My sister-in-law's family is TBM, and my husband and I are nevermos. At some point early on in our marriage, someone told us that they probably had baptized us by proxy into the church, which at the time we just observed with mild amusement, as we are really agnostics at heart. Now I wonder based on what I read here if that could be true, since we are both still alive. Is there some other ritual that a TBM would perform on a non-believing family member?

Another question I have: sister-in-law goes to temple maybe once or twice a week for hours. What do people do there, outside of getting married? I gather it is different than just going to church.

I have a neighbor that told me that his diseased tbm wife has been rebaptised at least twice since she has died. TBMs have this thing about sitting around the computer all day long and doing "indexing" as it's called which means that they are scouring all the Utah records for any dead people and sending them to the temple. I heard that the church has even got the inmates at the penitentiary doing indexing too. Strange strange religion, what can I say...

Policy is they have to wait until you're dead.

Sanitized LDS church version:
https://www.lds.org/church/temples/why-we-build-temples/what-happens-in-temples?lang=eng


As for more a more detailed description, I honestly wasn't able to find a plain source of what Mormons do in the temple that doesn't include historical stuff. When you add in the historical stuff it does give a different impression than what current members experience. Anyone have a source?

Your relatives might be temple workers.

But either way, whether as participants in the ceremony or temple workers conducting the ceremony, it's all about listening to a bullshit presentation about the garden of eden and then making promises, on your own behalf the very first time, and then afterwards, in the name of a deceased person. See, temples exist to provide salvation for all, ALL, the people who have ever lived.

If one hasn't been brainwashed to go along with it, one cannot help but roll one's eyes.

Ask your sister-in-law what her secret name is. She'll tell you that she can't, it's sacred. Then ask, you can't even tell your husband? She'll say, "Oh, yeah, I told him at the veil."

Then drop the hammer: "Oh, and he told you his secret name?"

merriment should ensue. He isn't supposed to tell her his name. It's like he has her cell phone number, but she doesn't have his. Some marriage, huh?

Oh, so tempted...

Please do that. It would be awesome.

Gee, I told my temple name to the Love Council.

What kind of a Mickey Mouse ghawd allows the most sacred ceremonies of the religion to become common knowledge? Remember the story in the Old Testament about the non-Levite who saw the Ark of the Covenant was tipping over and rushed to save it, but was nonetheless struck down for breaking the rule that only Levites could touch/handle it. What happened to that ghawd?

Here’s one of the many indicators regarding how puny the ghawd of the mormons has become...

Go to this site: http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php

Surely you know or can find out when your brother and SIL went to temple... Scan the listings and you'll find both their temple names.

You can tell your SIL that you have her husband’s Celestial Kingdom cell phone number.

And as has been pointed out, there are videos of secretly filmed temple sessions on YouTube.

The ghawd of the Old Testament has become quite the puss*

According to their own policy, they should not have baptized you by proxy if you are still alive (which you obviously are :-)).

As to your other questions:

When a TBM goes to the temple for the first time they do the endowment ceremony for themselves. When they get married, they get sealed for themselves. Whenever they go subsequently, they are doing endowments or sealings by proxy for dead people.

They also do baptisms and confirmations for dead people - those are usually done by the youth, but in theory could also be done by adults.

To know what actually happens, you can find the endowment ceremony on the internet - linking to it here is verboten.

Okay, here goes, the rest of you add anything I leave out, it's been over 30 years since I've been to the temple...

Oh, before I get started, they probably haven't baptized you yet, you'll have to be dead (or a convert) for baptism.

Each temple has a baptism font resting on the backs of 12 oxen where the baptisms for the dead are done. Generally, the participants are kids because they're easier to dunk. The man doing the baptisms for the dead repeats something like the following prayer for each person to be dunked..."having been commissioned by Jesus Christ, I baptize you for xxx who is dead, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." (You can look up the actual wording on-line if interested.) Then, each individual will be confirmed a member of the Mormon church in the same manner (kids rapidly getting the confirmation and gift of the Holy Ghost prayer). Boys have to be baptized and confirmed for males, girls for females.

The baptisms and confirmations for the dead will be said AS FAST as the man can say them to expedite time.

As Mormons have already been baptized and confirmed in the church, the above is done for those who are already dead. The rest of the ordinances are done ONCE for oneself, when living, and then these same ceremonies are performed for dead people when Mormons go back to the temple.

Washings and anointings--
Men and women are in separate areas of the temple locker rooms for this. Each person is washed with water and anointed with olive oil to be clean from the blood and sins of this generation. Blessings are given to various parts of the body and the person is eventually dressed in the Garment of the Holy Priesthood by the officiators. The garment is supposed to be the skin of animals given to Adam by God. Garments are the Mormons sacred underwear with the Masonic square and compass placed over the man or woman's nipples. There is also a navel and knee mark. Again, you can look all of this up on-line and see the exact wording.

The New Name--
A person is given a New Name (once for them self, then every time they go through the temple for the dead). Instruction is given that the New Name is secret and never to be revealed except in the temple--mine is Barnabas:-).

The Endowment--

This takes a couple of hours, so unlike the baptisms, washings, or confirmations that can go quickly for the dead, this has to be done over several hours. When your LDS friends or relatives say they're going to the temple, it is probably for an endowment session.

The endowment begins with gods (Elohim, Jehovah, and Michael/Adam) creating the world. The Creation and Fall are depicted with men being referred to as Adam and women being referred to as Eve.

Special covenants with Masonic handshakes are given and shown during the course of the Endowment. The names of these correspond to the New Name and a person's first name. This part of the ceremony uses Green Aprons representing Adam's fig leaves and special white robes and hats. It would take a lot of writing to describe what happens, so again, if you're interested, all of this is available on-line and samples on YouTube (so much for secrecy!)

Eventually, Mormons learn that Satan is behind all other churches and false priesthoods. Mormons then covenant to give everything they have, or will have, to the Mormon church. Eventually, a prayer circle is formed wth everyone wearing their white and green temple gear and each person is ready to go through the veil into the celestial room.

At the veil, the worker gives three strikes of a mallet, and the person gives all the secret names and handshakes to the person behind the veil. By the way, the marks on the veil are the same as on the garment. After everything is said correctly, the officiator says something like, "Adam, having conversed with the Lord through the veil, now desires to enter into his presence. Let him enter."

Everyone will then go into the lavishly appointed celestial room to get a taste of heaven. After a few minutes, they will leave and go back to the locker room to change into Sunday clothes and go home.

Sealings, such as marriages, are done in special sealing rooms near the celestial room after the endowment.

Okay folks, did I leave anything important out? The Boner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2016 11:34PM by byuboner.

What is the purpose of/reason for an endowment? It is different from a baptism, yes? And requires a cast of extras, like my in-laws, to perform?

According to Brigham Young, there are angels that stand as sentinels protecting the entrance to the Celestial Kingdom. Your endowment (gift) is to know and give the secret signs, tokens, and names to let the Angels pass you through to the Celestial Kingdom. Baptism, in Mormonism, is basically meaningless if you want to get to the CK.

Please remember that Mormon theology developed over a period of time. Although temples are mentioned in the Book of Mormon, baptisms for the dead, endowments, and sealings are not mention. These would be developed later after Joseph Smith's adventures in Freemasonry and polyandry. The Boner.

I should note that in most temples (Manti and Salt Lake being the exceptions) the cast of characters--Adam, Eve, Satan, Peter, James, and John and scenery are all presented via a movie. The older temples have creation, garden, world, and terrestrial rooms. From the 1960s on, the newer temples have movie theaters with veils that go directly into the Celestial room.

When I was a TBM, I used to like moving from room to room with the actors me but it took a lot more time and when the actor messed up,Mage lines had to be repeated.

Thankyou, that was interesting and illuminating

That was a good explanation of some really weird rituals, boner.

It sure sounds like some really weird cult. Thankfully it's not the LDS church!

Yeah, I think the most embarrassing question to a Mormon is, "Isn't it true that prior to 1990, Mormons used to practice slitting their throats and disemboweling themselves during the covenant-making parts of the endowment?"

Older Mormon are horrified that you revealed it, younger Mormons think you're fucking nuts because no one in their right mind would do such things!

They might officiate. Or they could work in the laundry, do computer or paperwork, or other ongoing tasks.

The answer regarding baptism is safely "no." You have to be dead. Lucky you. You have escaped that one. (SO FAR!)

If people are not called to be temple workers, but spend hours there, anyway, indicates that they are just doing "work for the dead"--endowments, baptism, washings and anointings. If they work in the temple, they maybe be officiators or cafeteria crew.

Thank you all; this is most illuminating, and not a little horrifying. I will share this with my husband, because I am sure he thinks it is just a fancier church.

I do not think my relatives are temple workers, as they don't go on a set schedule, and I think they always go together. They do spend a lot of time there, though, and if I were one of their (too) many needy children, I would be resentful. Disturbing, really.

Does the indexing explain the LDS interest in ancestry?

Reason for the endowment is to give you the secret names, passwords, and handshakes to make it to heaven. The other cast of characters, besides those getting the endowment, are there to make sure you put the clothes on right and to give you said passwords and handshakes.

Yes, doing work for the dead is why LDS love genealogy and indexing. Have to get everyone the passwords.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2016 11:38AM by mankosuki.

Really I am not understanding why they would do such a thing as baptism of the dead unless it were to increase membership numbers.
The world's first authentic Zombie Church, that would be.

It's actually a really clever indoctrination scheme.

It tells the members it is their duty to perform these acts for everyone on the planet. The entire world is depending upon them. Failing to do it condemns billions of people.

In order to do these acts they must live a "worthy life". I think the temple recommend questions illustrate what worthiness is.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/veilworker/recommend.shtml

This is the question that shows the ultimate goal of temple service:

"9. Are you a full-tithe payer?"

That is 10% of your gross earnings to the church. So if you make 60K per year you must pay $6,000 per year to the church to be able to fulfill these critical duties.

Mormons believe that your eternal salvation and those of your family and ancestors depend upon the temple work being done. So the logical extension is that it all of it depends upon paying your 10% to the church.

10% of *gross* earnings. Ouch. Not even after taxes. No wonder all my nieces/nephews go to BYU. They probably can't afford community college even.

There seem to be many definitions of what constitutes full tithing. You can look up old stuff and it came out to about 3% and it was on the increase of your income but now it's ten percent on your gross before you even pay rent.

LDS doctrine teaches that there are different levels of heaven. In order to get into the best destination in heaven (the VIP room) you have to be baptized and given the secret codes. Be it while you yourself are living, or be it done by proxy after you have died.