Boy it's been a long time since I've posted here. I'd like to explain why. I want to talk about the red pill™ and its unexpected side-effects.

We exMormons like to think of ourselves as Neo bravely choosing to know the truth and finding newfound greatness in ourselves, then promptly using that power to kick ass. This is at least partially how it works, and it is a benefit of choosing to take red pill©, but I think we also tend to deemphasize (or even ignore) the downsides of the red pill℗. Like any medication, the red pill® has benefits and risks.

In the case of the red pill™, the risk is the bitterness, harshness, and coldness of the desert of the real. The benefit is enlightenment. The question is would you really want to know the truth if the truth is unpleasant? Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it (thanks George R.R. for that).

Neo finds himself endowed (sorry) with newfound powers while in the Matrix, but he also awakens in the real world with atrophied muscles, blinded eyes, the inability to walk, and (presumably) with every other anatomical system under-developed because he had never used any of them before (don't tell Trinity). The film glosses over this problem and sequels ignore it completely, but I think this is important because this is how it works in the real world.

When you take the Mormonism red pill€ you don't just get new superpowers and start flying around farting rainbows. When you take the red pillッ in Mormonism you discover you have new superpowers only in the sense that you are able to break out of the cage built to hold your own mind. It's true that you are potentially able to see with greater clarity. It's true that where you once saw love you may see manipulation, where you once saw charity you may see extortion, and where you once saw kindness you may see cruelty. It's true that where you once saw power and authority you will see only men casting shadows on a wall.

It's true that your eyes may be opened and you may realize that black is white, and white is black. Woe unto you I guess. The temple ceremony and the Garden of Eden is a surprisingly good allegory for eating the forbidden red pillΦ fruit, becoming an exMormon, being cast out, having to face mortality, and then having to grow up.

But a big part of this is that you awaken in the desert of the real and this is a bigger deal than we (I) thought. Most of us awake in the desert in a state of physiological/emotional/educational/psychological/social atrophy that in the real world you can't just gloss over with a montage.

There are so many valuable things that people raised outside of the Mormon bubble have the opportunity to learn at a younger age than Mormons do. I can't even enumerate how many valuable life skills Mormons (and to be fair people raised in any number of other cult-like situations) are never taught. I could write an entire post just about all the valuable life skills Mormons never learn and it could span pages. Even really little socially useful things like the names of drinks. One random anecdote because it happened recently; I was at a company-hosted event with an open bar and I was asked what I wanted to drink. I was like, "Yes I'll have an alcohol please," but when asked what I wanted specifically I didn't know any of the names...and that was kind of odd. It's weird to learn as an adult what many people learn as teenagers or in college.

As a Mormon I was emotionally, psychologically and socially stunted and until I took the red pill♫ I didn't even realize it. I was at the low end of the Dunning-Kruger scale. If you don't know what Dunning-Kruger is no big deal, I didn't either. It basically boils down to a hyphenated-name study that claims the same stupidity that makes you stupid also makes you too stupid to know that you're stupid. Because you're too stupid to know you're stupid you end up thinking you're smart. This was me as a Mormon. Conversely, the intelligence required to know you're intelligent makes you realize how much you don't know, and as a result you paradoxically end up thinking you're stupid. This is me now.

Anyway, ever since I took the red pill† and realized that I wasn't always correct by mere virtue of birth, political affiliation, or a General Authority's opinion, I've had to face the desert of the real; and for me that desert is the knowledge that I'm not nearly as smart, witty, charming, kind, correct, or special as I thought I was. In fact, quite the opposite.

That's a tough pill to swallow.

It's like Bertrand Russell put it, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wise people so full of doubts.”

I think that's probably why I haven't posted here for so long. I'm much less confident now that what I say will be correct. That's a side-effect of the red pill™ I didn't anticipate and one I don't think we should gloss over.

Your eyes may be open but once you see how little you know, it's much harder to be certain with any degree of confidence that what you're saying is correct.

I once was found but now am lost, was blind, but now I see.

Thanks red pill♥

> for me that desert is the knowledge that I'm not nearly as smart, witty, charming, kind, correct, or special as I thought I was.

Now that you don't have a badge on your white shirt telling you how awesome you are and how much everybody wants to hear your opinion, you can be. If you want to aim even higher, with a few years of practice you could be as smart, witty, charming, kind, correct, special and good looking as I am ;)

>I was like, "Yes I'll have an alcohol please," but when asked what I wanted specifically I didn't know any of the names...and that was kind of odd.

Just ask for Lemon, Lime and Bitters. You'll be drunk in no time, as in, at no time will you get drunk. I never drank it as a TBM because I figured it was against the Word of Wisdom. Now though, what can I say? I am such a rebel! The best thing is, unlike when you order a lemonade, they don't serve it with a pink straw and a booklet on what to expect when you are expecting.

Nice to see you back, MiB! I think that writing things down can help you to think things through and sort them out along with the rest of us.

As for drinks, most bartenders are happy to help you out with a suggestion or two. Good beginner drinks include a gin & tonic, vodka tonic, screwdriver, rum & coke, and a Margarita. Or try a beer or some wine (white -- chardonnay, pino grigio, saugivnon blanc, or red -- merlot, malbec, pinot noir.) Just go easy when you first start out -- one mixed drink or two beers or glasses of wine is plenty for a beginner.

Great to see a post from you again! I've been thinking along the same lines.

It wasn't like I could stop myself or would even want to but I had no clue what I was getting into or where it might lead when I got curious about Native American DNA studies. Finding out the church is a construct was just the beginning. The amazing part is what realizing that did and continues to do to me.

You could also see this as that scene from Bill and Ted's Excellent adventure where they are looking up Socrates.

"They only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing."

"That's us, dude!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2015 10:10AM by Raptor Jesus.

A holiday honk and a wave...

Drop me a line if you want, my friend.

As soon as rodolfo gets back into town, we can try to have another behind-the-Zion-Curtain hookup...

Finally heard from Jesus Smith, BTW...

You guys check in from time to time, okay? I worry about Danites...

Plus the trolls start rumors you've gone back.

Raptor Jesus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You could also see this as that scene from Bill
> and Ted's Excellent adventure where they are
> looking up Socrates.
>
> "They only true wisdom is knowing that you know
> nothing."
>
> "That's us, dude!"



^ this ^



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2015 10:31AM by Shummy.

I have to agree with you on this one. It takes time to actually study, consider and critically think through things. When you first come out you have a massive backlog of stuff to reconsider.

About 4 years after I left, I started playing a silly little tank game called thinktanks. I played it for a bit at lunch as the 15 minute rounds where great for a quick in and out. Eventually I found a forum for those that played it and ran into a unique online community. It was mostly adults and there was no rules on topics. You just had to be somewhat respectful.

I spent more time on the forum than I ever played the game. Ask a question on a topic and I'd get 20 different responses and opinions.

If you didn't support the responses with copious amounts of references, data and sound logic your argument was quickly shredded. These were educated professionals, mixed with blue collar workers and few kids & teenagers tossed in. It taught me how to really consider an argument, understand both sides and form my own conclusions. The forum slowly died as the game aged but for about 3 years it massively helped me recover from the mormons.

This site reminds me a little bit of that forum at times but its more focused and has a limited user base.

"As a Mormon I was emotionally, psychologically and socially stunted and until I took the red pill♫ I didn't even realize it."

This was me. This was still me for so long. This was sooooooo me that I can't even stop saying this was me.

When I finally realized it after way, way too long --embarrassingly long--I had to work so hard to try to catch up. I couldn't even figure out why no one in the real world wanted to hang out with me. I had nothing to offer but I thought I did.

I still think of myself of the latest late bloomer on the planet but I am damn well going to bloom here, there and everywhere before I die.

At some point you just have to tear into life. Fearlessly. I finally did. I'm still a big mess, but at least I know it this time.


That was a beautifully written post on a subject I have been so aware of for so long, The Man in Black. So important. Must be archived.

Great post MiB. I believe you described true humility. We are certainly humbled when we discover we were lied to, believed the lies, and propagated the lies. It hurts. I think most of us search for some sense of normal after Mormonism.

Nice to see you here. I enjoyed meeting you a couple years ago in SLC.

Feel free to continue to contribute if you have the time and inclination.

So good to hear from you MiB. I hope things are going well for you in your life.

Thanks for that thoughtful post and analogy. It's been 15 years + out for me, and I still have so much to learn. As far as the drinks go, my oldest daughter (over 21) knows much more about them that I do.

Sometimes I wonder if there are some things (mainly conditioned emotional reactions and fears) I'll never get over. But I have to also acknowledge how far I have come after living so long extremely stunting environment. Are you and your family still in Utah?

(BTW, try a Tom Collins next time you need a drink . . . yum).

The Man in Black Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the case of the red pill™, the risk is the
> bitterness, harshness, and coldness of the desert
> of the real.

That's funny, because for me, the real isn't bitter, harsh, or cold. It's warm and welcoming, it's wonder and curiosity and knowledge and confidence, it's REAL friends and REAL family and REAL knowledge about how the REAL universe works.

But then, even as a TBM, I didn't find the mormon fairy tales all that warm and cozy and comforting. I actually found them to be instruments of fear and out-group hatred and manipulation, even when I believed them.

So I guess it's all in the way you look at it. :)

@The Invisible Green Potato. I may have overemphasized alcohol. That was just a small example. What I was really getting at was I've found that outside world of Mormonism I have no idea how normal people socialize and I kind of suck at it.

@Summer. Nice to see you again too. Writing here was good therapy, I should probably do it again from time to time. Always nice to hear from you.

@Raptor. Miss you back man. I hope we can get a sandwich again sometime.

@Cabbie. Nah I didn't go back, just became an inactive exMormon and stopped going to events :-).

@the1v It's not so much that I can't back up an argument with data. It's more that doing so in casual conversation doesn't earn you any points with people.

@blueorchid. Yeah that's the part I really was getting at. Why the hell didn't someone tell me how inept I was? Really, why didn't someone tell me I was Dumb and Dumber? Maybe they did and the Dunning-Kreuger effect prevented me from hearing it.

@Erik K. Meeting you at Temple Square and listening to sister missionaries ask us if we'd ever heard of Joseph Smith was one of the highlights of my adult life. It was so funny. It's an anecdote so good, people wouldn't believe it. So I've never really talked about it. But thank you for that, that was amazingly funny to me. I'll be around for as long as RfM is.

@imaworkinonit I'm still in Utah, and in fact, much closer now than I used to be, even though I've not been to the Harmons-type meetups for years. I should probably go again. You guys were instrumental in getting my wife out.

@ificouldhietokolob I do have a few real friends and even a couple real family. I really should focus more one those few and just let some people go.

Merry Christmas RfM.

That one's a deal breaker for a lot of people.

I still have your e-mail, and I've got one helluva tale myself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/25/2015 12:33PM by SL Cabbie.

I think growing up in the cult is a lot like being a fawn that wasn't allowed to walk right after birth. Instead of doing what comes natural and letting the fawn try to walk and fall down sometimes, the mother keeps the fawn chained to the ground. The fawn never learns how to walk without something dragging it back down.

Some of us were lucky, in that we had nevermo friends in adolescence to show us the way, but we still stumbled and hurt ourselves deeply even years out of the cult. Throwing those chains completely off can lead to running out of the forest head on to traffic. See my post in the "sowing oats" thread for this example. I don't think you were stupid, just raised in ignorance about how most of the world operates.

My fave quote from The Walking Dead this season was Deanna telling Michonne, "Someday this pain will be useful to you."

It would be funny to write a skit about your ordering alcohol experience, though. There really needs to be some kind of skit show portraying the awkwardness of Mormonism and leaving the cult behind. I hope you have a great Xmas.

This post reminds me how only a few of us bother anymore to write well on RfM. I appreciate (and miss) MiB because he always did/does.

Thank you.

Human

Agreed. This is one of the best posts I've read here in a long while.

Very descriptive, tells it like it is.

Good to see you again.

I've always enjoyed your contributions to RFM board. I hope you stick around and share some your insights. I believe you'll bring perspective and balance to board dialog that many of us can and do appreciate. Welcome back.

Sicce

Thanks for your insightful posting.