Hello,

I'm trying to leave the Church. I would have left months ago, if not for my family and boyfriend. A brief background:

I came home from my mission early due to illness, and was guilt-stricken to be home. I was secretly relieved...and I didn't know why. To feel better, I studied the gospel on the Internet.

To this day, I almost wished I hadn't.

On accident, I came across an article about the Book of Abraham. One document lead to another, and I soon learned that almost everything I had beloved in was a lie. Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, temple endowments, all not true! I was, am, heartbroken and furious.

Both of my parents are faithful converts. My older sister went "less active" (such a strange term, isn't it?) a few months ago, and it nearly broke their hearts. I secretly stopped wearing my garments, reading the BoM, and praying to Heavenly Father. Before I completely realized the Church wasn't true, I had been dating a young man that I eventually fell in love with. We want to be married.

I have talked to him about my discoveries. I have only talked to him and my less active sister about my plans to leave the church. When I first told my boyfriend about it, he cried. He asked if I was really open to God and was not even giving the Church a chance to prove it was true. We have mentioned it a twice since (we are fairly open about everything), and have fall into the same rut. I think he is afraid to really think about me being less active.

What should I do? Does anyone have experience with telling a loved one you don't believe anymore? I still haven't told my parents. How should I tell them?? I'm terrified, and don't know what to do. Life without the church is foreign and frightening to me, but life in the church is not an option for me anymore. I can't live a lie.

Sorry for the long post. Any advice, I would be so grateful.

Don't be sorry for a long post. Don't feel bad for what you are going through and be glad you are realizing it now instead of later as it would cause greater stress on a marriage. What's your background? How'd you guys meet and how long have you been dating?

P.s. You are in a safe place for this stuff though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2016 10:30PM by Suid_AfrikaRM7.

I suggest the essays but use these direct URLs. Let them read it right from LDS.Org You will also find these listed at the top of the board. One interesting thing, they do not have an author listed. Chances are very good your parents and your BF have no idea about these issues.

LDS Org Essays

We will be adding to this list as they are released.

Mountain Meadows Massacre
http://www.lds.org/topics/mountain-meadows-massacre

Book of Mormon and DNA Studies
https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-and-dna-studies

Spalding Manuscript
http://www.lds.org/topics/spaulding-manuscript

First Vision Accounts
http://www.lds.org/topics/first-vision-accounts

Are Mormons Christian?
http://www.lds.org/topics/christians

Book of Mormon Translation
http://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation

Race and the Priesthood
http://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood

Plural Marriage and Families in Early Utah
http://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-and-families-in-early-utah

Plural Marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints?lang=eng

Plural Marriage in Kirtland and Nauvoo
https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvoo?lang=eng

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Joseph_Smith%27s_wives
Sealed to wife, Emma, 28 May 1843


The Manifesto and the End of Plural Marriage
https://www.lds.org/topics/the-manifesto-and-the-end-of-plural-marriage?lang=eng

Becoming Like God
https://www.lds.org/topics/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

Book of Abraham
https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng

I agree. I have received a lot of good advice here about what to do with my TBM wife. Accept the possibility that this might end your relationship. With that in mind, take it slow and let him receive the bad news from the church first and from there be patient. The way I look at it is that it took me 5 years to really figure this out and then tell my loved one that I do not believe in the church. It depends on what kind of person your significant other is but be patient but firm. Don't lead him on and make him think that there is a chance that you might come back. TBMs take hold of that stuff and don't let go. Let him know you are serious. That being said, love a good life and show him that you are far happier out of the church than you are in. Mormons like to make you sad and miserable and then use that as evidence that life is not good without the gospel. Don't fall into that trap. Be happy and loving supportive. When you need to vent your frustrations, do it here. We support you. Now go, and return and report lol.

For many provable examples of Mormon lying, that can be verified easily, see:

"Mormon Lying" http://packham.n4m.org/lying.htm

And then read the scriptural references at "How to identify Satan's Works" at
http://packham.n4m.org/satan.htm

Hi Laurlai, it's difficult to tell loved ones who are true believers that you no longer believe. Eventually, you'll probably desire to tell your parents.

As to your boyfriend, I would suggest that the two of you have some honest, frank conversations about your relationship, beliefs, life goals, etc. Be honest with him and listen to his feelings. It may be that the two of you will grow closer together because of the honesty. But, you may also find that although you love each other, your lives and goals might not be the same.

It's very hard to realize that a belief system is based on fraud. Many of us also wish we didn't find the "smoking guns" of Mormon fraud. Those feelings will eventually be replaced by a liberating discovery that you can be your authentic self and lead a life of integrity without the baggage of Mormon doctrine and practices.

I've been married to a TBM for over 30 years. Dealing with Mormonism has been the most difficult part of my marriage. I'd give my eye teeth for my wife to realize the truth about Joseph Smith and his lies, but my wife chooses not to read or listen to anything critical about the church.

Please make sure that you don't make the mistake of thinking your boyfriend will eventually come around to accepting your disbelief if he remains a true believer. I've been told by a well -respected divorce lawyer that a difference in religious beliefs is the number one reason why Utah Mormons divorce. Please don't put yourself in a position where religious differences or no religion destroys your marriage. Talk to your boyfriend about your disbelief and make it clear that you will not go back to the cult. Very best wishes, BYU Boner, BA, MA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2016 11:09PM by byuboner.

You don't have to tell your parents at all. Just live your life. I found out much to late that certain things are really none of anyone's business. Mormonism makes everything everyone's business and airs the dirty laundry out. The best revenge to the church is living a fulfilling life and then scoffing at it telling you that you would fail.

It is possible to live a good life and your family not know what your beliefs are. It is honest if they never ask. Right now that is what I am doing. If asked if I believe I will be honest, but I am not going to parade my beliefs like I am a self righteous mormon. :)

It is also entirely possible to have a mixed marriage relationship. It is extremely difficult, but it is possible. Susan(one of them, there are a couple.) is probably one of the greatest humans alive, and can tell you all about it.

It is funny when they ask if you have given god and mormonism a chance. I did, for 20 long and very dark years. I have nothing to show for it, but 10% less of my income.

I would start by asking how much your significant other knows about a topic. For example, "Do you know why JS was in Carthage jail to begin with?"

Don't stress!!! I just told my TBM wife of 10 years about a month ago and it's been so much easier than I thought. When I first told her I honestly thought she was going to divorce me she was so mad. Since then she has seen how much happier I am and everything is good. She is doing her best to pray at dinner time and random other things but when it comes time to go to church she goes with the kids and doesn't bother me at all about it.

I can't wait for the day that's she's ready for me to tell her the truth about the church.

You are one of the lucky ones.

This isn't all about sharing facts and history and truth. How people react is more psychology and personality and life situation.

Some people are highly dependent on a group for comfort and security. They get scared if that connection is threatened. The group can be the church, or the family. If your BF has big TBM family, could be more pressure. Fortunately my wife was a convert and had no such thing.

And though I was a serious TBM, I was always a loner, so ditching the group was not a problem. Which is also why I tend to be not politically correct.

So you will find out soon if your BF and parents place the group over you. It is sad that parents will do that, but they do.

You need to get the big picture figured out with your BF before you get serious. If there was information showing the church to be less than it claims, would he want to see it? If his spouse became less active, would he love her less? Would he leave her as many have? Is it right to put church ahead of spouse and family? Would he be married to the church or to you?

I would also ask if he believes in free agency, and if so, why would it be wrong for someone to not choose the CK? Must we all live in mansions? Is it okay to not want polygamy and whatever else we do in the CK for eternity - home teaching, temple work, sitting in meetings?

If he had the choice between staying home and making love, and going to church meetings, which would he really want? Is he excited to do home teaching? Surely he gets out there the first few days of each month, right?

"When I first told my boyfriend about it, he cried. He asked if I was really open to God and was not even giving the Church a chance to prove it was true."

Ouch. That's not a great start. Sounds like he's a full-on TBM, to cry about a GF's lack of belief. (Was he trying to manipulate you? Were they real tears or Eyring tears?) And to ask if you were giving the church a chance… you're an RM, for god's sake. You gave the church at least EIGHTEEN YEARS to prove it was true, and it failed dismally. Seems like your BF doesn't want to think too hard. Maybe you can get through to him, but if he doesn't want to hear it, he won't listen.

You're going to have to ask some hard questions, and be prepared to receive some hard answers. Better to do it now, though, than let it fester and turn gangrenous.

You love him more than you love the church. Does he feel the same way about you? Does he love you more than church, or vice versa? If he loves you more, then he really ought to support you in whatever path you take, including your decision to leave. But if he loves the church more… well, you'll need to think long and hard about whether you want to be with a man who puts you #2 in his life, behind a fraudulent cult.

By the way, if he rats you out to your parents about your unbelief, or even threatens or suggests it, then you'll know where you stand. (Even so, the folks are going to suspect something if you don't get a temple marriage – unless you're planning one anyway despite your lack of belief.)

Once you're married, what will be your role? Does he expect you to be a stay-at-home, whether you want to be or not? Will it be a genuine partnership, or does he expect to be the Priesthood Leader, with you as dutiful helpmeet, bowing your head and saying yes? Mormon cultural expectations can be powerful, and he may not be strong enough to withstand them. You both know he can't climb the all-important priesthood ladder with an unbelieving, non-attending wife; can he ever be OK with that?

And the big question: CHILDREN. Does he expect you to pop out five within eight years, and then raise them while he's off doing church busywork? Can you stand to see your children raised in a totalitarian obedience cult based on lies, their minds being twisted week after month after year? I'm betting you can't; knowing as much as you do, it will eat you alive.

I'm sure there are other issues specific to your particular situation. But it's vital to get it all out in the open. You may no longer be compatible, which is sad, but better than the hell your marriage will become if you two are constantly fighting over church. You both lose if the church comes between you.


"I still haven't told my parents. How should I tell them??"

That depends on whether they were good, loving parents or not. Mormonism makes some parents abusive and their love becomes conditional based on church activity.

Assuming you had good parents that put you first, you might remind them that as converts to the church, they freely chose their own religious path (as was their right) and you should therefore be free to do likewise. It's quite possible that they "broke the hearts" of their own parents when they became Mormons, and so they can't expect to be exempt. What goes around, comes around, and all that. Your parents have faced disappointment before, and they're still here. They'll survive this too. Consider having your sister there for support, so you won't feel alone and outnumbered. Best of luck to all of you.

Ask, "If TSCC is a lie, would you want to know?"

They may say, "Yes," but not mean it.

If they mean it, show them the comparison of the Book of Mormon and The Late War Between The United States and Great Britain, and also show them The First Book of Napoleon.

There is even more evidence than those that the BoM was plagiarized. But that's a good start.

You don't have to tell your parents anything. Live your life so you can live with your own conscience. Make new friends and do new activities that don't involve the Church.

Take it slow with BF; if he was a real TBM, it will be a shock that you don't believe anymore. Share what you have learned with him slowly. At some point you are going to have to ask yourself does he love me or does he love the Church more than me. Don't force the issue with thinking you have to resolve everything instantly. If BF gives you grief start planning on life with someone else. With my wife I went slowly and fed slow bits of info and planned activities on Sunday away from Church. If your BF is a normal adult male he'll choose you over the Cult. If not there are plenty of other men out there who will face the truth and have the courage to walk away from the cult.

Think REAL HARD.

Think about the coming wars if you choose a life with this person.

The war over money.

10% of every dime going to a lie. How will you not go to war over that? That money over time could add up to over a million in future value but you gave it to a lie. Small and short vacations, never a vacation when church on Sunday is not plugged in. Used cars, not as nice a house, cheap schools for children, not quite the neighborhood you wanted (this practically locks you into BYU).

The war over Children.

You will have them. That is your choice. Will you allow them to be taught a lie and have them grow up to see you as a “lesser than” mom because of your “poor choices”? Children taught that coffee and tea are of the devil. Clothing options determine porn status and whether the girl should have been abused. The brainwashing begins at 3.

The war in bed.

The church and its morals will forever be in between you and your husband’s intimacy. His wearing of the garments will remind you and him every single day. The intimacy in marriage should not come with the shackles of hopeless anticipation of what could be, laced with guilt and anxiety.

The war over time.

The church will determine your husband’s use of his time and every minute of which will reinforce these two facts. You are not living as you should. He could have chosen a better believing spouse. He will be doing church business and you will be with the children. Where will be your hobbies, interests, time to be you? Would any of your pursuits be “approved of”?

The war over family.

Time with extended family where the believers will always see you as “lesser than” and you will never rid the feeling that they know “he” could have done better. This list could get long and I think is more than obvious. The ugly possibilities are downright scary.

The war over religion.

Well, you are already in that war aren’t you?

This is a short list. Think hard and long. Every minute, every action, every dollar, every thought will be filled with mormonism and how you don’t have your mind right.

Or,
you could choose the below list containing a lifetime of emotional and finacial trauma with a man who loves you and could care less about your belief or unbelief in Mormonism with a non-mormon man who is a hundred times more than you thought non-mormon men could ever be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2016 12:59PM by AmIDarkNow?.

I agree with everythigng AmIDarkNow? said.

In addition -- Carefully consider that sometimes love isn't enough where your goals and preferred lifestyles differ so radically.

I completely agree with AmIDarkNow. Do not rush into a marriage that may bring you nothing but grief despite how much you may love the guy. Go very, very slow.

I left the church about 10 years ago. My wife is still TBM.

We get along very well. She somewhat accepts my lack of belief, although she still thinks some day I will be back. I respect her TBM-ness. I do not bring up church related topics unless she opens the door for it.

We have been married for almost 30 years. We both love each other very much.

But with all that being said, knowing that I was going to leave the church eventually and she was going to stay. If we knew that 30 years ago, I bet both of us would chose another spouse. I think I probably would.

It is just too much of a difference in philosophies to try to go into a marriage knowing that one person is exmo and the other is TBM.

Once you are married, you find a way to make it work.

I highly suggest you respect everyone's right to their religious beliefs by faith as they are predominately emotionally based and as such a very strong emotional response very often follows. especially when their sacred held beliefs are challenged or questioned. This is very important (in my view)-- refrain from putting people in a position to question their beliefs and never use words like: lies, fraud, hoax. Why? Because in Mormonism it's highly unacceptable to question and it's most often taken personally as rejection and as such can result in some very dramatic and negative responses and severe personal attacks. Many people are not going to be interested in your ideas. They are satisfied with their beliefs. Not going to change.

I'd also suggest you keep a lot of it private and stick to something simple and only when asked like: "I changed my mind" and then change the subject. Typically, Mormons are not going to be respectful of your changes, but it's important, in my view, if you want to "keep the peace" and protect your relationships, to be respectful of their rights to theirs even if you disagree.

I've written extensively on how I maintained a 50 year marriage to a strong believer with what I called: "seven generations of Mormonism in his DNA." Sometimes it's not possible, however, to keep relationships because some Mormons are unable to live their own 11th Article of Faith, which was all I asked of my husband when he asked what I needed from him. (Smart man!)
11th Article of Faith:
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I like to take a kind, gentle approach, mostly because I have found that anything else often results in a lot of anguish, and severed relationships.

It all depends on what kind of outcome you want, and how you want to approach it. If you don't care how others treat you, if you're strong enough to take the onslaught, the crying, and gnashing of teeth, the threats to your eternal soul, the shunning and the nastiness.. then be bold and nail them! :-)