I never served a mission myself.

I served Stake mission, stuff like that, I was a ward missionary, but I never went to the MTC.

I've heard a lot of talk about how much of what you learned in the MTC is high-pressure sales techniques, and I'd like to know more details.

Could you please share hear some of your experiences, and techniques that you learned, things like a commitment pattern, things like that?

Thanks

Commitment Pattern tops them all, in my humble opinion.

Preach My Gospel also taught us how to construct straw arguments which bothered me no end...

kolobian Wrote:
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> Commitment Pattern tops them all, in my humble
> opinion.

Oh, jeezus, I'd almost forgotten the "commitment pattern."
Now you brought up all those bad memories.
Thanks, kolobian! ;-)

After my mission, I never could go into a sales job. My mission experience was that sales was essentially pushing crap on people who didn't want or need it. I know not all sales is like that, but enough of it is to keep me away from the field...

To condition (brain-wash) people into believing that subtle changes in their feelings during the course of a lesson or interaction with the missionary, especially positive feelings, were being created (given to them) by sky daddy.

Most high pressure sales techniques were custom tailored and taught indirectly in the mission field, and depends on the culture of the people in the mission.

For instance, We were given a host of emotionally provoking videos to gradually immerse the victim in a state of peace/happiness. When obvious they were emotionally moved - point out "the spirit" and commit them to baptism. We were told to tell people to recognize that when we left their home, the peace went with us "Brother Brown, did you notice that that peaceful feeling returned when we came back...well you can have that peace when sky daddy gives you the gift of the holy ghostus."

My son dropped out of college for a year and got a job as a door to door vacuum cleaner salesman.

After a few days of training, he came home and put the sales pitch on my wife and me.

At first I tried to me supportive and listen to the spiel, and then I started to chuckle to myself because he had his mother in a tizzy.

She finally got PO'ed and didn't like getting painted into a corner and told our son as much. If he'd had been a stranger and not our son she would have pitched him out the door.

Since then, you don't want to be a door-to-door or a phone solicitor and run into the wife, she'll rip you a new one every time.

I was in the MTC in the late 1990's.

The main method of manipulation in those days was called "the commitment pattern." The idea was that the missionaries challenged an investigator to make and keep a commitment at the end of the lesson.

So the first lesson's commitment was to read a passage from the Book of Mormon, and pray to see if it is "true." The second lesson the missionaries would challenge a person to commit to being baptized on a date certain (WTF?), third lesson go to church etc...

Now if they did not keep the commitment, our teachers instructed us to be devastated and disappointed.

The other element here is to make the person feel like they have something or like they are dishonorable for backing off.

A little tangent: Of course, this is the same game they play with members (think of the endowment). A person commits in the endowment to devote their lives to the LDS Church, and I would bet some people feel like they "gave their word" and can't back out--even if they no longer believe in the LDS Church. Richard Packham's site has a good set of things to consider about this question.

The other manipulative element of the MTC training was teaching about "feeling the spirit." If a person is feeling good that equals the spirit, and if they are not feeling it the answer is always to pray harder, quit sinning etc. It is never legitimate to have a bad feeling, because the person is just not buying it.

In the MTC in '96. This is exactly what was taught for me as well. I remember being really weirded out by it but didn't have the experience to know why.

This was the Ovaltine moment of my mission - discovering that I was just a salesman. My mission was a 2 year sales excursion. First crack in my foundation.

I didn't really pay attention in the MTC, but the "commitment pattern" was a HUGE red flag for me.

We were instructed in the early 80's that you had much better luck with the poor, downtrodden, miserable people than happy people.

I've heard that the mishies get all flushed with excitement when they stumble across people who have just had a loved one die.

I was verbally and physically abused as a child. Wanting desperately to get away from home, I married the wrong guy. He was a gold medalist in the Master Abuser category.

It took nearly two decades with him to become desperate enough to file for divorce and get away. During that time, he had driven me into severe depression, barely able to function.

Less than a week after an extremely ugly divorce, these two adorable mishies appeared on my front porch. They were fun, seemed like nice kids, and as I got to know them better, I began to feel safe around people again. When they invited me to church, THOSE people seemed very nice, too.

They found things about me to compliment and appreciate. Much to my surprise, I had talents that I could contribute. I wrote and delivered talks that were carefully crafted to hit just the right ecclesiastical note, while still being entertaining. I found myself in great demand within - and even beyond - the Stake "talk" circuit.

After feeling worthless for most of my life, I suddenly found myself among people who appreciated me.

If you don't think that feeling is like water to someone crawling through the desert, guess again. It's powerful.

It's hard to say no to someone after accepting a good deed from them.

Mishies also like to make their investigators feel personally responsible for the mishie's feelings of elation or disappointment. Many investigators post saying they don't want to be Mormons but they're afraid of hurting tender mashie feelings.

Part of the commitment pattern was 'resolving concerns'. I hated this as it just seemed like their concerns didn't matter at all, it was all about word games and manipulatin the conversation to ensure a commitment.

This is from a leadership and sales site but it the exact same technique.

Discover the concern – Oftentimes, people will hide their true concerns. If you do not know their true concerns, you are ineffective as a persuader. It is very hard to find the root concern. One tip is to probe to open opportunities for deeper concerns to surface, with questions like, “Other than X concern you mentioned, is there anything else that would keep you from following through with this commitment?” Another tip is to guess at what the concerns might be, if you think you probably know what it is. It can be cathartic to just air the floor with the true concern.
Discuss the concern – Once the true concern is aired, discussing the concern is the easy step.
Help other’s resolve the concern themselves – Master persuaders do not tell someone how to resolve their concerns. Rather, they provide the verbal footwork necessary to dance the person into resolving the concern themselves. As in everything else, this requires tact.

Replace the word 'persuader' with 'missionary' or 'lords representative'

One particular part of the commitment pattern that bugged me was the direction to start your commitment questions with the infamous "Will you..."

"Brother Jones, WILL YOU read the 3 Nephi chapter 11 and pray to know if it is true?"

"Brother Jones, WILL YOU follow the example of our savior by being baptized on March 28?"

It bugged me as a missionary, but it bugged me a whole lot more after I came and some prick EQP or bishopric member tried using that shit on me.

"Brother Loins, will you help with the moving project this Saturday?"

"Brother Loins, will you give a speak in sacrament meeting in 2 weeks?"

I just wanted to punch people in the throat when they did this. It was just so phony and transparent. And I wanted to say, "Cut out the commitment pattern shit. I went on a mission too. I know exactly where you got that line."

I'm not as familiar with "Preach My Gospel". That came out a few years after I'd returned. I don't know how they altered their sales pitch with it. I am sure that it is no less manipulative though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2016 04:27AM by Strength in the Loins.

Served in the early 90s and every mishie was given the official "Missionary Guide." Well, most veterans dumped their unnecessary stuff about 6 months or a year into the field (they kept their standard works and discussions/flip charts). We were supposed to practice them at district and zone mtgs, but a lot of those mtgs were really bitch and moan sessions. Only a few greenies or straight arrows would show up with them. If the mtg was at the stake center that had a BB court, then bring p day clothes!

Well, word came down from the AP's that our MP wanted to observe our zone during our zone mtg. The ZLs and DLs literally shit their pants as none of them had the Missionary Guide and we were supposed to role play different lessons.

Since I had been the junior companion to 3 going home elders that were finishing up their missions, I crazily collected stuff that they no longer wanted. So guess who had an extra 5 copies?

I rented each copy for $10 to all my "inspired" leaders so they could fool the MP. It was the best money ($50)I ever made while serving.

We were taught to never ask an investigator a question to which he could answer "No." Rather, ask questions which forces him to choose between two positives. Such as, "Mr. Brown, would you like us to come by Tuesday at six, or Thursday at seven?"

I became good enough at this technique that when I was just a coupla months away from going home, we met this very nice middle-aged lady who seemed very receptive to us. During our 2nd or 3rd meeting with her, I asked her "Would you like us to teach you about our church first, or would you like to go ahead and join up and learn about it afterwards?" To my shock, she replied that she'd like to go ahead and join. She was just a nice, lonely lady who wanted to be part of a social group. She was the only investigator whom I took from tracting her out to teaching her all the discussions and baptizing her.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2016 09:11PM by randyj.

My brother was taught all of these techniques












when he got a job as a used car salesman.

In the mid 1980s we hung out on the streets, asking People to take a "survey." Just another approach at "building relationships of trust", etc.

Didn't seem to be useful at all.