Now this is a local thing, where my sis lives. She lives in Ann Arbor, and has a son who is 14 and autistic, high functioning. Is he perfect? No. But she has been battling tscc to be able to bring him to church.

but the biggest thing is they won't let him get baptized. She is heart broken, and she has tried education, etc. She has gone through to the sp, but he is part of thhe problem. So is her ex fil who lives local, but in a different ward.

Well, last night they were at a b-day party at the church (for the bishop I guess) and my nephew wanted to hang with the guys his agge, but they all ignore him. Then my sis met 3 other kids with autism who are the Samish age, teens, and they are all baptized and hold the priesthood. She doesn't understand why her son can't be the same, as they are on similar levels.

She wrote an emotional letter to the bishop describing this. There are peple in the ward who also give her crap.

She is single,, disabled, with her son and my older sister, who is mentally challenged. She feels like she is a no one in this ward and area, where poepole are very affluent and educated. No matter that she almost got her degree from the u of m before she had a brain tumor. No matter that she is a very talented musician who has played for DSO and everywhere else in MI. Since her son was born and she found out about the tumor and wen t from there she has had to quit all this.

So, she knows what I think. I t makes me so angry to hear her tears about the stupid fucking church. She said if this does not happen then she will have to leave the church.

Oh, and I forgot to say that this has had detrimental effects on her son. He has been suicidal. He told her after sunday he was going to kill himself. Well, Monday he drank peroxide. Now, he doesn't have access to the internet, so he would not have known that wouldn't kill him. He could have grabbed drain cleaner or toilet bowl cleaner. or anything else.

She only figured it out cause he was vomiting. He is still suicidal, but the hospital sent him home anyway. So she is terrified.

So, I told her to go above their heads. I wish I knew what I could do to help her. Her kid knows right from wrong and is very much as responsible as any 8 year old, and should be able to be baptized. He has been treated poorly from a toddler, isolated, ostracized, etc. She has to be by his side every second. She has to go to boy scout camp so he can go. They exclude him.

She met the paretns of these other kids, and started talking to them, and they were horrified by this. They are in different wards though, and because of who is in those wards it would not be feasible to go to those wards. But one father, who has a somewhat prestigious position within the tscc, is going to advocate for her and her son. He is well respected, etc.

Her son asked her if he could be baptized a Mormon and a catholic. I laughed. There are so many other organizations out there that would be totally willing to work with him.

It just makes me sick. He hasn't hurt anyone, or went crazy, etc. So, I think she should just get out. Let those who gave her shit feel bad about losing two members. Of course they will just say "she was offended". Amen. The end. In the name of Jesus Christ of latter day saints. Fuck.

Honestly, if the Mormons won't baptize him she should just find a church that will. And I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of them.

Agreed. I have said this many times, and said it again today. But he has grown up in TSCC, and it's been her church for 44 years. He thinks he has "friends" there, but not really.

I hope she gets it. So much pain.

I know very little about the Mormon offshoots, but the little I have read over the years seems to indicate that some of them are less rigid than is the mainstream LDS church (more gay acceptance...women in the priesthood...at least some real intellectuals, etc.).

If he wants to be baptized Mormon, would this be a viable option???

Is there a local RLDS congregation available if she intends to go down the Mormon route? If she is not picky, I would also like to add my vote to any other Christian church.

I do not recall Jesus ever telling his disciples to discriminate over a disability. These actions just further isolate the LDS from the rest of the world.

No offense, but doesn't the kid have enough challenges? If he's highly autistic, he has a pretty good chance of putting the pieces together & seeing through the BS better than most adults. This may be a blessing in disguise.

Hi Jonny, I'm very sorry that your family is going through this! In many churches, baptism is viewed as a sacramental sign of
God's love. I was baptized first as an infant, then as an adult by immersion as a Mormon.

As an infant, it was explained that the water was symbolic of the covenant of love through Jesus. As a Mormon, it was that I had chosen Jesus and the immersion in water, by proper priesthood authority, washed me clean of my sins.

When I removed my name from Mormonism I acknowledged that my LDS baptism, priesthood, and sealings were null and void. In order to become part of Mormonism in the future, I would have to be rebaptized (getting my sins cleaned again).

Although I'm not a Catholic, I recently went to Mass with a friend. In the priest's hominy he explained that nothing could ever separate one from the love of God. He also explained that even the (Catholic) church could not undo baptism--one could sin, remove one's name from the Catholic Church, be excommunicated, etc.; but nothing separates us from God's love as symbolized by baptism.

I echo Summer's comment. Find a loving church that will baptize your nephew in the name of love, if that's what your family desires. Blessings and peace. Boner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2016 06:47PM by byuboner.

It might be time to ask your sister why she insists on torturing her son this way. The church doesn't want him, and has made that so clear he's suicidal. She keeps trying to force him on the church, and the church keeps making it clear they intend to reject him, no matter how much it hurts him. When is your sister going to take the ward at its word and stop letting them hurt her son over and over? This is all about her trying to make a point.

It reminds me of a friend of mine who was dating a guy for quite a while. My friend had a preteen daughter whom her boyfriend did not like or accept. My friend ran interference between them; then finally came to terms with the fact that her boyfriend was not a nice guy, and her daughter was being hurt because my friend couldn't let him go. She finally woke up and dumped him. She vowed that she'd never put her daughter through that again. Now she's got a nice boyfriend who treats her daughter well, like a normal adult--not a sick one--would.

I think your sister's got to make a choice, stick with these vile, non-people or protect her son, finding him a social group who doesn't demonstrate they hate him.

Excellent advice. It is clear that the church wants neither her nor her children.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2016 11:04PM by annieg.

The Unitarians would treat him nicely.

not enough tithing potential.

My oldest son who is six, also with ASD-non verbal, was treated like a he was a nuisance. It's sad because I thought that tscc would be the one place where my sweet boy would be accepted for his differences. I am so glad to have resigned and I would encourage your sister to do so as well.

This is very strange treatment, in my experience. I grew up in a pretty affluent ward, and I knew many, many autistic and asperger kids- all on different ends of the spectrum, from essentially nonverbal to high functioning, hardly able to tell- and they were all baptized. However, I did know of a child with Downs Syndrome who wasn't baptized. She had no speech, just some guttural language with a few words her parents could understand. She really had no concept of right or wrong, and no- or extremely limited- understanding of what her actions meant, at least based on my observation, and what he adoptive father would tell me about her.

I also have autistic and asperger relatives who have ALL been baptized. There is a seriously asshole bishop or stake president involved here who has some kind of strange bias against those with autism, because this is not normal treatment.He is aware enough of his discrimination to drive him to suicidal ideation, he is aware enough of his choices to be baptized.

I didn't mean to sound cold or pragmatic about the situation, but just from that point of view, there is no way they could justify not baptizing him. I have known and been friends with high functioning Asperger's and Autistics and I guarantee you they would not like the thought of people thinking they were incapable of being responsible for their actions, which iswhat the lack of necessity for baptism would have to imply, right? 'oh, you don't know right from wrong, so your perfect and the atonement covers you anyway.'

Just another reason the church is a big bag of horseshit.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2016 02:54AM by midwestanon.

Wow, that must have been a very low functioning kid with Down's as most can read and write, have relationships/marry, go to school, hold jobs, etc. Many live alone. I wonder if, because she was adopted, there were issues in her past or trauma related to the adoption that prevented her from developing at a normal pace.

With Down's the lower range of IQ's is not well publicized, probably to dispel stereotypes and reduce the effect of negative expectations. Just like anyone, it varies according to opportunities to learn. "Intellectual disability was mild in 23 (19%), moderate in 36 (30%), severe in 40 (33%) and profound in 22 (18%) persons evaluated (n=121)." http://www.down-syndrome.org/reports/313/ In the US, 40% are in the mildly mentally handicapped range.

Just like in the normal population, because of multivariate influences, the IQ distribution is a bell curve, so, yes, there are Down's people with severe to profound handicaps. Average is 50, so there are plenty who are as low as the child described.

Realistically speaking, more profoundly disabled kids with Down's are also simply less likely to have lives as public as others, and are rarer, as you say--most are in the middle range.

It's more abusive to members like your sister and her son than to most.

Many times I've read about posters who compare leaving Mormonism with leaving a bad marriage or cutting off a toxic parent. It's difficult but must be done before anyone can heal and find a healthier path in life.

Somehow your sister needs to break the bonds of this bad relationship. The Mormon church is hurting her and her child, but she feels dependent on it for love and support which isn't forthcoming and likely never never happen.

Those families with autistic children who are treated well might fit the Mormon prototype in other ways that your sister doesn't. It isn't her fault just like it isn't an infant's fault if a mother rejects it because of her own inadequacies.

Your little nephew seems to be reacting to how your sister feels as much as he is reacting to the insult of not being allowed baptism. Somehow your sister needs to disengage from worrying about staying in a situation that isn't working. She might achieve a baptism for her child, but it still won't work for her. Just like a mother might giving some care to an infant she doesn't like but the situation remains toxic for both of them.

Thankfully, no one must stay in a church forever. They can leave. They can find better churches or not go to any church ever.

Mormons are indoctrinated to think they must never leave no matter what. I know it was a turning point for me to realize I did not have to be a Mormon, so I left.

Your sister must do this for her own sake and for her child. Staying in a toxic situation is never a good option.

Going to a reformed Mormon church is also not a good option. That's like giving the Mormon church a thumbs up up but settling for second best.

A clean break is necessary, either a totally different church or none at all. If your sister is Christian, there are many churches that would be more Christian than the Mormons, but she should stay away from extremist evangelical organizations which can be as bad as LDS. Perhaps she'd like Methodist or one of the less controlling Baptist or Community churches.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2016 07:38AM by Cheryl.

Jonny, my children were baptized RLDS after we left Mormonism during the nineties. I don't believe they have anywhere near the same restrictions as the Mormon church does on who can get baptized. They're also more loving as a church community.

Now they call themselves Community of Christ to make more of a break with the name association of RLDS and LDS. But they wouldn't turn away your nephew for baptism I don't believe.

Here's a link for the Ann Arbor CoC your sister could try calling there to see what their restrictions are for baptizing children.

http://chi.lunariffic.com/~aacof0/

We no longer worship there and haven't for a good long time. It was a welcome respite nonetheless from Mormonism. Our pastor was a woman, and gays can hold the priesthood there and are entitled to full membership status as are women.

This makes me feel ill.

"She feels like she is a no one in this ward and area, where people are very affluent and educated."

I had a TBM friend who lived in Ann Arbor also. He was dirt poor and had an adopted son who was brilliant but really messed up emotionally. They got treated like outcasts.

This is a reflection on the church not the people it typecasts.

It would also contribute to emotional malaise of the adopted son, and his father.

Where I worship we have a severely autistic woman who is in her own little world. She is granted full membership status and not treated differently for being different.

She ignores everybody, but smiles throughout the worship service and does seem to pay attention to what's being said, although it doesn't seem to register with her. It's the one time of the week she gets to come out of her shell by going to worship service.

A taxi brings her, and takes her home. She's as welcome as anyone else is, and not treated like an outcast or outsider.

Isn't that what worship is meant for? Not just to focus on prayers and liturgy, but to be inclusive of all people who wish to participate?

I can see where a problem might occur if a child or adult behaves inappropriately or is disrespectful of others in a fellowship environment. But to label someone just because they're autistic is another way the LDS church practices bigotry. Autistic people will never measure up, be productive, or tithe payers.

They just aren't good enough for the morg.

Same for retarded, semi-retarded, or Down's Syndrome kids. They're denied baptism and full membership rights because they lack the ability to know right from wrong. It's total BS.

Bigotry never was tolerance.

I heard on the radio this week that app 1 in every 68 people are born with autism today, in America. That's a shockingly high number. We're all affected by someone in our surroundings who suffers with or is related to someone having autism.

That is so sad and crazy! Why the hell wont they let him get baptized?!?! I'm autistic too and I can really relate although they did let me get baptized. That's so dumb they wont let him I mean what the hell?!! I also have had problems with being left out at church and its funny my tbm family members talk about how much more loving and accepting Mormons are then everyone else but then they completely ignore and isolate me (they don't even make room for me to eat at the same table as them at family gatherings) and my non lds family members are much nicer to me and way more accepting than my lds family go figure

Help your sister to find a nice mainline church with a teen program. She doesn't have to join the church for her son to participate in the teen program. He doesn't have to join that church either.

She can visit and help out at the activities until she sees if he is enjoying it. Many times, the leaders are trained in working with young people.

If she or he doesn't like one church or program, they can shop around until they see the one they like. Also, if it is in the area of the school he attends, he may already know some of the kids.

Many times the parents of the teens don't even attend that church and it is OK. I have seen autistic/aspergers kids be welcomed and supported by caring adults and accepting teens.

What the hell ?! They won't let this sweet 14 yr old kid be baptized because of autism ?!! THAT would be so IT for me. They don't want my child being baptized due to that , then NONE , I repeat: NONE of my family would have ANYTHING to do with this church.

What the hell ever happened to " suffer the little children to come unto me , for THEIRS is the Kingdom of Heaven" ( Or the Kingdom of God ---whatever. )

I'd be standing up in the VERY next testimony mtg & saying, to the whole freakin' ward how they wouldn't let me child be baptized due to a physical condition. I'd end it by telling everyone that the church must not be true after all & the leaders can go to HELLLLL !!! ( all over the podium, by the way.)

F'ck'em all. I apologize for my language~~~sorta. This just REALLY hurts my heart. Grrrrrrrr !!!! This is so darned WRONG !!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2016 06:47AM by nitrameequc.

I am so sorry for them. The treatment that we received from an Ann Arbor ward was the final breaking point for us going to church. It was only after we stopped going that I was open to the true history and evilness of the church. However, I can only imagine the pain that she is going through. It really angers me. So much for being "Christlike".

Well as heartless as all of that was, I keep thinking how he and all the rest of us are perfectly fine just the way we are, and there's no reason anyone needs to be dunked in water to wash so-called sins away. Love your flawed self, make the most of each day and do what you can to help make it a nice life for others around you.

seekyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well as heartless as all of that was, I keep
> thinking how he and all the rest of us are
> perfectly fine just the way we are, and there's no
> reason anyone needs to be dunked in water to wash
> so-called sins away. Love your flawed self, make
> the most of each day and do what you can to help
> make it a nice life for others around you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love this. Empowering. Well said. Thank you !!

According to your story, there are some other autistic children in different wards that your sister knows who have been baptized and accepted into the LDS church; therefore, the issue appears to be related only to this particular LDS ward, at least in the Ann Arbor area. In addition, the treatment your nephew is receiving places your sister and her son in the dead center of a brewing legal conflict with major ramafications; namely, are houses of worship, because of their status as religious institutions, immune to the requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) even though they are open to the general public? With this in mind, I think your sister should seek legal counsel from either a disability rights organization or the ACLU before doing anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2016 08:11AM by blindguy.

This cult only has power if you give it power. I say, take your power back and the mom could baptize the kid herself, in the bathtub or in some local body of water (river, lake, ocean, whathaveyou). All y'all don't need a man, or a priesthood holder, or even a church official. If the kid is suicidal because he wants to be baptized, then FFS, baptize him. Make up your own rules, your own ritual, or if you insist on all this fairy tale nonsense, find a nice Episcopal church or a UU church, or pretty much anything but a mormon church.

The ONLY person this matters to is the kid.