So growing up in the church I was always told and taught that women are more spiritual and faithful. Now that we all know the church is bolognese what are the thoughts on this? Why are women so much more faithful?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2016 01:15AM by bentaylor23.

Because women crave security for themselves and their offspring. TSCC provides a sense of security, false as it is.

This is a generalization, but it kind of comes with having a womb. It's the same reason that once values are internalized, they tend to stick. Cultural values don't stuck as much to guys because they don't need that security.

It comes from forced dependence, lack of control and fewer options.

I would say it actually comes with how society conditions those with a womb. How Mormon culture treats women is a reflection of how a good portion of society wants women to act- dependent, uneducated, subservient, and obedient.

When women realize that they can make their own choices and live life on their own terms with making their OWN security, they no longer need a sky daddy and cult telling them what they can and can't do.

I agree, for women it's all about having security. Also, I think it makes them feel a little superior to all the other non-church attending women.

I was just thinking today that selfish people aren't really bad. They just happen to be bad for unselfish people. But they should take to TSCC like a fish to water.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150403095927.htm

Women are less likely than men to make decisions that cause a perceived harm to others for the greater good.

Hmmm.. All of my TBM family wept and wailed when I left.

"Better that they would have died than fallen away from the church" is still taught.

The stories that I hear more often are about husbands leaving the church and wives giving an ultimatum, instead of the other way around.

So, in Mormonese, yes, probably.

When I was young, I was taught this was the explanation of why there was a need for a polygamous heaven: more women were going to be in the celestial kingdom than men - because of their greater spirituality faithfulness.

So women get punished for their spirituality and faithfulness in the end? How could having to share a husband be a reward?

I don't think it's really true that women are more spiritual and faithful. How would anyone prove that? How would anyone measure spirituality? I would argue that it couldn't be based on church attendance because there are other reasons to go to church - social reasons and children's education, for example.

It's from Isaiah 4:1-- And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Mormons took that one scripture to justify the need for polygamy. That for every one righteous man, there were seven righteous women; and the only way for them to go to the celestial kingdom was through everlasting polygamous marriage.

Women in TSCC are also in a very vulnerable position, generally, because of the counsel to be SAHM immediately after marriage. A very high percentage of Mormon women do not have degrees and very little work experience. This puts them in a position where they often need the security of Mormonism with the ready made social support networks and pressure on men to support them.

I used to believe women are more faithful. I don't really believe that anymore. I think they are more vulnerable to emotional manipulation, and even abuse. They are more likely to be hard on themselves for not measuring up to the expectations of others. They are more likely to be people pleasers.

I don't know if it's because of social conditioning (especially if they were raised Mormon), or if it's in our genes. And I admit, I could be completely wrong and just be projecting from my own experience and from the people I know.

A lot of your "projecting" would apply to my TBM DW.

On a slight tangent, or perhaps related to the general topic at hand; DW put her RM ex through college, and the gratitude she received for it was, "I got my degree in spite of you."

I really don't understand why she still wants me to convert and be a member of the priesthood if it would count her ex as one of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2016 11:37AM by surprenant.

It's circular. They are also taught, more than men, that they have to please people.

I think the mystery of the priesthood plays a part as well.

Women are told that the priesthood is something they need in their lives, but they're not given it directly. They actually need more faith from the start in order to accept the doctrine of the Mormon priesthood because they have no personal experience with it.

Because they don't have the priesthood themselves, they can't really evaluate it personally. I think Mormon men can come to the conclusion more quickly that it's all bunk because they have experienced it and come to the realization that the priesthood doesn't really give them any special power. Mormon women can't really know that for certain, so maybe it makes them more willing to hold out a little longer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2016 11:26AM by want2bx.

Maybe women should hold the priesthood then. And not the men. Wouldn't women get better results when they bless someone if they are more spiritual and faithful than men?

On a darker note, maybe women only seem more faithful because they are leveraging their "soft power" in more insidious ways.

Most guys are okay with being under a woman's thumb as long as she doesn't press too hard.

Wouldn't you?

I was always confused by this teaching because if women were more spiritual, then why are the men in charge of everything? I would stew over this a lot. I think it's a way for the men to make women feel good about being suppressed. Now looking from the outside I see how ridiculous it is...they say men and women are equal...then say women are more spiritual. It's really confusing as a TBM to figure out what they mean.

So, a woman with four kids has a husband who just left the church. What now? Especially if the relationship is rocky and it looks like he's ready to bail on the marriage too, leaving her with a mountain of responsibility to the children and little to no support from him. This is not the time most women would choose to leave the only remaining support structure of church family and friends she has left.

She doesn't yet know how little meaningful help she'll really receive from the LD$ church, but she'll learn. Right, ladies?

Which is why in the coming years there will be more sister missionaries than elders out knocking on doors. It's what they do.

The Brethren have a hard time dealing with that prophecy; it goes against their sacred misogyny. At least you still have men only administering the sacrament.

I think it may be that women often keep a stiff upper lip and endure men's crap when they would really prefer to bang their husband over the head with a frying pan.

Women are more faithful is such a blanket generalization.

Women in the church can be just as faithless and rotten as

men.

Think about it.

I do think that as a population women tend to act more upon their emotions than men do. Which is what faith is, an emotion. Or it's built upon emotions anyway.

I think this is a very broad generalization, but I can see where you're coming from. I've seen plenty of men lose it emotionally over petty and non petty concerns, with and without religion involved. I agree with you based on social conditioning though. Women in the U.S. are expected to be emotional and are given a free pass when they are ("she's a woman" "she's on her period" "she's pregnant" "she has the baby blues" "those words touched her soul" "her dog died" "what a *****, she didn't smile at me!"), whereas men sadly don't get as much leeway with their emotions. Men tend to be bullied into suppressing and ignoring sensitive emotions, unless it is anger ("don't be a sissy" "grow a pair" "he's being gay" "punch some sense into him" "use logic, there is no reason to cry" "Andrew never cries, so something serious must've happened"). I know genetics and biology play a large role too, but I think cultural expectations and pressures are demanding center stage.

Going off the OP's post, I think the idea that "women are more faithful" was just BS the brethren came up with to shut female members up about not having the priesthood. I don't think women have it at all in the church or if the BoM says they do, it has been ignored since forever.

I could never put them all into words. The one about what it would be like to be the mother of 4 kids and finding out your husband lost his testimony (or cheating with other men). Been there, done that--no the church didn't help much, didn't pick up the pieces of my disaster of a marriage that they helped coerce me into. I begged him to stay to just raise the kids, not as a husband. Gave him permission to do anything he wanted and we'd build him an apartment downstairs. He left. Hell ensued. (I had a good job, but was only working part time--and he didn't treat me very well at all after he left.)

I stayed for many reasons, but the main one being fear now that I've examined it for years and years. I was never happy as a mormon. It is my ex who told me that. He was happy as a mormon he says. He left because he is gay. I wanted my family with me forever. Tell a mother her children can't be her's in the next life and you might win her over forever.

Imagine how beaten down a woman is being interviewed by a man about her sexual practices. No way in hell I was going to do anything I had to repent of. My brain couldn't cope with the idea.

I lived in fear more than anything else. I felt completely vulnerable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2016 11:37PM by cl2.

It's just spin, the bone they throw the woman to help her accept her place in the Mormon world. For many it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

No, women don't have the priesthood, you're waaay to special for that!! Women are soo faithful, even sacred, that's why you get the very most important job of nurturing. Shhh, we don't talk about heavenly mother, because, you know, women are faithful and special.

Wait! You're not married and have children? Never mind then, you're not special yet. Gotta be a mother in Zion dontcha know.
Cos like, women are more faithful, that's why it doesn't seem like you're important at all. You can become a queen and priestess unto your husband, that's how special you are.

There, now bow your heads and say yes.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2016 12:06AM by blakballoon.

This is true world-wide in all religions with a very few exceptions (like Orthodox Judaism). The effect of this, especially on Mormonism, can't be understated.

S higher percentage of women than men believe in astrology.

Why for all? Nobody actually knows.

It's the same thing as saying we don't talk about Holy Mother because she's "OMG WAY TOO SACRED." It's because women don't have any power in Mormonism, so when they complain, "it's because you're sooooo special!" is an easy fake response to get them off their back.