Doctrinal duplicity?

Fiscal failure?

Cognitive dissonance collapse disorder?

A sex scandal unearthed at the COB?

Alien intervention?

Not a question of when but what do you see as the Wasatch Waterloo that deals the final death blow to Josephs' moribund Myth?



. . "The man who lies to the world is the world’s slave from then on…...There are no white lies, there is only the blackest of destruction, and a white lie is the blackest of all.”

- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

I was thinking if we find (non-human) life, especially intelligent life, on another planet then that would seriously trouble a lot of mormons, but I think many would still believe even after that.

I think it will be bigotry, specifically against gays. The younger generations won't put up with that. Plus they've dug themselves in deeper with the new policy and public defense of it. Now they can't repudiate their own bigotry without admitting
they aren't inspired.

It's never a good sign when your bigotry is the top story of the day.

http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3391057-155/mormon-gay-policy-is-will-of

Someone, somehow, sometime soon, is going to disclose the Cult's

financials and the camel's back will break like Joe Theisman's

tender, twig-like, tibia.

I am waiting for a disclosure like wiki leaks about the inner circle and their financials. I think that may be - beside the doctrinal bigotry -the lasr straw for a lot of TBM.
As long as it is only single falling humans in sex scandals or something like that it may shatter the shelf of sone locals but not in general. As long as it isn't a GA, who is in prostitutes and drugs or even worse things it won't harm the Mormon church as an institution.

Methinks that D Michael Quinn might be the fourth horseman of the Morgapocalypse with his forthcoming tome about the church's finances.

It will be a raid by the IRS after a complete financial collapse.

Somewhat like Lehman Brother, Enron, Global Crossing, or HealthSouth, insiders will have embezzled and offshored everything.

Isn't their policy towards gays and their lack of financials their biggest achilles heels!??? maybe their bloated membership numbers as well???

If you figure there's already a leak in the boat, a hole in the dam analogy...the church as we knew it is on a calamity course with its own history.

It can only fudge the truth for so long, and those days are over.

Because there is information overkill on why the church is a total farcehood, it's only a question of time.

As for a last straw? I see it more as a dying planet, taking its last breath, as it grabs at straws as people leave it for something that isn't built on sinking sand.

It will be around for a very long time. The indoctrination of the young is highly effective especially when the parents fully believe. The more critical thinkers will continue to leave in large numbers. Young people will also seek out different things due to utter BOREDOM.

In time the steady drain of brainpower and earning potential will cause it's decline. There is no magic bullet to destroy it entirely, just a slow attrition to non-relevance.

Senior citizens with highly regressive belief structures are not well respected anymore.

They lose more than half the kids raised in TBM families, and nearly 100% of kids in Jack Mormon families. They have only 3 kids per family, and 60% of Mormons are inactive, so you are looking at only 16% of LDS youth sticking around, or about 0.5 per LDS family.

combine that with their old fat people that make up most of their congregations and likely pay the most in tithe simply dying off in the next 10-20 years, and the morgues decline will be even more drastic.

The straw is not the finances. Look at all the evangelical church leaders and others who have 40 or 50 million dollars or more at the expense of their followers. It's public knowledge how much they have and how they got it. Their following does not care. They equate financial success with God's favor.

TBMs do not question the church finances and still won't if they are made public. God works in mysterious ways.

The FLDS are weakened but going strong even after the despicable behavior of their leader got him incarcerated. Being disgusting won't end the Mormon church either, because, God works in mysterious ways.

The truth and the history are out there. We know for a fact what and who Joseph and Brigham were and represented. Truth and historical fact are not match for the "mysterious ways of the Lord."

There will always be an element of mankind who subconsciously want what religion is--at any cost. I am very sorry to include my family in that group. I hope I'm wrong and they are only deceived, but I doubt it.

Not the finances, but the "finances." If a straw were ever to break the camel's back, it would be when the government finally has the bollocks to investigate the church's money laundering and other illegal fiscal activity.

Yes. Good point. I didn't think about the government angle. Hitting them in the wallet could really hurt. Having to pay astronomic amounts in taxes and penalties could really hurt. They would be limping for sure.

However, I still think my family and many others would see it as "persecution" that proves they are Satan's target which proves they are the ONE TRUE CHURCH and it would be one more opportunity to demonstrate their mountain moving faith.

Still, it could get the church down to just a few hundred thousand. Back to being a boutique church.

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> However, I still think my family and many others
> would see it as "persecution" that proves they are
> Satan's target which proves they are the ONE TRUE
> CHURCH and it would be one more opportunity to
> demonstrate their mountain moving faith.
>

I'm sure you're right about that.

It would be nice if all of the above were to happen, and I suspect it will. However, for many members it is all about being true to your tribe no matter what happens.

Still watching the morg take some major hits over the years is going to be entertaining in a perverse -fly on the wall- way.

I love the OPs question and I am willing to bet that some of the less "inspired" breathern are asking it also.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2016 01:10PM by druid.

Jews. The Jews will take them down.

They are sick of forced conversions of their ancestors in the temple. They seek freedom for the dead.

I'm a Jew and if I could take them down on this one alone, it would give me no greater satisfaction.

Every time I've tried ringing Alan Dershowitz he's out of town on some other assignment. :(

Seriously, if someone of his stature were to get involved, and take it on, then it would give our cause some real clout. I firmly believe the post-humous dunking could be the Supreme Court case of our century like polygamy was outlawed in the late 19th century only after the US courts declared it to be illegal. That was the only way to get them to stop practicing polygamy. And it is the best way to get the church to cease and desist in its practice of baptizing the dead.

Historischer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jews. The Jews will take them down.

Wrong...!

The "Jews" invented Freemasonry.

Freemasonical-spawned cults like Mormonism, Adventism, Jaydubs and the rest were their babies. Lodgemen set them on foot in New England back then: all part of their ongoing war against Christianity.

The Brotherhood today continues to fund these cash-cow inventions.

Thus, they see no heavy straws on the horizon aimed at their worshipful backs.

Well that's implicit in a future collapse that it's the youth of Zion who will ultimately falter .

They doubtlessly would be unwilling to perpetuate the mess that the dying old geezers bequeathed to them.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2016 01:31PM by Shummy.

I think it is the continued Exodus of tbms. Members notice when a tbm that was leadership material leaves.

20-30 years ago, members left to "sin" but still believed, still had HTers over, and still might be reactivated

Now the leave and tell some close family and friends why, and members notice that.

When they run out of obsolete doctrinal icons to throw under the bus the will be facing the Stalin syndrome.....a dictator who threw his best military minds under the bus and was left with nothing but sycophantic suckbutts to fend off the enemy.

the old foggy fogies that make up most of the rural wards dieing off.

Shummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doctrinal duplicity?

Already happened right at the start, any one paying real attention noticed, and they got out because they did not qualify as real MORmONS.

> Fiscal failure?

Ditto

> Cognitive dissonance collapse disorder?

> A sex scandal unearthed at the COB?

Basically already happened with the Nauvoo Expositor ( and Joe had his ass shot off) and again when Utah Brighamite MORmONS decided that they could openly live MORmON institutional adultery which is mislabeled as *polygamy*.

> Alien intervention?

.......ever taken a good long hard look at Heber J. Grant..... or Gordon BS Hinckley or Bruce R. McDonkey, or Quentin Cook, alien action with in LDS Inc might be going on right now !

Do not give the MORmONS so much credit, they really do not amount to much on a world scale, they are barely a blip in world history and a nut case blip at that, a blip that is only going to get smaller in world history, and MORmONISM already failed over a 100 years ago according to the very goals outlined for MORmONISM by its founder PERVERT IDIOT Joe Smith. At best MORmONISM is testament to the feebleness, frailty and gullibility of some human (MORmON) minds and something to be forgotten as soon as possible, at worst it is only of consequence over the matter of how deplorable that it is.

http://athoughtfulfaith.org/greg-prince-analyzing-this-mormon-moment/

Greg Prince: Analyzing this Mormon Moment
by Gina Colvin • January 1, 2016 • 15 Comments

“I don’t know the way forward yet. I think that it’s going to be a combination of people at the top exercising their inspiration and the people at the bottom exercising their inspiration as well and somehow coming to a comfortable interface in the middle that takes advantage of both sources.”

Author and commentator Greg Prince and I talk history, theology, technology, culture, communication, relationships, disaffection, and policy in Mormonism, and we wonder together about the church’s present and future.

a comment:
"Thank you so much Gina and Greg. This was a fantastic discussion. I wish I could hear more like this within the church.
My 17 year old daughter, after the new LGBTQ policy was announced, told me with tears in her eyes that she didn’t want to associated with an organization that would do something like that. She was born and raised in the church and has always been fully engaged. More than messy church history, the new policy has been a very bitter pill to swallow. We’re currently holding on, maybe because the church was once a place we loved, but unsure if we will be able to for very long. So grateful to hear thoughtful people talking about these difficult issues."

It's already broken.
Just inertia at this point.

- No growth;
- Stuck by their dogma i.e. no flexibility to maneuver either strategically or tactically;
- Entire generation of "The Chosen Generation" youth disaffected by abuse experienced on mission;
- Internet.

Signs they're in trouble are the extreme reactivity, e.g. being stubbornly stuck on sore points while the rest of the world moves on and up; the paranoid secrecy; and the continuing abuse now being ratcheted up. Evidences "panic on the navigation bridge."

Catching the 1st Presidency stealing money

I am friends with the bishop in the ward my wife goes to. His take on the situation is that he is rearranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic. For some, the tribe is the thing.

Continued polarization of the 10% rich and the poor. The middle class will disappear.

The TBM rich will pay less tax and more tithing which will increase their status and power in LDS,Inc. The poor will be forced to sell their land or donate it to the church.

The poor will be hammered on for more tithing. Utah legislators will pass laws to make sure every bit o' junk sold on ebay is taxed and reported on. The old and poor will be stuck in Utah but still very TBM.

Overpopulation in Utah will result in increased demand for water and pollution of all kinds will get worse. (You noticed that Nelson gave his talk yesterday from Hawaii). Northern Utah will become increasingly difficult for the top GA15 to live and breath.

I see a day when the leadership divides itself across Hawaii California and Florida. They will learn how to use "Go to Meeting". GC and firesides will be streamed online only.

Church finances will become even more opaque. LDS,Inc.money will follow the general authorities. All tithing will be paid online.
Lds,Inc. will become LDS International Bank Corp.

Only after the saints realize that they have been deserted, robbed and lied to will the church break. By then Utah will be a great toxic waste basin. Utahns' arid, poisonous, waterless land will be worth zip.

Those blessed by the Lord with riches will be long gone to greener pastures somewhere else in the world.

Well…it's a guess anyway;)

So technology will do what decency couldn't? I would agree.

Mormonism becomes an APP? Sacrament meeting is streamed on your iPhone or iPad? From headquarters, not from your local ward house? Get rid of those pesky middlemen--the bishops and stake presidents.

And, the G.A.s become the Borgias? The Trumps?

Love it.

I can also see a time when meetinghouses are sold and meeting going online.

Youth groups etc would be held in public places or members homes.

The bishop and SP would run everything under their command out of a home office.

This would actually make LDS Inc more opportunity to impose themselves in peoples homes.

It would also save the costs of running many large buildings, as well as transfer any liability to individual members to protect the hive.

Since church communication and services would be held online, LDS Inc could also impose apps and programming effectively hijacking members computers away from information they do not want members to see, such as this site. They could make families ask for it, simply by telling a spouse or parent it is needed because of a porn problem in the home.

Isn't it wonderful?

Isn't it marvelous?

The Lard's church managed through convenient APPs.

Including the increasingly popular resignation APP.

A: Apathy and declining birth rate.

Mormonism is a uniquely American religion. Most Mormons are white Americans who are no longer reproducing at a high rate -- even in Utah. Religious observance is declining in all industrialised countries including America. Mormons won't disappear completely -- like the Amish -- but The Church™ will wane in wealth, power and influence.

Great insights you guys.

I tremble to think how the Morg would benefit by considering your responses.

If the ground were to swallow up Temple Square today, would it change the course of church history for the better?

I've heard too many TBM's defend history that is far more disturbing than anything that might happen in the future, so I've lost hope that there will ever be a "last straw". They may continue to bleed members, they may have to sell property, but they're going to continue to exist as a corporate cult with dwindling numbers for many years.

If there's a God, perhaps he could strike down all of the leadership at once to destroy the cult. If God existed or cared, I think that would have happened by now.