As a convert & the daughter of an accountant bookkeeper - I ALWAYS had a problem with paying tithing-especially after being married to a TBM who was either unemployed or underemployed!

He was waiting for the 'promptings' of the holy ghost to KNOW which job/career path to take...he was the kind that would quit a job for that new BIG opportunity 'get rich quick' which never did work out the way it was supposed to...that meant a lot of months with little or no paychecks.

So during those times (& having little ones to feed, house & clothe) I found it extremely difficult to fork over the check to the bishop knowing it was an extreme hardship.

"Sure, pay your tithing. The windows of heaven will open and you won't know what to do with all your blessings."

The reality: I paid, with not a little difficulty. My money has to go a lot of directions.

My blessings? Some sort of financial catastrophe. Car repair, dental bill, always high dollar and always unexpected.

Then I started connecting the dots. rutabaga pays tithing=big bill for something. I quit playing that game.

In corporate terms, most tithing goes to recruitment and retention, minuscule amounts to actual charity. As soon as I had distanced myself sufficiently from the cult, this was clear. Now my TBM wife and I (the only earner in the family) don't pay a cent to the cult (tithing, fast offering, etc.,etc). There are many far more reputable organizations out there for us to support with our charitable giving.

Being from the 1960s, my weekly pay checks only called for single digit sums. At the Y, I was making $90/week at Mr. Steak and so forking over $9 was no big deal.

By the time I was making enough so that I would have had three digit tithing checks, I was gone, but I have a strong hunch that I would have not done it.

Compared to the biblical references to tithing, the new testament references to loving one another and being just and merciful and for forgiving the trespasses of others are a lot stronger.

I'd seen way too many poor tithe payers to put much stock in the windows of heaven being open.

Don't get me started about tithing... Well, here goes...

Tithing caused considerable contention in my marriage - until I declared we would only pay tithing on a "best effort" basis.

My very TBM wife (now ex-wife) had no income. (That's a priesthood responsibility.) She also felt 'promptings' of the Spirit. Basically, she felt obligated to act on any thought she had - unless it was "evil" (would cost her her temple recommend). "Go buy this!" must be coming from the Spirit. Meanwhile, if we couldn't pay tithing it was *my* (priesthood) responsibility.

I resented when my wife was out with other Relief Society sisters whose families either didn't pay tithing (that my wife would be ignorant of - but as the ward clerk I wasn't) or whose husbands had incomes ~18 times ours. My wife would feel obligated to match their spending.

I was trying to be financially responsible with savings, investments and an account for annual expenses (property tax, auto insurance, etc.). My wife felt that she had access to this money for any of these 'promptings.' She felt entitled to raid these accounts without warning. I would deduct these "loans" from tithing.

Finally, I told her one month that we had a utility bill we couldn't pay. She asks, "Have we paid tithing?" Yes, we had. Her reaction was, "So we're good!"

The next event when we had more month than money, I told her that tithing was suspended until our accounts were paid. My wife was in a panic, "We have to save money!!! Restructure expenses, etc."

From that point on, we paid tithing on a "best effort" basis. If there was money, we paid tithing; otherwise, not. When asked, "Are you a full tithe payer?" my standard response was "No. We skipped x months tithing last year. Discuss it with Sister Idleswell. However, if you fail to sign my temple recommend, my wife will divorce me." I was never challenged. It helped that I was an ultra reliable ward clerk.

A last point on tithing...

I learned to operate a personal business. Not only are my business expenses tax free, but they are also tithing exempt. Moreover, a portion of my home and auto expenses also escape the government and the Church (2 equally greedy creatures). I structured a loan from my home to my business making my mortgage a business expense (a deduction most Canadians don't qualify for).

It is called "the long con"

"I was never challenged. It helped that I was an ultra reliable ward clerk."

Yes, it would have helped to be the indispensable man in a drudgery calling that nobody else wanted to do, and if they figured you wouldn't go around telling anyone else not to pay a full tithe. Nudge nudge, wink wink. I wonder how often such little secret side deals go on inside LDS, as in most other big organizations.

Hermann Goering, the Nazi chief of the Luftwaffe, sometimes protected valued "employees" whom the Gestapo was trying to identify and arrest as Jews. His famous words were: "Wer Jude ist, bestimme ich!"

"I decide who's a Jew!"

Another point in my favour was that I was quite open with my bishops. "I don't care if I have a temple recommend or not." Any threat to "take your recommend" was completely empty by that point.

I rationalized it by believing that I would give 10% to charity anyway and 'the church' made it easier by taking my 10% and putting it into *real* good use (as opposed to large, self-serving charities like The United Way, Red Cross etc.).

Yah. Right.


I'm still miffed that there isn't an actual charitable arm to LDSinc like what the Catholics etc have. Bothers me.

And if I knew that my Canadian tithing went straight to BYU and god knows where after that, I'd have been furious even as a TBM. I honestly thought the money stayed in my community, helping out at the canary, bishop storehouse, Institute lunches at the University, etc.

Fuckin' thieves.

Human

My mother, a pioneer descendant, and my father, an never-Mo atheist, constantly fought over damn tithing. My mother said my Dad didn't love her enough to want her for eternity, and my dad would reply that he sees what the church has, and what he has, and figures that he needs the money more. I had to agree with him.

I got out of Mormonism before I was thirty and married a never-Mo. Over our forty-four years of marriage we have had minor disagreements at times on how to spend our limited funds, but the payment of tithing has never been one of them.

I'm glad you're out of it.

I'm delighted that I never paid much tithing. I'd be terribly bothered about throwing money away that way.

I never paid tithing to the church. When I was a boy my father would take ten percent of any quarter or dime I got. Three cents from every quarter. It all went into his pocket, and I doubt he went to the bishop to hand over the pennies.

Plus we were underhoused and often went without. The church never went without.

That's how I feel.

Hungry. At least for the last ten days of a month I starved. When I was a student I had maybe 650$ 350 went off for rent and electricity. Another $20 for communication. 65$ tithing, and as a good moron I split 15$ for fast offer, missionary, humanitary fund. That meant 50$ each week to cover EVERYTHING else.
Just one unexpected bill and I was effed up. I couldn't save up anything from my small income.
So mostly I felt hungry,while I paid tithing. Not only starving for food but also for social interaction. I was even too poor to join YSA-activities. Don't ask for going out with non mormon friends. Spending 3 bucks on a coke and another $8 for the cinema? Nope. Just not possible.
I was a faithful tithe payer and never ever saw a blessing for it.
Yes I may have asked for help from the bishop - but I was too ashamed for it. Plus I always thought I don't know how much fast offer we collect,there's maybe the family with 7 kids and the unemployed dad who need it more than me.

When I was a TBM I had no problem paying my tithing. I felt

like I was recieveing extra blessings for doing it, indeed,

we never lacked for money or the things it could by.

Then towards the end of the time that I was still in the

church I paid one dime for tithing...... one dime. I was

on my way out and I guess that was my passive aggressive

way of saying "see ya".

About a mere month or two before I had my epiphany, I forked over a check of about $3500 to catch up on several months of tithing.

I paid every cent of tithing, plus fast offerings, as a tbm.

It's something that makes me boil over with rage every time I think about it. I was completely brainwashed and taken advantage of. I was emotionally and financially raped as a tbm. That's honestly how it makes me feel. It wouldn't be so bad if the $$$ actually went towards something positive.

When I was a student--it will be an honor to pay tithing!
As a working bloke--I have to pay ten percent of my income to God-knows-where!

This is one of the things that put me over the edge this year. I worked my butt off last year, working long hours, traveling Etc and got a huge bonus. What does the wife do right after I get it? Cut a 5k check to the church. I wanted to scream at her.

bentaylor23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is one of the things that put me over the
> edge this year. I worked my butt off last year,
> working long hours, traveling Etc and got a huge
> bonus. What does the wife do right after I get it?
> Cut a 5k check to the church. I wanted to scream
> at her.


I would have screamed at her. That's outrageous.

As a TBM, I believed paying tithing was my duty and responsibility and that the Lord would bless me for doing so. I even thought I saw the "blessings", in spite of the fact that, once married, we generally struggled to make ends meet. (My wife didn't work for the first 10+ years we were married).

Once the City Creek Mall was finished, I had had enough. If the Church had the money to build and pay for a billion-dollar mall and ultra-fancy condos, they didn't need my tithing funds. 31 years of paying ON GROSS, plus a generous fast offering for many years and I had had enough.

I now "bank" the tithing funds and it's nice to have a pot to dip into if something comes up. My wife has asked me to pay on her earnings, which I do, but she does not hassle me about mine.

There is a very interesting lesson on the Church's website regarding tithing. It is located here:

https://www.lds.org/manual/family-home-evening-resource-book/lesson-ideas/tithing?lang=eng

Skip to the end, where you are told that, "surprise!" there isn't enough money to pay for all of your bills and pay a full tithe. However, can pay a full tithe and a PORTION on the other bills you owe.

Hey, guys, but I hate to point out that my mortgage company, the utility companies, and the grocery store are not typically in the business of accepting partial payments.

Sorry about the rant, folks. I just see this as a huge scam. If you want to donate to a charity - please do so! But, please donate to a charity that isn't in the business of building malls and condos.

When I was younger and the money I had I got from birthdays and christmas or whatever, I thought it was weird that my parents would pay tithing on what they earned, and that I was expected to pay tithing when it transferred to me in the form of a gift.

Paying 50 cents because I did some yard work for my grandparents and theyd give me a fiver was never as big of a deal to me.

When I started working paying 40-70 bucks a month got really irritating. I probably payed about 300-450 dollars from that job before I quit doing it. I didnt actually stop attending church until half a year later.

So tithing was one of the first things I chucked out the window, and never regretted it. I always just took that money and bought myself something nice instead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2016 11:56PM by nonsequiter.

I convinced myself that it was honorable to tithe as I was helping to build up the world's most perfect organization. I thought to myself "the government steals SO MUCH more from me to finance wars and line the pockets of corporations and politicians under the threat of prison."

Took a while to connect the dots that I was simply lining the pockets of another corporation and "politicians" under the threat of spiritual prison.

I was always completely 100% faithful in tithing, and happily wrote the check.

Then they built a mall. And I thought "Huh?" I added it to my list of things that I wasn't sure about any more.

So was your problem more the wrongness of it all; and then it was exasperated by not having enough (to pay TITHING) and paying it anyway?

How does a poor man feel giving a rich man money?

I last paid (about $1.75) as a teen, and a "teacher", before climbing away and becoming active (in life) [and inactive in ldsTINK). Slow forward through the twenties and thirties and I go to the Mormon crutch, as practicaly an investigator [just before finding rfm], and meet with the bis-hop and he tells me as much: what position I (accidentally {male}) held, how much I last paid and what I was wearing [the smirk on my face] the last day I attended, as a teenager.

This was the first of the dozens of red flags I saw (as I first began to look at the church objectively and honestly) over the coming weeks. I came up with a number of $170 in my pocket and so put $17 on the envelope paper (and meant to deposit the money too, therein). I noticed that week I had more money in my wallet than I thought, which made me wonder if I even put the money in the pocket of the BBC (big bad Church) or left it in the Lord's/ mine.

Seeing the bishop the next Sunday, I asked him if he still had the envelope, and he did, unopened. One wonders if he held it up to the light or felt there was nothing much in it. I tore it open and explained, oops, I had forgotten. And then put the worthless envelope in my pocket and never even once again considered giving a nickel to that corrupt system.

How do I really feel about tithing? Its rigged. A CHURCH receives what you offer it.

The LDS "church" demands a certain percentage of your OFFERINGS, I mean earnings, BEFORE your family even sees it- which is extortion, exclusion and eternal damnation for the so-called first family - yours!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2016 11:41AM by moremany.

When living with my parents, I enjoyed paying tithing. It made me feel special, set apart, blessed, protected, and above all self-righteous. Just as it had been for the Pharisees, it was a signal of virtue, a joyless form of conspicuous consumption.

Out on my own, I really didn't care about paying tithing. Of course, that was after fake commandments and tantrums disguised as revelations had drained all my resources and ruined my career. I didn't have much to give.

I didn't question it. It was a required expense, period. It was like taxes or a bill. You just pay it.

Sometimes it hurt to pay. We didn't always pay month to month, but always squared up by the end of the year, and sometimes that check was quite large.

We were mostly self employed, and so there wasn't a regular paycheck. We had to estimate what we made, minus expenses. Honestly, the biggest stress was calculating what to pay in the busy and expensive month of December, without having done the taxes for the year yet.

But when I payed it, I felt righteous. Seriously. I felt like a good person because I had sacrificed so much. One time we took thousands out on a credit card to pay tithing. Uggh. So foolish. But surely God would bless us.

It was harder for my husband. He realized the church wasn't true, hadn't told me yet, and it was painful for him to pay. He started grumbling about going into debt to pay tithing.

I always hated the idea of it....so they never got a penny of my money. I worked hard for what I have and they were NOT entitled to any of it.

RB

Getting back to the comment: was I upset with not having the tithing money to give? or just the whole concept of tithing? To be completely honest-even before I married-I did not have a 'testimony' of tithing. I thought it was the 'great con' of the church. Since I joined the church to please a my father's new wife at the age of 15.5 & I liked the teen activities with no drinking and smoking. (grew up with parents who drake and smoked way too much)
Since most of my peers did not work (I did) and not much was ever said about tithing in seminary (or I was asleep-haha) I did not pay much mind to this part of being lds.
Later, when I attended BYU - the branch pres/bishop said I had to pay tithing on my meager earnings working on campus-I thought that was insane. But I did it. When I married, we paid tithing religiously. As I mentioned before, my tbm ex was looking for the next big deal/MLM- spent an enormous amount of time researching ideas at the library (pre-internet) -sometimes he would take a regular job out of pressure from his parents and the bishop. He then decided that god/HF would bless us greatly if he paid tithing on what he WANTED to earn! I kid you not. This was not possible and when I finally found my voice and objected. He would condemn me for my lack of faith. When we finally split - it was because I refused to attend tithing settlement anymore. I even think we had paid and were current but I just refused to go. Heaven nor hell could make me go, I was so against this form of extortion.

I rarely paid before I was 40. Then I thought I should start living the gospel if I believed in it. I paid gross for 8 years. My epiphany was when the bishop said I should also pay fast offerings. I paid one year then I got pissed because I was paying 25% of my take home pay to tscc. I decided to pay on the net for the prior 8 years and figured I could stop paying for 5 years. I found rfm on the 5th year. Paying tithing was expensive lesson but it got me out so overall the ends justified the means.

Tithing was an interesting subject around our house. I was a bic mormon who had been ex'd and was re-baptized when my hubby decided to join. That's another story.

Anyway,we paid tithing. I received alimony and child support. I did not pay tithing on that. That was money I viewed as court mandated for my kids. End of conversation. Not to mention that it was illegal in my state to take my kids child support and give it away to someone else. I did put 10% into a fund for college etc. That paid for a lot of things my kids needed after they were 18. Things like cars, tuition, books, rent etc. Money the church viewed as theirs. Yeah, not so fast there bucky.

So, we were tithe paying recommend holding members. We thought it was going to a good cause so didn't feel too bad about it. We didn't pay on gross, and we deducted any and ALL church costs from our tithing bill. That means gas (we lived 30 miles from church) long distance calls, scouting stuff, etc. We didn't have a problem with that.

Then the awakening. When we left the church, it happened to be in the month of November. That particular year my hubby had the biggest bonus check ever. It was equal to a years pay. We got that check about the middle of November. Lucky for us, we paid tithing every December, and not monthly. We had a check written out for thousands of dollars. We were just waiting until the end of the year to send it. Instead, we ended up putting the tithing checks for the year and the bonus into the shredder. We bought a new car instead. No tithing payment ever made me feel that good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2016 12:52AM by madalice.

That's really cool that you got out before wasting that bonus. I still regret that last big cash advance I used to pay tithing the year before we left the the church.

Naw . . . I'm going to stop regretting that. It made it all that much more clear when we were NOT blessed for paying it. And that WAS a factor in me starting to doubt.

We would have had another child but the budget could not afford it.

We can now, and with that foul, filthy evil organisation we could have afforded it. They made us feel guilty for not being frugal and sacrificing for that 3rd child.

I could kill someone over this. I really could. We struggle, went without, no holidays. They robbed us, and stole that child cram us. I really could kill over this, I am so angry.

Interestingly enough, until the last few years I paid it freely even though we couldn't at all "afford it." It was "the Lord's money." I never felt financially blessed by doing so though.

This is one of my biggest regrets of my membership in the church. I blame part of my debt on paying tithing, well and medically expensive kids. I paid tithing and then had to put food or utilities on a credit card. I went into medical debt because sometimes we would have $10,000 owed in one year, but how do you afford that if you are paying tithing?

We shared a car, lived in little apartments or rented a room in someone's house, and hardly ever did anything. So, it's not like we were just big spenders.

Then when debt starts building up it's hard to shovel yourself out. I had to get a second job at one point to try to keep up with it and pay tithing. Why I never thought just don't pay it, not sure- was just that heavily indoctrinated.

We likely would only have 1/4 of the debt we do if we hadn't been paying tithing. Much better financial position now and will be okay- but life didn't have to be that hard!

I guess you could look at it like a charity donation, but I just feel defrauded. Wish I could get it back!!!

When I paid tithing on my babysitting money as a teenager I always thought how much I'd have if I didn't pay tithing. No one forced me to pay titihing. I was brainwashed by the church. I wish I hadn't paid it now.