was decades ago. I didn't have any way to counter his religious writings of the supposed prophets.

But it is 2015 and there is Google and everything, so you could give him the CES letter as a present and say you "hope he isn't offended." Turn about is always fair play.

If my Dad were alive I would give him No Man Knows My History and say this is the book that the church called lies and excommunicated Fawn Brody because of. The church has recently admitted to pretty much everything she wrote in it. I thought it would interest you--Joseph's true history.

Buy Dad "The Kolob Theorem". Include reviews from Amazon.

Advise Dad that giving you Nibbers work is like handing you The Kolob Theorem and you hope he is not offended by the analogy.

He didn't stop to think what you might like or need, only what he wanted you to have.

I couldn't imagine giving someone a book on a religious theme unless you were 100% sure it would be welcome. What, was the store all out of sweaters?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2015 05:57PM by summer.

He actually thinks that it is for me. It is a nice gesture. He does care, just not enough to listen or think that any opinion that I have reached is my own. And I have to commend him on actually caring, its a step up from what it used to be growing up. It is sad that it takes him loosing the image of being a decent father. He starts being a failure father to his parents/family for him to actually care.

I just wish he would actually listen to what I was saying instead of hearing "blah blah blah faith crisis blah blah blah your son is apostate blah blah blah [insert favorite buzz-word here]"

Sounds like my parents gift giving. They always gave me something they thought I should like. They never paid enough attention or read my wishlist to actually get me something I would like.

My older old son last year after opening his Christmas present said "Do I have to keep this?". The response was of course not and we promptly donated it to goodwill. I don't think I could imagine a worst gift for my sons personality.

I have refused to give them my new address after I moved over the summer. We now live way too close to them and my children do not deserve to be exposed to them. My dad left me a messsage last week saying that my mom wanted to know where to send the christmas presents. I almost died laughing. Needless to say the call has not been returned.

"It is sad that it takes him loosing the image of being a decent father."



If you believe he was sincerely trying to be kind to you, in his own TBM way, take it as that. It's not a slight against you that he never found an escape from the programming, and can't hear anything but "blah blah blah... apostate..."

His not turning to shunning has to be a positive.

It sounds like he just can't wrap his mind around not being TBM. I'm sad for your losses, but glad you have chosen freedom over a self-imposed prison.

Give him a gift that you think he can use - it doesn't have to be church related. Let it reflect the new you, something he wouldn't normally indulge in. Be YOU, not a reflection of him.

I agree with you. It is still hard for me to separate the conditioned response of a TBM from that of a genuine self. Not to mention I have let past feelings of the relationship muck up the present situation.

Thanks for the insight.

If someone gave me that book, I would burst out laughing. It's full of comedy. Not quite as funny as people getting their arms chopped off, but still funny.

On the first day of Christmas my father gave to me:

A Passive Aggressive Mormon book

You could do him a favor and get him a book about how to fix some character flaw he doesn't have. (Include an explanation regarding why the Nibley book wasn't a gift-that you would prefer simply spending some time together doing a non church related activity).

You don't need fixing, or a time machine, or a testimony.

I've been there, over and over. If you don't explain why it is wrong, they continue the behavior, like the right book will fix you... Good luck dealing with your family.

♪♫ On the second day of Christmas, my father gave to me, two masturbation lectures, and a passive-aggressive mormon book. ♫♪

(Anyone else? This might be kind of fun.)

scaredhusband Wrote:

> I childishly opened the gift before christmas. I
> am not ashamed this time. Low and behold, it is
> the tripe written by the man and mormon legend
> himself Hugh Nibley.

Nibley is a security blanket for older Mormons. My sister has several Nibley books on her bookshelf, but like most Mormons she has never read any of them. They are not bought to be read. They are bought so Mormons can feel confident that some smart guy, who happens to be a Mormon, wrote these big books so the church is true.

I was told by an area leader in Australia that Nibley was as close as we got in the church to a lay prophet. Yet people who knew him at BYU thought he was very eccentric, bordering on antisocial.

my mom gave me a nativity to put in my apartment... im pagan. i sometimes you just smile and nod and appreciate the thought, knowing they meant well. and sometimes.. rolling your eyes and saying 'you KNOW im not mormon...' is a better reaction..