I;m a Gentile, I've never read the Book of Mormon

My question, are horse's mentioned in the Book of Mormon, if so the Book is a fraud since horse's weren't in American at that time

Yes indeed, along with elephants, swords, steel, sheep, and a plethora of other things that weren't in the Americas at the time.

I like how as they explored the new land, they came across so many domesticated animals just out and about in the wilderness: cow, ox, ass, horse, goat AND wild goat. (Wouldn't ALL the goats be wild goats?)

And then he segues right into the metallurgy. So they've just landed in the new world and right off the bat they find "all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper." So was all this ore just laying around or did they really start a mining operation while on their first journey into the wilderness?

And it used to be that you were asked to swallow the fable that the Native Americans waving "Hello!" to Columbus and Cortez were direct descendants of the House of Israel whose countenances were altered to "ugly" brown by the very ghawd who chose the loins of Abraham to father ghawds own chosen people.

A civilization on the order of a million people that divides into two armies that fight each other to the death, and the last two men fighting are the army leaders. With steel swords and armor (ancient steel?) but no bones or swords or armor ever found.

Wooden submarines that are unfeasible by any stretch of the imagination. Wood simply can't support the physics. Let alone the impossibility of the narrative.

The story of Laban is at the edge of feasibility, even if Nephi had a razor sharp samurai sword and three hands.

The only way these impossible things could be in the BoM is that the stories were made up.

Correction: Ether 15:2 mentions that nearly 2 million had been killed by that point, which was BEFORE the Jaredites spent 4 years gathering the rest of the population for the final battle of extermination.

Seriously? still bringing up this trite argument?

They're not horses, they're Tapirs.

http://www.standard.net/Faith/2016/03/11/Grizzly-bear-truth-versus-teddy-bear-truth-trips-up-Mormonism#comment-2567135120

I’ve never read a better description of your hero Tapir-Boy than this:

“Danny Peterson is an anti-truth propagandist, a paid professional liar, in the service of a proven con man, holy Joe Smith. Danny gets paid beaucoup bucks by his cult to create a mirage of “plausibility” so that those sheeple will keep writing those tithing checks to the corporation despite the mountain of evidence that demonstrates that Mormonism is a fraud. I don’t think Petey does it only for the bucks though, he’s an attention whore; an old white fat male Mormon narrow-minded, spiteful, vindictive, rude, judgmental, misogynistic, homophobic, racist piece of sh!t. May he rot in his non-existent Mormon hell.”

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2016/03/a-divisive-campaign-of-unprecedented-nastiness.html#comment-2578255102

And for those wanting to watch an Easter skewering of an apologist, you can take a look at how I've been dealing with some excess road rage by flattening one of DCP's cronies in the ol' Internet police interceptor. I don't want to start a board war, but then again, this site appears to be slowing down quite a bit, and maybe a little holiday barbecue or two will draw some from their Facebook frolicking (which I don't do, BTW).

Your brain on Mormonism, folks: This yayhoo first tried to claim Joseph Smith didn't have sex with his plural wives (About which Eliza R. Snow once said to someone making that claim: "I thought you knew Joseph better than that"), and when we pointed about that "bigamy was against the law" (Apparently there were no laws against sexual abuse of minors back then, at least that's what the apologists claim. Fact checking welcome), he countered with this howler:

>Problem; it's not Bigamy if Emma knew about the other wives, and again JS did not commit adultery.

I suggested he not apply to law school, and he grumbled about my not posting under my real name.

Nice work Cabbie. You should refer him to the recent Church essay on plural marriage where it mentions that monogamy was the only legal form of marriage at the time.

Those chest-puffing bullies get absolutely furious when they can't breach your anonymity. I've seen it in more academic contexts as well.

Although this guy doesn't sound very effective as a bully, and neither does Dan Peterson by the way, they still tend to enjoy taking their enemies' names in vain to get some of that divine anger working against us. It's important to deprive them of the feelings of power and comfort they derive from personal denunciation. Once their rewards are few and far between, they could very well give up their apologetic activities.

I just love that 12-year-old kid with the massive muscles on Lehi's ship. Arms of steel, in fact, fit for riding a horse or even an elephant...

Q: How did they mistake a tapir for a pony?

A: The tapir had a sore throat and was a little hoarse.

Problem solved.

Just as I thought, the whole Church is a Fraud

Why do so many intelligent people go for the Fraud ?

Some of us are born into it and spoonfed the koolaid from a very young age. It isn't so much our fault as it is the leadership that keeps the con in the dark.

For others not born into it, it is buying a product that they think is one thing and aren't told about all the other "functions" of the product.

Not just horses, but chariots for them to pull as well, even though they didn't use wheels.

Maybe the horses were large rabbits. Didn't you see Radagast's sleigh in The Hobbit?

Of course, and they were just as studly as everybody else, including teenagers:

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/gospel-library/manual/396364.jpg

Horse's ass in the BOM?

Mormons have gone to great length to muddy the waters on
pre-Columbian horses. Here's Huge Niblet going at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwi0L-mwn4M

And then I found myself in need of a "loud laughter fix."

I am wondering, Baura, in the interest of actual history if the Nibster was perhaps the "original archetype" for our beloved "World's Greatest Authority," aka Professor Irwin Corey...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlLmYVCzKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXFTG893daM

Resurrection Update: Hugh Nibley is still dead, and to the best of my knowledge, Professor Corey is still around at what, 101?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2016 03:46PM by SL Cabbie.

They both wore sneakers.

And, what questioners of the Book of Mormon's horses, steel, lack of bones and other evidence are often told is the following:

God's way are mysterious. In his own time we will be given the answers.

This gives them the upper hand over and over and over. Does not matter what facts or what questions you give them, this excuse is right there on the tip of their tongues.

That is typical, and a good reason to be careful how we phrase the argument. The problem for the BoM is NOT a lack of evidence. The real problem is that the BoM describes an Iron Age, beast of burden/plow agriculture-based civilization that bears no resemblance to what we KNOW about ancient American civilizations. Moreover, the BoM peoples do fit comfortably amid the misconceptions held by early 19th Century Americans, which were subsequently falsified by the past 180+ years of scientific study.

In other words, the BoM was a crude attempt to confirm the myths and legends circulating at that place and time, and never actually offered any ground-breaking new information that would have needed/expected new discoveries for confirmation. Instead, new discoveries and information have clearly overturned those earlier myths, legends, and misconceptions.

"In other words, the BoM was a crude attempt to confirm the myths and legends circulating at that place and time."

That is something I think about when people marvel at the idea of Joseph Smith having written it. All the teachings in it were things that various people of that time were already preaching. People were giving sermons out in public on these topics and writing pamphlets and books. These were not new, earth-shattering ideas.

Okay, let's see... the golden plates were delivered by a resurrected human, then translated with a rock in a hat... and you're asking about horses?

Where is the infrastructure to support the horses?

We need bridles, saddles, stirrups, hair brushes, ropes etc.

Where are the barns, corrals and fences?

Where are the grains and fodder?

Are there wagons, carts, roads etc.

How about art? Pictures, carvings, toys, jewelry.