So on this day in history Joseph Smith was having to fess up about using his seer stone to rip off people.

It's very interesting reading for any of you haven't read about it before.

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech4.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2016 09:14PM by seekyr.

I told my TBM DW about this once to support my claim that Joe was (at one time, at least) a confessed con man. She insisted it was either an anti-mormon lie or Joe was coerced into his testimony in court.

Well, she probably wouldn't even read the official court document, but at least you can say that the event is in our legal records, so it is a historical fact. Now why Smith would have been coerced I can't imagine, and reading the transcript certainly gives no hint of that. He was very young, not yet a professed prophet or anything, pretty much a nobody at that point in time. The BoM hadn't been published yet. They didn't fine him I don't think, and didn't even do anything to him except tell him to leave the area. But still, it's an uncomfortable truth, so not surprising that a TBM would dismiss it outright.

My wife frequently uses experiences from her life as proof that Joe (and mormons in general) was unfairly persecuted.

For example, one of DW's sons pleaded no contest for something that he didn't do to avoid being charged, and possibly convicted, of a greater charge. Therefore, Joe probably made a deal with the judge to plead guilty to a lesser charge to avoid a greater one.

Another example is that DW's RM ex spread false rumors about her after their divorce; therefore, Joe must be a victim of his enemies spreading false rumors about him.

Well it sounds like your wife has had some very unhappy experiences in her life and it's too bad she had to go through that. Your loving support is the most important thing now.

My nevermo husband was very accepting of me over the years as my beliefs transitioned. If I wanted to go to church, fine. He'd never say anything negative about it. But he never knew me in my TBM days. By the time we met, I already was mostly out of the church and so I wasn't away all the time at church functions or talking church talk all the time.

My husband didn't really know much about the LDS church or any details about church history, but since he's atheist, those details were of no consequence. But I was respectful of HIM as well and didn't try to make him come with me to church or do anything against HIS beliefs. I really honor him for his patience and acceptance. It's like he waited for me.

surprenant Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My wife frequently uses experiences from her life
> as proof that Joe (and mormons in general) was
> unfairly persecuted.
>
> For example, one of DW's sons pleaded no contest
> for something that he didn't do to avoid being
> charged, and possibly convicted, of a greater
> charge. Therefore, Joe probably made a deal with
> the judge to plead guilty to a lesser charge to
> avoid a greater one.
>
> Another example is that DW's RM ex spread false
> rumors about her after their divorce; therefore,
> Joe must be a victim of his enemies spreading
> false rumors about him.


I'm curious. is your wife not concerned about what the plea-bargaining was about? What was the greater charge? Something even more embarrassing to TSCC? Or, is that some thing to put on the shelf?

No, she's not concerned. For her it's enough that she can justify in her own mind that there is a possibility that Joseph Smith was an innocent victim of persecution. The details are unimportant and would only ruin the narrative: "I wasn't there, and neither were you! We don't know for sure what really led to his confession."

It wouldn't make any sense that people would be trying to persecute him at that time. He was a nobody. There was no Book of Mormon. He wasn't preaching or making any claims to be a prophet. He had done nothing to draw attention or hatred toward himself, well, except for the people he was ripping off. He was just a young man, poor, and trying to make some easy money.

But to a TBM, I suppose once the "persecution paint" has been so heavily applied for so many years, it may be very difficult to chip it off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2016 10:05AM by seekyr.

I liked Prosessor Hill's statement that even if JS was involved in glass looking, it doesn't make him a religious fraud. That is true. But using rocks to find treasure, and being found guilty in a court of law of fraud for such endeavors, make him highly suspect of fraud when using the same method in any other ventures. This explains why TSCC has been hesitant to come clean about the rock in the hat story.

Exactly! Too close for comfort, which is why I'm SURE they've tried to suppress it all these years.

But if they are now accepting the rock as being part of the translation process, shouldn't it be sort of revered now as a holy relic? Like, THIS IS THE ACTUAL STONE THAT WAS USED TO TRANSLATE THE BOOK OF MORMON. It's the only relic of that time that exists (since God took or hid all the other cool stuff) and yet it's barely spoken of or displayed. I suppose it's problematic that it didn't make it into the final versions of the BoM story. So it's sort of hard to bring it back now.

Well, they can start including it in the materials taught to the children so they can get them accustomed to it from a young age.

fascinating, thank you!