Which is sadder? Fitting in with no chance at expressing yourself sexually or leaving?

Does Robert Kirby agree with his apostle on homosexuals not even existing in his church?

"Most people who don't fit in just give up. It's sad given that they don't have to."
http://www.sltrib.com/home/3585995-155/kirby-judgment-day-shouldnt-come-every

Enquiringly minds like mine want to know.

Is it just "sad" when straight people leave church because they don't want to conform when there is a great guy like Robert Kirby to show them the way to stay?

It isn't sad when gay people, who by Kirby's church's definition of homosexual, can't fit in an be who they are?

When and with whom does Robert Kirby draw the line on letting Mormons give up on their church?

Very good question. I don't think there's an "awe shucks" meme for this but maybe he can conger one up for his next article.

"Took me a long time to become comfortable being myself in church. Sure, I have to accept the consequences that come with it, but it's surprising how many of them turn out to be, well, inconsequential."

Those who have a sexual orientation differing from Kirby's wouldn't find just being themselves to have so few consequences. The church has made that clear.

"Awe shucks, you're gay and I don't know what to say."

Kirby doesn't strike me as someone ever at a loss for words.

"Awe shucks, you're gay. Out the door, I say!"

Or pray your gay away.

They just don't understand that the church loves them and doesn't define them by their sexual orientation. Future profit Bednar said so, So There!

"Awe shucks, you say you're gay? Well, be yourself, just don't be gay."

Email him.

I do. And he usually replies within a day or so. With this latest posts and latest email..it tool.merely hours.

Done. Sent him this.

Dear Mr. Kirby,


Just so you know I'm not a fan. I created a post on an Exmormon site (see below) inferring that your feeling sad at members leaving "the church" because they don't fit in might not include homosexuals.


http://www.sltrib.com/home/3585995-155/kirby-judgment-day-shouldnt-come-every

A forum poster suggested I email you so I am looking for clarification on your views about Mormons who have problems bigger than white shirts and ties at church. Thanks!


Link:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1778156

I'd like to see his response to your email. By the way, I rather enjoyed his piece in the paper and I like his individualism. I rather like his not putting up with unimportant church cult crap. As for standing next to Jesus in a tee shirt and shorts, well I bet He'd welcome me as one of His brothers.

Hi Old Friend,

Give mine and my parents' regards to Irene...

And a note to Elder B:

Kirby and I discussed this one years ago after he told me about being invited to present to a group of gays; said they were pleasant enough, as I recall...

My take: Kirby isn't the problem in the Mormon Church; it's the leadership...

Just laugh, dammit.

SL Cabbie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And a note to Elder B:
>
> Kirby and I discussed this one years ago after he
> told me about being invited to present to a group
> of gays; said they were pleasant enough, as I
> recall...

I recall not being privy to this discussion nor his presentation to the group. Anything out on the Internet to enlighten little old me?

> My take: Kirby isn't the problem in the Mormon
> Church; it's the leadership...

When he is appealing to people who are leaving because they don't fit in and publicly bemoans the woes of this behemoth who incidentally have never been accepting of what he is advocating he is a problem to me.

Are you advocating the leadership lighten up on the ties and color coding too?

> Just laugh, dammit.

I will as long it is at "the church" and not church clown. I prefer to laugh at the church clowns in leadership positions, not the one missing ties and wearing purple shirts with facial hair.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2016 09:42PM by Elder Berry.

Just to get this straight..You're suggesting we take good old Kirby's advice and be ourselves and shrug off any abuse heaped our way and stay in church??? Cuz that doesn't fly with me.

but it was some of his columns back in the 1990s that helped me deal with what was going on in my own life and how I felt about the lds church. I still read him regularly and I am sharing his column with my sister who is just barely hanging on to mormonism.

And, yes, he does reply. He replied to me years ago. My ex thinks he is great, too.

Maybe we'll see him address this issue in a future column because of your e-mail.

As others have mentioned before, maybe he is still mormon so he can write these columns. Some are very damning of mormonism. Shocked he hasn't been ex'd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2016 11:07AM by cl2.

He replied.

"Berry,
I've written a number of columns about LGBT issues in the LDS church. I could send you a few, but in the interest of going directly to your question I'll keep it short. I support gay marriage. I'm an ordained "pastor" and have offered to officiate at gay marriages. I don't care if my bishop or High Priest Group leader is gay. I do not believe that the children of gay couples should be considered apostates. I do not believe in the ecclesiastical discipline of gay people for being in committed and loving relationships. Within the context of the LDS church, I believe gay couples should be held to the same standards as all other couples--commitment, fidelity, love, etc. I recognize my most recent column about fitting in at church didn't address people with issues larger that attire (gays, blacks, Latinos, the poor, women, etc.), but then it's a personal column. I hope this answers your questions.
Kirby"

My response.

Thank you Mr. Kirby for your response. Like I said I'm not a fan of yours so I had no idea where you sided in the question of homosexuals. My bad for not finding those columns.

You are a sometime popular topic on the board I follow and most of the articles people post from you are humorously aimed at The Mormon Church? I don't know. You seem to have a colorful, and I don't just mean in your shirts, relationship with your organized religion. This appeals to people transitioning out of it. Hope your columns help them.


Your column is personal but not in the same way a letter to the editor is. Bemoaning Mormons leaving this organization obviously doesn't appeal to me personally.


I hope you understand.

Seriously, I don't know how this guy can stay in his church if he has watched Bednar go all Iranian President on Mormon homosexuals.

I guess it would be the same as Mormons not supporting the racial exclusion for higher rites of salvation.

Too bad my great grandfather Hugh Brown Brown (not stuttering) didn't have the balls to leave when he couldn't do anything about that one.

being an ordained pastor, I don't know how he has not been exed.

I've been a follower of Robert Kirby for several years and almost always find his column enlightening and entertaining.

The one theme I see in his writing is his practice of 'free-agency'. He takes the facts and situations in his life, applies his morals and ethics and then acts.

He is one that has figured out who he is and how he fits into this world. He knows he doesn't know everything and he'll face new challenges in the future, but he'll weigh the facts and will take the path that is best for him and those nearest him.

I know several people like that outside of Mormonism. I know no one like him in Mormonism.

Kirby portrays himself as a cultural Mormon. His family must have some very deep ties to Mormonism, or he needs to act the part to keep his job at the Tribune. Either way, he often comes off a bit phony. He seems to lack either the integrity or the courage to challenge the power of the mormon church.

You don't find it terribly courageous to wear a different shirt? LOL! That's speaking truth to power, right there!!! Ha!

So, if he doesn't do what you think he should do, then you think he lacks integrity and courage?

Judgementalism. Not been a Mormon since 1981/82. And I still do not like the tendency to judge other people.

He is a journalist not a campaigner.

nwguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He seems to lack either the integrity or
> the courage to challenge the power of the mormon
> church.

Why does he need to challenge the power of the church? He seems to be doing ok with staying in it culturally and not getting kicked out. They seem have no power over him.

Oh yes they do. They let him do nibble at the edges. But the minute he really calls them out, how long do you think he'd last? As long as Kate Kelly? As long as John Dehlin? The September 6?

Some gay couple should take him up on his offer to marry them and then he can write about it. I'd love to see if that had no effect on Bednar and The Bullies.

he is one of those who does more damage to the church while staying in it than if he left it. I don't think there are many who are able to do this, but I think he does. He really did get me thinking back in the 1990s when I first discovered his column.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He really did get me
> thinking back in the 1990s when I first discovered
> his column.

I appreciate that he did for you. I just wonder if it is a net gain or loss on getting members thinking or staying in?