This board should be a safe place to debate, disagree, and disavow TSCC. There have been a lot of O/T threads, often not even labeled so, that I find to be counter productive, and they can really hurt. The recent thread about choosing to be happy is one I will cite. What does it have to do with recovery? As stated, not a stinking thing.

Yet what happens in a thread like that? People, well meaning or otherwise, decide to dole out advice or to make non supported "true" statements about things like medical conditions. I have lived with the stigma of depression. It's not curable - it's treatable and manageable. Sick of debates on issues like that. If you believe you have been cured from depression, it's no different than believing in becoming a god some day.

And for someone like me who right now is going through absolute hell with depression, who is hanging by a thread so thin that every day is a miracle, this thread really piled on.

Can we agree to stop having these kinds of o/t debates here? This site has been my recovery from mormonism refuge. I'd love to still be able to come here for that, but I can't if I feel beat up here on non religion/TSCC fallout issues.

I'm sorry you have been hurt by things that are occasionally said on this site. I have too. However, your description of depression, I am questioning. I don't believe that depression is incurable, but is only manageable. That is not true. If I had depression (and I did decades ago for a couple of years) I would feel more hopeless, helpless; and frankly, depressed if I believed my illness was incurable. Please look at this illness differently. I think it could help you.

;Sorry, I am looking at this the way my doctors and therapists do. You may have had situational depression, but I have major depression. It does not get cured. My brain is defective.

The one thing that is a good bit of wisdom for this site is to avoid those threads that one knows will be toxic to them given their personal circumstances.

We don't want too much moderation on this site for the reason it is for people coming from various experiences.

Hugs to you. :) It's healthy NOT to open every topic.

Such depression is also chemical. If we change our chemical balance by diet or otherwise, we can at least reduce depression and sometimes essentially eliminate it.

I agree with you celeste - if I wanted to talk about/get advice about depression (which I suffer from too - so badly this year alone I've even considered suicide) I'd go to one of the oh so many depression forums.

I don't want to get blindsided by well-meaning, but perhaps not fully aware voices (because they haven't lived it), however good - intentioned they may be.

Not trying to offend folks, but if you haven't lived with the noon-day demon, it's like your a blind person trying to discribe scenery to the sighted. You just don't have the vocabulary. Even if you've lived with a loved one who's had depression or mental illness, it's not the same thing. For each of us afflicted it's our own personal hell on earth that we struggle with every day.

Please be kind, rewind, and perhaps suggest that certain OT posts be taken elsewhere.

What's going to derail this effort is the logical conclusion that the claim is going to be made that "I was only trying to help."

How is 'management' supposed to be able to judge whether a thread is started for an appropriate reason? It's one thing for me to have a strong opinion about pinocchiojo; it's another for me to actually know I'm right. (I am~~)

Then there's the notion, "What if it helps just one person?" It could happen!

I'm lucky, this place is just fun for me, and occasionally I might actually get to help, along with all the laughter. There can't be any guarantees; no warranties. But yeah, people not licensed to practice medicine, mental or physical, should definitely rein in their efforts to 'cure' maladies with personal anecdotes or links to WorldWideNews.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 04:33PM by elderolddog.

Exactly. That is why one needs to use discretion in navigating which threads they will participate in. Some threads that are not helpful to some, can be very helpful to others.

It's a very diverse site, as it should be

You got links to WorldWideNews?

Too bad it isn't Weekly World News - I'd say. "gimme! gimme!"
http://weeklyworldnews.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 04:39PM by brothernotofjared.

Sorry, man, I was obviously thinking of weeklyworldnews, but misspoke.

There is a WorldWideNews.US, but it's just an aggregation site...

Regarding weeklyworldnews, I just read:


"6-INCH ALIEN

A doctor has discovered the body of a tiny, 6-inch alien in Chile."

Turns out the little guy died of a broken heart when the porno industry completely ignored him.

When some one says stupid stuff it can be absolute Hell for some one who is suffering from depression and /or some other personal ordeal, especially when it seems judgmental as well as being stupid. I know, because I have been there. However IF it really is a stupid declaration, then its THAT person's problem and not necessarily an indictment of any one else personally, EVEN IF the stupid person intended their stupid comment to be an indictment directed at a specific party.

I am going to disagree with you, a little bit, and hopefully that is not too painful for you because that is not the intent.

Choosing to be happy is a form of psychological modeling /modality, and psychological modeling has everything to do with how and why people get stuck in a religion, how and why they get out, and how and why they might manage to rebuild. That is a lot to do with recovery, IMO. IF some one is completely discounting your personal degree of agony and travail, just because they ignorantly feel that you should be more committed to the principle of general happiness regardless of any and all reality that you might be trying to deal with (you know, so much like the MORmON church does), then that IS aggravating, and they are the one(s) who are messed up, not really you so much. Its never pleasant to have your legit personal grievances summarily dismissed.

IF, you really are getting torn up by an unwarranted direct overt intentional hostile attack actually based on nothing, then that situation really would NOT be in harmony with the aspirations of site administrators and they would likely do something about. As well, if something is bothering you that much then it probably means that you need some extra help, NOT that you are not entitled to any help. and just shutting off other's seemingly peripheral comments probably is not going to provide you with the relief that you really need.

Just because I disagree with you a little bit does not mean that I did not hear you when you spoke about your pain, because I did hear you. good wishes to you for dealing with your troubled situation, whatever it is.

I do think it is wise to use caution when giving and taking medical advice. The same is true when peole start posting on other subjects.If you dont know a subject you shouldnt be giving advice.It is also wise to be skeptical of advice from strangers online.

Not everyone here suffers from major incurable depression either.

And the post on being happy wasn't telling anyone what or not to do with their lives, it was only giving anecdotal wisdom of living in the here and now.

There are many roads to recovery. What works for one or some may not be for everyone.

Simple logic is if something doesn't apply in your circumstances don't engage in the thread discussion.

There's so many posts here it's next to impossible to read every one of them, so be selective as to what you do read.

We each have our own set of circumstances to deal with. Since we aren't therapists it would also be unrealistic to expect us to understand the kind of major incurable depression you suffer from.

Recovering from Mormonism has its own unique set of problems that people deal with and for some, finding ways to take better care of ourselves is helpful.

If it isn't something you find helpful, move to a different topic. That's what frees you up to find what is helpful to aid you in your recovery from both Mormonism and your depression.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 04:57PM by amyjo.

This board is about recovery...and recovery covers all of the aspects of a lifetime (because the people here are from all different age groups...and even infants, toddlers, and young children are "represented" by their parents or other relatives).

When I first discovered this board, I discovered a place that was---to me---seemingly "magical"...where there were (again seemingly) all of the colors of the rainbow, and where all of the permutations of POSSIBLE life (at least, in our mutual cultures) were represented.

I have always looked upon this incredible place as being the late twentieth century, and now steaming directly through the twenty-first century, equivalent of the storied Library at Alexandria...with the intellectual and wisdom resources of our literal "world" represented, and made available to anyone who wanders in (as I did), and then perhaps stays (as I have).

For very good reasons, you may not think your depression is "curable," and you may be totally correct AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME...

...but down the road a day, or a month, or a year, or a few years, there MAY be a treatment for YOUR depression that surfaces...and if so, you're likely to read about it first, right HERE.

When people leave Mormonism, and most especially if they were BIC and raised Mormons, they frequently have no idea of what is "out there" and is, at least potentially, a choice for THEM.

They frequently have no idea what "normal," by non-Mormon standards IS...on ANY level.

One of the great strengths of this board is the multiplicity of insights, and the depths of knowledge, of its members...on just about ANY subject which comes up for any of us in life.

Read what you feel led to at any moment in time, discard what you feel led to discard, and take full advantage of all of the available riches that will enrich your own life.

The strength of this board is in the discovered individuality and diversity of its members, and this is to be celebrated, because there are very few resources available which potentially offer what this board offers twenty-four hours a day, every day of the year, for over twenty years now.

When there IS a cure for the kind of depression you deal with, the chances are, you will hear first about that cure right here on this board.

We are on your side, and we hope that you are on OUR sides, too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 05:04PM by Tevai.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think that the people on that thread were talking about major/biological/clinical depression which should be under the care of licensed medical professionals. I think we all know that a number of board members suffer from major depression, and we do feel for you.

IMO it was more about the "blues," or situational depression, the common cold of depression that affects just about everyone at one time or another. I think that a discussion about how to lift one's self out of the blues is a valid topic for this board. Many otherwise happy, well-adjusted people are dealing with seasonal depression due to less light and to issues related to family and Mormonism. For instance we have board members who are getting inappropriate religious gifts, or who are being blocked or shunned by family, or who are alone at the holiday season, or who are mourning the loss of a loved one, sometimes years later. I lost my own father in December many years ago, and it left a pall on the holidays for a number of years.

If you suspect that a topic will depress or upset you for one reason or another, it is best not to click on it, or to abandon it if it is not helpful to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 05:25PM by summer.

Sorry you felt hurt, Celeste. I was upset, too, because to me it's immediately obvious that the idea of "choosing to be happy" also means the idea that if one is unhappy, it is because they have chosen to be so. I don't believe the poster meant to be hurtful, but they just don't see the implication. And it hurts when you have tried to be happy, made a lot of effort to be so, still fail, and have people see it as a "choice". I just try to let it go, as not everyone has been through this experience. Hope things look better for you soon.

Having been through some horrendous things in life -- I believe that it is possible to retrain your mind to develop greater resiliency. This can help one to power through the smaller things, have coping skills for the medium things, and bounce back faster from the larger things that cause situational depression. Again, I am NOT talking about major/biological/clinical depression, but instead, situational depression.

Is this response to me or to the OP? Just so you know, my post was not a response to yours, it was posted as I was typing. I just don't type too fast. :)

To you. And if it helps, I think that the concept of choosing to be happy is rather facile as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 06:01PM by summer.

I believe I've had both situational & biological. Hard to try to separate them, like which part is physical, and which is situational.

I understand. It was the same for a close family member.

celeste is right - I have had some on this board say that chronic pain is something that I should grin and bear. Well obviously these people have never actually had excruciating chronic pain. It is all I can do to barely walk some days and that's with pain pills and a cane.

I am meditating etc. and retraining my mind, but severe arthritis is called severe for a reason and I can't just think it away. All I can do is try to lessen the pain and think positive but sometimes it is very difficult.

Celeste, I do hope you are able to get some help. Depression is very serious. Don't be afraid to take meds for it. Some of them actually work. Your doctor will help you find one that works for you. I am sending HUGS!!! Try to smile at least once or twice a day even if it is difficult. I am thinking of you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 06:02PM by verilyverily.

I am sorry this has hurt you.

I know that some people have a period of depression that they do recover from and others who have it periodically for all their lives.

Sometimes perhaps when we (I) explain how I see things or how I dealt with a situation, it comes across as telling others what to do or else acting all holier than thou. That is never my intent.

I feel the same way as another poster about forgiveness. I get that some people need to forgive the person/ people who have harmed them in order to get over it. That does not work for me. neither of us is wrong or right for everyone else.

I do like hearing a variety of ideas about handling a situation. It just expands the list of ideas one has for handling a situation.

This kind of forum has many strengths but it does make the conversation somewhat limiting in terms of being about to fully explain what you mean and misunderstandings and hurt feelings can arise. Occasionally I post something and then realize it sounds more judgemental or harsher than I meant it to mean.

celeste Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can we agree to stop having these kinds of o/t
> debates here? This site has been my recovery from
> mormonism refuge. I'd love to still be able to
> come here for that, but I can't if I feel beat up
> here on non religion/TSCC fallout issues.

Probably not. Sorry, but that's reality.
And for others, such debates are helpful.

If they aren't for you, don't read them.

I would suggest, gently, that until you can deal with people who don't agree with you, and topics that are difficult, you haven't "recovered." And learning to do that is part of recovering.

It might help if all, I say, AAALLLLLL the people posting the 'here's how to live life' threads cared about feedback, and took the time to reflect on that feedback, rather than telling everyone to F off.

I sense the ol' "Never Being Wrong Means Never Having To Admit You're Wrong" syndrome. Which is basically a self-esteem issue.

But RfM will continue to be an important part of my recovery from car thieving.

Well, if you want to get all socio-psychological about it, yeah...

I agree Itza..... telling people that they can change how happy or not they are is sort of like revictimizing the victim.....
as if somehow your depression is your fault and its up to you to
change it. That would tend to make the depressed person feel
even worse then they did originally.

I think people who get their so called news or health info from
newstand publications should not treat them as if the are the
newest runner up for the pulitzer prize. Don't give advice
based on crappy, uncredited publications, and don't act like you
know, because you don't.

Secondarily, this place is all about recovery from mormonism,
not recovery from being out of shape, or depressed. Some people
just want to get attention to feed that giant narccisistic hole
in their soul.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2015 07:52PM by saucie.

Or "it's all in your head." It's just another version of "pray, have faith, and HF will cure you."

This is why I didn't bother to talk much about how I really felt with my TBM mom as an angry, depressed adolescent because I know the Mo stock answers I would receive. When my sister was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, this is the exact advice she received from our mother.

Are there things that can be done to increase one's happiness bar any psychological or emotional disorders? Sure. But it may not work for everyone and not everyone has the means to engage in some of the activities that have shown to improve one's happiness levels. Those of us who sit down and really study these issue know how complex human emotional and mental well-being truly is and know there's no panacea for it.

Exactly and there's no arm chair psychologist, who's gonna fix it. Thats why these insensitive morons need to zip it.

My husband picked up a book on a trip that I found to be very refreshing:

Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America by Barbara Ehrenreich

https://www.bookbrowse.com/bb_briefs/detail/index.cfm/ezine_preview_number/4247/brightsided

It's basically poking holes in the positive thinking culture, and it talks about how how it's a multi-million dollar business that's being used to manipulate people.

I thought it was an enjoyable book because I've read WAY too many self-help books, and I got kind of sick of the RAH RAH mentality. It was fun to see it from another angle.

Yes, there are things that might help a non-clinically depressed person to feel better. But platitudes can sometimes seem like a slap in the face.

Choosing to be happy, seriously? I fucking hate when people say that. "Oh yeah I'll just make a simple choice and BOOM my life is fixed, depression cured!" If it was that simple, do they really think people would spend so much on antidepressants and therapy every fucking year?

It's just like those idiots who tell people, like me, with Social Anxiety Disorder to "just be more social." Oh, okay... Wow! Suddenly I can talk to people, just like that!! Amazing!!

In my experience Mormons are really bad at shit like this. They try so hard to be helpful and really just end up being harmful.

I just read your post more carefully and remember that it was also the threads about 'choosing to be happy' that also bothered me. They were often authored by the same person as the threads on forgiveness. In theory, they sounded nice, but if you were a person suffering from depression or having had been abused by a TBM, FORGET ABOUT IT! Those threads offered me feelings of low self-worth and suicidal tendencies. Luckily, I started noticing that those threads offered the EXACT OPPOSITE advice of professional therapists. I learned to get rid of that nagging voice in my head that was represented in those threads that just said, "Just choose to be happy! Choose to forgive!"

This is comment was in addition to a previous comment that was deleted (although I did not read the thread(s) the OP is referencing, I did say the name of the moniker who authored similar posts 12-15 years ago, so maybe it's the same person because things seem to never change). Now, my above, previous comment doesn't make any sense, just floating out there like this. I'll try to echo the words in the post that was just deleted of mine, in hopes of saving you years of heartache.

I too read these posts, years ago, but believed them and applied them to my life. It has taken YEARS of therapy from THREE different therapists with PhDs to realize that the advice to just be happy or to just forgive was the opposite advice professional therapists gave. I ended up nearly, completely ruining my life from that advice this armchair psychologist here on this board gave. I was young and at BYU (freshly exmo) when I came here and started reading this advice from this author I shall not name again.

Just please don't take her advice to heart and please stay here. It is hard to do, but just ignore threads like this. I get what you say about not being able to ignore these threads without knowing what they are going to be about ahead of time, but with practice, it gets easier. Just don't cut off your main life-line, like I did for so many years, please. It gets easier. The more you say, "No, fuck you! I'm going to feel what I'm going to feel and it's not your business (I wish I had actually said this then), the more I stopped feeling the negative emotions naturally. I accepted myself and my emotions and actually moved on from them. I was lucky, as I'm sure it was not this easy for most and it actually took me years of hard work to arrive at. Because of all of my hard work and my fear of unraveling all of this (expensive) work, I don't read any threads about just making yourself be happy or just making yourself forgive someone for the unforgivable. I hope what I said helps and that it doesn't get deleted.