Just airing something that really pisses me off royally: Lately, Dieter Uchtdorf has implored Mormons to stay active, admitting, "To be perfectly frank, there have been times when members or leaders in the church have simply made mistakes." That is a favorite line to pull out these days. You bring up Smith's adultery, and people say things like (and this was a real comment on Facebook), "Yeah, I know he made mistakes, even committed adultery, but he was still the prophet of the Restoration."

That's so much like back in the day when televangelist Jimmy Swaggart was caught with a prostitute, and announced while crying, "I have SINNED!" Then everyone pronounced that he was still a "man of God," and kept supporting him. Mormons howled with laughter over that. A friend of mine was once molested by Jim Bakker, but still felt that Bakker was a "man of God." I, a good Mormon at the time, also had a good laugh over that.

So today we're supposed to recognize that, sure some church leaders committed adultery and other major sins, but they were still prophets, still "men of God." There's hypocrisy enough in that, but even more in the fact that if I were to point out, as a random, individual member, that any one of these men were molesters, murderers, or adulterers, I would be punished and likely be excommunicated.

That they, the Great.Leaders, may choose to "leak" the idea that they are not, in fact, the Holy.Men. with a direct line to God.The.Father, while members are not to utter any such blasphemy, probably has to do with The.Final.Inoculation discussed here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1769609

They add to the shelves, they remove a bit of support structure, they remove from the shelves, remove another bit of structure, add a little more...

It is psycological warfare. We discuss all of their modern-day mechanisms for controlling members, but none of us here suspect a Great.and.Holy.Psych.Department?

Why would they not invest much for and in the most crucial component of member retention. They must control the shelves; commoners shalt not muck up The.Plan.

Forgive my ignorance. I didn't know so much had been written about this very thing. Apparently it rubs a lot of people the wrong way. And of course, undermines their own teachings about how a leader won't lead us astray.

I was thinking the same thing. JS most certainly led the mormons "astray", and BY was more than happy to keep the idea going. And going, and going. There hasn't been one single mormon prophet or apostle that hasn't led the mormon congregation "astray" on some level. The entire church is built on lies, how much more astray can one go than that?

Just because you commit adultery doesn't mean you've lead people astray...

I can see that argument coming next...

But it DOES mean to the common member that they would lose their standing in the church including the priesthood. So the next argument on the other side should be if a leader commits adultery, how can he keep his priesthood and leadership in the church if a layperson would get stripped of THEIR authority? (recommended, ability to give prayers or teach lessons, recommends, etc. etc.) - what makes them different from other members of the church? Are they infallible or not?

They have the 2nd Anointing!!
Therefore guaranteed godhood, regardless of their sins.

Hard to defend someone who leads as JS and BY did and WHAT they did alongside the fraud of the Book of Mormon, BofA, and polygamy.

It isn't just the mistakes the leaders make/made, but the fact that they continue to defend the fraud they perpetuated from the very start in the form of the BofM and BofA.

I find it compelling that they divert the attention to 'the leaders are not infallible' and away from 'the BofM and BofA are fictional accounts'. Put the attention over here so they don't look at what's over there.

Just an observation.

Mormons can defend Joseph Smith's disgusting behavior all they want, but the rest of the world still finds it appalling so Mormon's have shot themselves in the foot, and the ass.

Same principle applies to the followers of all "fallen angels."

The funny thing is, these are all the judgements of men. Why doesn't the Supreme Being ever weigh in? Why is there no sign from God? Same-old/same-old: The main guy is missing in action and no one knows what he really thinks except through the mouths of the "fallen angels."

Couldn't agree more Mike T. When it comes to religious leaders I am not going to follow the "Do as I say, not as I do," crowd. I hold the people I revere to a higher standard. Big fan of Jane Goodall hear. Now she a spiritual giant with listening to.

In America, you can pass tough legislature against drug addicts, then be proven to be one yourself with your maid buying your oxycontin on the black market and still keep your following. Why? Because you know how to say what your followers want to hear. Winner, winner chicken dinner every time.

In the Mormon church, you can commit any bigoted atrocity or sin and your followers will follow undaunted regardless. Why? Because you are telling them exactly what they want to hear: That they are special and going to get the BIG reward.


But, but, but .... our prophet really is the only true prophet. Really. Like for sure. Said by Mormons. Said by the follower of Jim Jones. Said by the fans of Kanye.

The Mormon church likes to speak vaguely of mistakes without telling anyone what the mistakes are. If leaders aren't perfect and they make mistakes, then please, current leaders, list all the mistakes so I know what was actually a mistake and what wasn't. I want them to say it. Until they can detail wrongdoings, I don't buy this argument at all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 11:25AM by want2bx.

agreed, mormons live on a fine line and Uchdorf knows that. They can "never speak ill of the lords anointed." It's a rather ugly situation.

They might as well say: "We can't lead the church astray, and the most wonderful and marvelous part of it is--we get to decide what astray is! (not you)"

The downtown SLC bus fleet must in the shop for suspension repairs quite often.

On the plus side, the LDS leadership has built up quite a nice throwing arm.

You cannot simultaneously have a leader who speaks from the perspective of everyone's thinking having been done for them, and have that same person be capable of making mistakes.

Sam Kinison was busting the TV evangelicals at the time, THat same condemnation readily transfers to MORmON phoniness https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDhAIjF0wQI

The ball sure bounces from one side to the other with the cult.

In one court we have: Follow the prophet. He'll never lead you astray.

And, then the ball is hit to the other side of the court: "I don't know that we teach that," spoken by none other than the Hinkster himself on national television when he was none other than the prophet himself.

The cult needs a new FAIR and HONEST GAME that follows consistent Honest rules.

But, I for one am not going to hold my breath. They rather love the game they play.

What exactly are the mistakes that Dieter Uchtdorf is referring to? He never names any of them.

It sounds to me like his vagueness allows 'mistakes' to mean anything that TBM's find uncomfortable and can use 'mistake' as a convenient excuse, despite other TBM's arguing 'God said so'. So which is it?

I've not heard any TBM refer to anything Joseph Smith did with Fanny Alger,his housemaids, young girls and other men's wives as mistakes.

Is D&C 132 a mistake? What is Dieter referring to?

How extremely damaging this "church" is. They openly teach two completely incompatible doctrine with this.

On the one hand, their leaders can do no wrong, are always experts in any field they chose to speak about and can never be criticized or viewed as being "just a man".

On the other hand when a member learns of their many failures, their weaknesses and bad behavior the member needs to remember they are "just men".

Must be lovely to have it both ways. They can never fail, but if you do see them fail just ignore it because they are just men.

No wonder so many members are in need of mental health assistance through drugs and therapy.