Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
What would you like to talk about?

Now chatting with Lynzei
L
Hello! Welcome to chat!:)
12:17 PM

J
Hi, I'm a long inactive Mormon and I was just reading in my scriptures and had some questions.
12:18 PM

L
Okay, go ahead!
12:18 PM
it's so great you were reading the scriptures though!

J
D&C 132 specifically, about the Law of the Priesthood. Do you know about that law?
12:18 PM

L
I have read it
12:19 PM

J
Is it still a law of God?
12:19 PM

L
Yes it is
12:20 PM

J
So it lists the requirements for plural marriage right?
12:21 PM

Now chatting with Auriella
A
Hey
12:22 PM

J
There are 5 of them and Joseph and Brigham violated all of them by claiming other men's wives as their own, right?
12:22 PM

A
It seems like you just got transferred to me. May I have a minute to read over what you were talking about
12:23 PM

J
#1. Get 1st wife's approval. Emma never approved of Joseph's pretend marriages to other men's wives.
12:23 PM
#2. They had to be virgins. (obviously married women are not virgins)
#3. They had to be given to Jopeph. (there was never a law that allowed a man to claim another man's wife as his own, so they were not 'given' to him in marriage.
#4. They had to 'belong' to no other man. (obviously married women belonged to other men, their husbands)

A
Could you draw specific verses as references please
12:25 PM

J
and #5. once they entered into plural marriage they couldn't be with any other man or they'd be damned.
12:25 PM
D&C 132:61, the Law of the Priesthood.

A
I guess..what's your thoughts on the plural marriage performed by Abraham?
12:26 PM

J
How do you reconcile that with the church's recent admission that Joseph Smith claimed his follower's wives as his own, in their paper on LDS.org "Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo"?
12:26 PM
Abraham didn't claim his follower's wives as his own. King David did, but he was a horrible adulterous murderous person in my opinion.

A
President Wilford Woodruff, who was closely associated with the Prophet Joseph Smith, said: “Emma Smith, the widow of the Prophet, is said to have maintained to her dying moments that her husband had nothing to do with the patriarchal order of marriage, but that it was Brigham Young that got that up. I bear record before God, angels and men that Joseph Smith received that revelation, and I bear record that Emma Smith gave her husband in marriage to several women while he was living, some of whom are to-day living in this city, and some may be present in this congregation, and who, if called upon, would confirm my words. But lo and behold, we hear of publication after publication now-a-days, declaring that Joseph Smith had nothing to do with these things. Joseph Smith himself organized every endowment in our Church and revealed the same to the Church, and he lived to receive every key of the Aaronic and Melchizedek priesthoods from the hands of the men who held them while in the flesh, and who hold them in eternity.” (In Journal of Discourses, 23:131.)
12:28 PM

J
Not somebody who's praises I'd be singing.
12:28 PM

A
Have a read of what I've just sent you and let me know your thoughts
12:29 PM
Is that the reason you left the church?

J
I left after 9-11, when the Prophet had nothing to say about it. I had to find soruces that did have something to say about it. And I did. Plenty of them, that were far more forthcoming with truth than anything I've ever heard from a Mromon Prophet.
12:30 PM

A
May I ask if you believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God?
12:31 PM

J
My wife left when she read "In Sacred Loneliness, The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith": and it has become more clear to me that there is no defending Joseph Smith or Brigham Young's morality on this issue.
12:31 PM
I believe the Book of Mormon is an interesting artifact of a naive 19th Century man who managed to convince a lot of people he was the first man to have seen God in the flesh and lived to tell about it. I don't believe he did.
12:34 PM

A
Well Moses saw God face to face, so did the other prophets back in the Old Testament. What good did it do to him? I mean he died ultimately. What good did it do to him?
12:34 PM

J
Moses saw god's finger, that's it. Not his face.
12:36 PM
And he was probably high on weed.

A
In the scripture, it says He was talking to God as if he was talking to a friend
12:36 PM

J
Burning bush was weed.
12:36 PM

A
How did you come down with that conclusion?
12:36 PM
And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

J
Weed has been around forever. He said he saw a burning bush. It could have been weed.
12:37 PM

A
Explain to me how you would talk to you friend?
12:37 PM

J
Explain what?
12:38 PM

A
Jacob saw God as well
12:38 PM
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

J
I'm just trying to get an honest answer from a Mormon for once. I'd love to go back to church, but I can't get an honest answer.
12:38 PM
Who knows what they saw? I wasn't there!

A
I am quoting the scriptures! I'm telling you they saw God. They were prophets and do you not believe in the scriptures?
12:38 PM
The Bible?

J
Nor did they have any witnesses. They could have all been delusional.
12:39 PM
For all I know.

A
If you're not open to answers, how would you expect to know the truth. You've already made up your mind
12:39 PM

J
They could have been in an altered state.
12:39 PM
You still have not answered my 1st question and I've answered a ton of yours.

A
So YOU know everything but those prophets that were called by God were apprently delusional...yet somehow God called them to be propehts
12:39 PM

J
I said I don't care about those prophets.
12:40 PM

A
I'm going back to the root of everything. Making a point that prophets HAVE seen God and it's not impossible for Joseph Smith to have seen God.
12:40 PM

J
Big deaL. They made up all kinds of things, like women coming from Adam's rib and Eve talking to a talking snake. And the Earth only being 6,000 y.o.
12:40 PM

A
What would you classify yourself as? Christian or agnostic?
12:40 PM

J
I'm a human being. Homo Sapien Sapien. Do you even know what that name we call ourselves means?
12:41 PM

A
Oh really? That's good. I actually did science and physiology
12:41 PM
Could you have written the Book of Mormon?

J
So tell me what the name we call ourselves means.
12:41 PM

A
Could you have written the Book of Mormon?
12:41 PM

J
You still have not answered my 1st question, again, how do you reconcile the 5 requirements of the Law of the Priesthood with the fact, which the Mormon church now admits, that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young claimed their follower's wives as their own?
12:42 PM

A
I know the Book of Mormon to be true because I've read and prayed about it. I know it has helped me to know God better. If you're sincere to find out the truth, you would've done the same. There are things that I do not fully understand but this much I know...that the Book of Mormon is the word of God and Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know that without a doubt. If you're here for the sake of arguing, I'm afraid I'll end this chat.
12:43 PM
I'll told you my honest opinion and if it doesn't satisfy you, then sorry

J
without answering my 1st question? lame
12:43 PM

A
I did answer it. Emma Smith approved of it
12:43 PM
I gave you that paragraph but you didn't read it

J
I did read it. she didnt' approve of it. that's a lie.
12:44 PM

The chat session has ended.

It seems the Bible can't make up its mind about whether or not you can see God's face and live to tell about it.

Exodus 33:11
“The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend. “
Exodus 33:20
“And he (God) said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.”
Exodus 33:18-23 “ Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name,the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the LORD said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
I guess if you pick and choose scrptures from the Bible, you can justify ANYthing, even murder, child rape and cuckolding your followers by abusing your obscene power to rape your followers wives.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2016 05:53PM by koriwhore.

So the BoM, the only mormon scripture that explicitly condemns polygamy, is the reason JS practiced polygamy? I'm sorry, that just doesn't compute.

I think the conversation might have been more on point if you had stuck to the question about Smith marrying non-virgin women. D&C says you can only take to yourself virgins to practice polygamy. Smith broke that law (among many, many others)


D&C 132:61

the Mishies seem to be holding their weight. Are they getting the upper hand now? hmmmm.

Before I was a Jack-Mormon, I interpreted 132 to be an idealized way to do polygamy, the way it is suppose to be done given ideal mormon heaven/hell surroundings. Of course Joe didn't follow his own revelation at all and flubbed it up pretty good. All the pretty girls (as always) were taken.

There must of have been a lack of virgins at the time? The young teenage girls weren't into older men as much as Joe wanted so he had to resort to married women.

LOL. I would have just stuck to the first question and asked her if Emma approved of Fanny Alger. I don't think she did since she threw out the door and down the stairs. Oliver didn't approve of Miss Alger either. Please answer this. Oh, you never heard of Fanny Alger? Probably should since it's on lds.org

Apparently God and Medusa are one and the same; have you ever seen them in a room together?

Well, you wouldn't have lived to tell, eh?

Anyway, as discussed in another thread, D&C 132 is a massive thorn in TSCC's side, because even if TBM's say "We don't do that any more." and "D&C 132 doesn't give clear instructions for plural marriage", the point is that for a while, as the mormon church was being established, it *WAS* THE LAW OF GOD and GOD'S CHOSEN PROPHET JOSEPH SMITH DIDN'T FOLLOW A DIRECT COMMANDMENT FROM GOD!!

He didnt just, "not follow" the law, he violated it and EVERY law governing marriage, not to mention the sacred vows those 11 violated couples made before God and man, to remain faithful to one another, which is a point Mormons completely ignore. Whenever I make that point, they change the subject and refuse to answer any questions about their own Law and word of God, even if that is their only gd job!