I live in Utah and my Mom lives in the Midwest. Mom was diagnosed with cancer and has been going through chemo since the first of the year. She's actually doing well. She lost her hair and the chemo really wipes her out. But she hasn't been throwing up, and she still has a good appetite.

I talked to her last night and she was totally exhausted. She said it was because her visiting teachers showed up yesterday morning and stayed for an hour and a half.

(She was telling me they told her the story of the Catholic priest who thought Mormons did a better job of worshipping Jesus, how Mormon hymns were more about Jesus, and how the priest wanted to be Mormon but would lose his job. I held my tongue and didn't tell her the story was total BS. I came close to asking about the hymns - if they were such good songs about Jesus how come the mormons sang them like mumbled funeral dirges. But I held back.)

Anyway, I talked to my brother after talking to my Mom. He told me the visiting teachers have done that before, staying way too long and exhausting my Mom. But he seemed pretty passive about the whole situation, figuring when Mom had finally had enough she'd say something to the VTs about them staying far too long.

So my question is, should I call Mom's bishop and tell him to call off his hounds? (Of course I'd be much more diplomatic and put it much nicer than that.) Or should I just mind my own business and let Mom deal with them on her own? I'm really upset about this. Mom barely has enough strength to take a shower in the morning. And yet her assigned friends think they're doing her a favor by exhausting her with their inappropriately long visits. She was flat on her back for the rest of the day after they left, and she sounded horrible last night.

I'll be leaving in a few days to spend a couple of weeks with her while she goes through her next round of chemo. And if the VTs show up while I'm there I'll give them 5 or 10 minutes before they get the bum's rush out the door! When my Dad was alive he was very protective of Mom, and he wouldn't have put up with this crap.

Yes, I would write or call her bishop. I would tell him that a 10-minute visit is all your mom can handle. I hope that she continues to recover well.

Mormons can be oblivious to their own lack of boundaries.
This is especially evident when visiting the sick. Clueless.

So it is up to you to take charge by NOT allowing them to visit. They can send a nice floral bouquet to her, or a note, or something for you (as caregiver) BUT definitely no visits.

You can preemptively call them when you arrive to let them know what YOU expect from them and what your mother NEEDS from them (no visits at this time).

Calling a bishop gives him authority which I've always stayed away from in times like this (or any other times).

Bishop shouldn't visit either. He can send a note as well.

Keep the boundaries and when your visit is over maybe they will honor them, or get a call from you at very inappropriate times, middle of the night comes to mind, to let them know they have stepped over the medical boundary for your mom.

I hope the best for her and the strength for you to help her through this time. Don't let her see your anger or it will not allow her to rest mentally, which she needs just as much at this time. My thoughts will be with you both.

Funny how they can just sit on their asses while she's going through this and not lift a fucking finger to help her.

First of all, why don't you ask your mom what she would like to
see happen, maybe she doesn't mind the visits.And then go from
there.

Obviously they have no ability to put themselves in her shoes
and figure out what they could do to help her.

If your mom doesn't like them comming over and taking so much
time when she could be resting, and she is afraid to tell them
or what ever, you tell them to either stop comming during this
time or keep their visits to a minimum of twenty minutes.

If you or she need an excuse to give them you could say that
her doctor advises her that because of her fragile health
they should not come over because she might get sick from
whatever germs they are carrying .

Good luck.

A person going through chemo has a severely compromised immune system, so the fewer "free-range" germs they are exposed to, the better.

And she does not need to be overtired.

It would be good if OP delivered this message. It would be even better if Mom herself did so, if that's how she feels.

I'd like to know from someone who knows:

Are HTs/VTs just as aggressive towards their intended targets in a low-Mo or even non-Mormon place, particularly in the Midwest, as they are in Utah? Perhaps even more so, due to TBMs there feeling like fish out of water, and needing to be more obnoxious in these things in order to get by?

You know, maybe a good idea is to schedule a HT/VT appointment, but secretly ask a pastor or priest from a nearby church to attend the proceedings in your home, just to make you feel less vulnerable to these killer-bee-like TBMs.

We live in the East in a county that has two chapels, each with two wards I think. I haven't gone in years, so can't say for sure. But I don't run into LDS people often, unless I've just lost the ability to detect "the glow" (sheesh!) - so I don't feel threatened or smothered by the LDS church around here.

But I had a husband & wife HT/VT for several years. They were very nice and we always enjoyed their company, though not the lessons. I just never could quite bring myself to ask them not to come anymore AS HT/VT.

When I finally FINALLY formally quit the church this past year, I knew that would end the visits, so I called them to give them the whys and wherefores, before they found out otherwise. They were very nice about it, no drama, no hassle at all and we said we'd still value their friendship and hoped we could still visit on occasion. And that was fine with them. In fact, we all went to a free concert nearby this past week.

So it really depends on the area and the individual people, I'm sure.

I live in the south.

I was inactive when my cancer hit, but the bishop and relief society president were aware of it.

At NO TIME did I get a phone call, asking if I needed anything.

At NO TIME did I get a visit from a VT, or a home teacher, or a member of the bishopric.

I - and the needs of my family - were ignored during our time of great need.

We were instructed to only spend a few minutes in our VT visits. That's always been the prescribed instruction. These VT's are out of order staying so long.

If it was my family member, I'd call the bishop and tell him that the VT's need to call, make an appt for 10 to 15 minutes at the maximum and not ever drop in. I'd explain that your relative is in cancer treatment and the long visits are not helping her recovery.

It's good you'll be there soon to enforce the appropriate time for a visit and the length.

When I left the LDS Church I made it clear that one: they must call and make an appt. and two: no message. (My husband knew the "gospel" as well or better than the VT's anyhow!). And they complied. We had a couple of strange incidents but for the most part, it went well.

I would ask your mother's doctor for advice. Most likely he will say your mother should not be disturbed in any way that would tire her as she is building up strength for the next round.

The relay the information from the doctor to both the bishop and the VT's.

blueorchid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would ask your mother's doctor for advice. Most
> likely he will say your mother should not be
> disturbed in any way that would tire her as she is
> building up strength for the next round.
>
> The relay the information from the doctor to both
> the bishop and the VT's.


I was going to mention this but forgot. This is an excellent idea.

Another consideration is your mom's immune system; she is quite vulnerable to germs and nasties while undergoing chemo. I would tell these people that they are welcome to visit but only if they:

1.) Only stay 10 minutes tops;
2.) Wear masks; and
3.) Wash their hands thoroughly before they go in to see her.

You could keep a bottle of hand sanitizer by the front door. They can't possibly object to that, can they???

[Edited for Typos Etc.]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2016 03:31PM by Doxi.

Doxi
I applaud this as a standard for anyone who is ill! Terrific!!

The one place my doctor told me to keep a child with health problems/before and after surgery, etc. away from ...was.... CHURCH! And, he insisted on NO handshaking!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2016 04:14PM by SusieQ#1.

Mom has decided she's not going to church until she's done with chemo and her immune system has recovered. Frankly I was a bit surprised she'd do that, but very proud of her. And agree 100%. I can think of few places that would have more germs than among a large group of people who may or may not be cleaning the toilets properly.

The V.T.'s were just passing on the Faith Promoting Story of the day. It was on the church website and noted throughout FB posts among TBMs. I hate when they use "dead people's" obituaries to build up their faith, when there's no way the person can answer or deny or explain their real intention, meaning or what was omitted.

Sad, sad excuse of humans who pass on ridiculous stories.
http://www.sltrib.com/lifestyle/faith/3640037-155/mormon-scholars-laud-late-catholic-thinker

Talk to your Mom first. If she's too polite to say something to the VT's, then go head and say something. If they visit when you're there, ask them to help your Mom. That might get rid of them quickly.

"Hi!! Thanks so much for stopping by!! As you know, Mom isn't feeling her best. I am only here for a few days, so it is great that you are here so that I can get you a list of all of the things that she needs done once I leave. Someone will need to stop by at least once a day to pick up the dog poop in the backyard after they walk the dog. Her grocery shopping needs to be done on Sunday - that's the day the coupons come out in the newspaper. Her bathroom needs to be scrubbed - she has been throwing up from the chemo but doesn't have the strength to clean it up very well, but thankfully, you guys have been cleaning the chapel for a while now, so it will be a breeze for you!! Also, I will need a list by 6pm today of all of the people that will be bringing her her meals for the next two weeks, so she knows who to expect. I just don't know what we would do without you!!"

sunnynomo Love the list!

Brilliant!! Watch then leave and say they will get back to you!!

You can get Tyvek suits for them.

http://www.pksafety.com/tyvek-coverall-1428-hazmat-suit-ty127s.html?gclid=CIj_wI771MsCFZJlfgoddFYJ9A

Add in a surgical mask,

Some cute little plastic boot booties,

http://www.hogslat.com/plastic-boot-covers

and some nitrile or latex gloves.

After they are are all covered, take a can of Lysol and spray the bejesus out of them. Be sure to make them hold their hands above their heads so you can spray under them.

Oh did I mention to turn the temperature in the house up above 80 for your mothers weakened condition.

Set a stopwatch and report how long of a visit they make.

It doesn't seem right to do it behind her back. I'm glad you're willing to help. Good luck.

Yes, I'd call the Bishop. While you're there visiting don't wait for the visiting teachers to show. Show up at church or call the Relief Society president and have a word with her. Visiting teachers should only stay 15 minutes max. We've had them stay an hour before also.

Yes, I'd call the Bishop. While you're there visiting don't wait for the visiting teachers to show. Show up at church or call the Relief Society president and have a word with her. Visiting teachers should only stay 15 minutes max. We've had them stay an hour before also.

Yes, call the bishop and everyone else you can think of.

And if they show up at the door, tell them thanks but no thanks. Don't let them in. And tell them not to call or ring the bell until further notice.

Yes, ask your mom. Honor her request.

In addition, I would make it clear that:

They can visit for a prescribed amount of time, but after that, they are to do at least three chores in your mom's house--chores that she is not able to do right now. Possibiliites: clean the toilets (if they're good Mormons, they've had plenty of practice), wash the dishes, wash and fold a load of laundry, vacuum the floors, wash the floors, dust.

It has been my experience that visitors who care about a recovering person do that. Visitors who don't really care--who have some other motive for visiting--will simply talk and wear a person out.

You'll see soon enough what these VTs are made of.

Were they doing the laundry for your mom, running the vaccuum, taking out the trash while they were visiting? Or were they just sitting on their asses?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2016 08:27PM by maeve.

Definitely sitting on their asses, spewing faith-promoting rumors for 90 minutes.

And they don't pick up on suggestions. You have to be rude. I would bet your mother doesn't want to be rude.

I agree with the above advice. I also don't understand why they were not helping around the house, but then if it were me, I'd prefer people leave my home alone.

It's only fair and decent to listen to the cancer patient and abide by their feelings. Losing self determination and decision making rights worries many cancer patients. Unless they're in a coma or mentally compromised, they need to be asked and heard.

Of course there are obnoxious, self centered visiting teachers, but there are also a lot of caring visiting teachers who just aren't good with social protocols. I think it would be perfectly acceptable for you to contact the bishop or visiting teachers and inform them of your mother's physical constraints. Additionally, you should inform them of the measures they should take to protect your mother's health (washing hands, wearing masks, etc.) and any service the ward can do for her.

If the visiting teachers genuinely care for your mom, they will appreciate the insights. If they don't genuinely care, then it doesn't matter what they think.

Mom has gotten wonderful help and assistance from other friends in the ward. She's well taken care of. It's these useless, assigned VT friends that are doing nothing but wearing her out.

Glad to hear your mom is getting some help. I wish her the best in her recovery.

Thanks for all the wonderful advice and insights. You've given me a lot to think about. To be honest I still haven't decided if I'll talk to the bishop. I'm leaving in a couple of days to spend a few weeks with Mom. I'll at least wait until I'm at Mom's house, and I've had some time to cool off, before deciding what to do.

I appreciate the comments about not taking away Mom's power just because she's sick. My only concern is that she's too nice to actually say anything to the VTs, wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. And my brother and sister are TBMs and have probably never had the thought that you can actually tell Mormons to get the hell out of your house.

My Dad died a few years ago. He was about as Mormon as you can get - sealer in the temple, stake patriarch, etc. But he was a very loving person who never rejected his son (me) for being gay, leaving the church, and marrying another man. He was very protective of his family, and had no problem going completely nuclear when he felt like someone was threatening the people he cared about (Mormon or nonmormon, it didn't matter). So I also have the feeling that he'd want me to be a bulldog about taking care of Mom when he's no longer around to do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2016 03:58PM by bezoar.

You must outsmart them if you want to protect your vulnerable mother.

FACT: Mormons care about checking off boxes so that they look good...so, just like in martial arts, use your knowledge of their real priorities to get the result you want.

IN WRITING, contact their bishop with a copy to your stake president. In this business letter, ask politely in business language, that visiting teachers deliver their monthly message to your mother in writing due to her illness.

Provide a date when they will be permitted to visit in person. Offer your phone number if they have any questions.

The bishop may contact your mother to confirm this is her wish, so make sure she knows you are doing this. She is lucky to have you to care enough to manage this for her.


Kathleen

Recently, my mom was in the hospital with double pneumonia (plus some secondary infections -- she was very, very sick). At first, she was barely able to take care of her own business -- my uncle and my sister had to step in and take care of some things for her. As she recovered and became more lucid, we stopped just doing things and started asking her what she wanted. When she was super sick, she wanted to start getting Meals on Wheels and she wanted one of those medic alert button thingies. By the time she recovered, I'd call to talk to her about those things and she had decided she didn't need them anymore.

Finally, I realized she was being resistant to feeling controlled. So I gave her the phone numbers she'd need to set those things up herself if and when she changes her mind and I stepped back. Now, I still think she needs the medic alert thing, but she's just carrying her phone around with her. I do not agree with her decision, but it's still her decision and she's still capable of making it.

Even when people are old, or sick, or feeble, they are still intelligent and we still have to respect their autonomy. So I would start with asking your mom what she wants. Offer her some alternatives. Perhaps you or another family member could go over there during VT appointments to reinforce short visit boundaries. I'd probably be okay with 15-20 minutes, but an hour is too much. If she says, I'm tired and I need some rest, then the VTs should respect that and maybe your mom is not assertive (like most TBM women) so a family member could step in and say, "Okay, let's wrap this up, mom needs some rest." But I wouldn't go do that without her express consent.

Maybe she enjoys the visits, even if they wear her out. Maybe she thinks it's worth it. Rather than asking us what you should, you should ask her what she wants.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2016 09:23AM by dogzilla.