I'm just watching this Jeremy Runnells video. So far, it's pure gold (I'm at the 30 minute mark right now).

But I have to wonder...why haven't these guys ever come after me? As an ex-Mormon, I was on the PBS documentary, "The Mormons". I was on Bill Maher's documentary "Religulous". I've been shooting my mouth off on here, on radio, on TV, about Mormonism for twelve years. Aside from my former stake president publicly lying about what he told me in our private meeting on an obscure Mormon chat board once, I haven't heard one single word from the Mormon church since early 2004. No one's visited me; no one's ever sent me a summons to a Mormon kangaroo court; no home teachers ever came round; no one's called; nothing. I'm not sure whether I should feel relieved or indignant :)

I think there are three possible explanations:

1.) I haven't shot my mouth off enough yet (hard to believe);

2.) People in the church haven't really noticed (possible);

3.) Local Mormons are scared to engage (doubtful).

As far as I know, I'm still on the church records as a member. (I've never gotten around to resigning).

My question is: what more do I gotta do to get these guys to come after me? :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2016 03:19AM by Tal Bachman.

If there's one thing Mormons love to do, it's brag about which famous people are Mormons or have some connection to Mormonism. They crave validation from the world more than almost anything else.

I don't think they're that inclined to take you off the list, when they can keep claiming you as one of their own, instead. So they'll probably come after you right after they excommunicate Ryan Gosling and Katherine Heigl.

Bad PR is better than no PR. The average person, the kind that can't find Portugal on a map, will associate Mormonism with rocker Tal but forget that it's a negative association.

Jeremy's audience was active Mormons. Big difference. He's so high above you.

Disagree.

When I learned Tal was the son of Randy B. I thought that was very cool. When I learned that Tal was short for Talmage I thought "wow, Randy Bachman must be a serious TBM to name his son Talmage." Then I connected Tal to his #1 hit She's So High.

All very cool, but he's no Donny Osmond. As such he's not immediately recognizable to most Mormons, no matter how good or who poor their world geography is...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2016 01:06PM by Doubting Thomas.

Hehehehe...

Back to the OP, have you tried Facebook? I did. One post. Excommunicated a couple weeks ago.

Haha. Cute pun, Babyloncansuckit.

You're right. Tal is still on the asset side because he hasn't claimed to want to stay in the church and change it from the inside. Those people publicly ask questions and demand answers. As we saw in Runnells' court, you don't ask questions. Period.

But both the ones who ask questions that make other people go, "yeah, what about that? Please explain," as well as the ones like Tal who can say "It's full of shit and they can suck it," all make small strides in it being a little bit better of a place for our grandkids who are stuck in it.

I know that Mormons are still bragging about Aaron Eckhart and Kevin Rahm. They probably brag about you, too. And who wants to excommunicate a Canadian, anyway? Everybody loves Canadians, so... I think you're safe.

The reason they went after delin and Kate Kelly was because they were wolves in sheep's clothing. You are in wolves clothing and thus less of a target.

If you think about it it makes sense. Excommunicating those others made it clear they were speaking counter to the church. With you there isn't any ambiguity.

Maybe if you want that, you could say things like, as a believing member the churches policy on X is stupid. Then they'll come after you.

That makes sense. Tal put himself in the "anti" category, material to be ignored by TBMs.

Sorry, Tal. They were already vaccinated.

Which is an excellent observation as well. If you want to get the word out to TBMs,...

So many heretics so little time...my guess would be the avalanche of bishop meetings the last three years wherein the ces letter was mentioned...get in your stake presidents face ...if he wont cut you off they can send Ivins up with his pocket knife...id guess if they scraped hard enough they could find a brown noser to ex their own mother for birthing a heretic...no offense intended to great mothers everywhere raising those little tithe payers...which came first...the mother or the missionary...if you get called in Tal be sure to record it...its endlessly fascinating how ambushed Ivins and his buddies appeared...good on ya Jeremy...really i guess they won...after the manner of warny jeffs...they answered him nothing

You're too high profile already. They like the celebrity status you bring to the Mormon dogpile.

If you were to leave by resigning, or they excommunicated you, they would lose their bragging rights.

Which raises the question, why haven't you resigned yet? What are you waiting for? The other shoe to drop?

;-)

It's funny to me, Tal, that I was actually reading some of your many posts on ForbiddenWebsite.com last week. They were more compelling back in 2008, but they still make great reading.

Would you like me to tell my bishop, or maybe Neil Andersen, that Tal Bachman's posts are shaking my faith? Maybe we could get something going here. If you got 45 minutes to make a statement like Jeremy did, I think the chapel walls would probably fall down.

They want, and need to be able to manipulate people.

But Tal has shown that he is well informed and that he is not going to be manipulated. Going after him would only cause bad publicity for the church. So they have to back off.

If a famous person is about to be brought before the church court like Runnells, and then excommunicates the church...now that can cause some real damage. A lot of members don't know that they can do that.

I imagine that Randy Bachman too, is still in the church membership records. My neighbors, who are Canadians, proudly told me that they had met Randy at church, but they have no idea that he is no longer a believer.

I had to bite my tongue on that one just to be perceived as a good neighbor.

You're in Canada. LDS Inc didn't have a cow when Canada legalized same-sex marriage either, though they certainly did when California did, and rammed through Prop 8.

Move to Utah County, and show up at the local ward a time or two. They'll probably ex you.

In my mind you are too big of a public figure. If they continue their witch hunt outside of their power bubble it will catch attention.

Maybe the connection to the rock world makes this theory possible, but for me, Tal was unknown until I came across his postings on this board.

The rock connection and the media exposure that would come from excommunicating Tal would be much larger it they went after the lead singer of the Killers or Neon Trees. If those two individuals wanted to push back on Mormon discipline that would be scary for LDS, Inc.

Tal would be less of a threat.

What do you have to do? Create a group of musical artists who are current or former Mormons and go after the church on LGBT discrimination. Get the story out in major media.

Can you imagine how quickly the church would change its bullshit policies if Steve Young, Marie Osmond and David Archuleta began talking openly on talk shows about the damage Mormon leaders are doing to LGBT youth?

So much you can do Tal. This board stuff is more venting than anything else.

TSSC doesn't come after you because you don't have an effective public face that systematically attacks the veracity of their doctrine, such as an organization, concise writings, a podcast or blog as John Dehlin, Kate Kelly, Jeremy Runnels, the Tanners, the September 6, Fawn Brodie, etc. all had.

If you want them to come after you, then do something significant other than brief media stints, or preaching to the choir on RfM. Write, blog, start a podcast or radio show dedicated to exposing Mormoism. You could even form your own religion based on Mormonism. Form an effective organization that garners a following of active Mormon members. That will get you all the attention from TSCC you crave.

I concur

...do something that takes money away from the COB. That is what it's all about to them.

I don't see this as Tal "craving attention" from the church. In fact, it comes across to me as somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

However, it brings up many good points that people have mentioned in their replies about how the church tries to exert its power and influence over people and how non-inspired the leaders really are.

No, Nightingale - It is my comment that is said with tongue-in-cheek.

Knowing Tal, I believe he is being very upfront about goading church authorities, and would likely welcome the platform if they were to initiate a court of love for him.

That's a good question; Will Bagley is in the same boat--still on church rolls as is his brother--and he said to me if they did toss him, it would be worth "$30-35 thousand dollars in publicity." This was back when Packer was alive, and he was actually hoping for a BKP presidency for that reason...

I don't know the Canadian exchange rate these days.. (big smiley face)

Like you, Bagley was featured on Whitney's program, and here's another one you have in common...

Danny Boy Peterson trashed you both, calling you "Taliban Bachman" and labeling Will "a lying venomous gasbag."

Hey, here's a thought: Will also cut a record back in a former life (about the outlaw Jesse James). Maybe you two could collaborate on some songs... I can think of some possible titles:

"Garmie Wearing Blues"

"G=Girls are Hot!"

"The Lonely Love of Joseph and Helen Mar"

"Ballad of Brigham Young and John D. Lee"

Working, working...

The CES Letter scares them.

Tal Bachman, though quite articulate and opinionated, has been just an annoyance.

Canadian + good music = What's not to like?

Be careful what you wish for.

You don't martyr.

Forgive me Mr Bachman. Was raised on Lesley Gore, Jackie Wilson, early Motown some Beach Boys and Beatles. Fiercely loyal. Never heard of you.

My guess is that you would raise too much negative publicity since you are known world wide. To much potential for news outlets to pick a T. Bachman excommunication story - not because anyone cares, but because it is interesting news. TSCC is probably also afraid of what you would say about them in an international spotlight. I doubt they will EVER touch you and they know to leave well enough alone. In other words, TB excommunication = Potential large scale bad PR.

You have also been marginalized by Mormons by being an open apostate. These are Mormons who know of you and your music. My exmo daughter is a fan of yours, so you are clearly well known for your music from what I have seen. Since you are not trying to weaken the church from the inside, Mormons quietly denigrate you. I will give you an example of what is likely happening.

A few years ago a friend of ours, outside of Chattanooga, had missionaries knock on her door. She simply said to them after opening the door, "I am a friend of Eric". She said the missionaries eyes got wide and asked, "That apostate in Cleveland?". She nodded and they quickly left the porch. A formal church court is meaningless as TBMs have already judged you.

My answer? I think you have to publish something that gets a lot of attention from Mormons and they reference it when they leave!

Apparently, mouthing off is OK!! :-)

I'm so surprised you haven't resigned, Tal. I'd guess you'd want to make a big statement like that. However, not even bothering to resign is a good message - the church matters so little that you don't even try to jump through their hoops.

That's somewhat why I just left too. I've never had to officially resign from a church before. The fact that they think you have to in order to be considered a non-member shows that they believe they still have power over a person who has demonstrably left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2016 02:33PM by Nightingale.

I suspect that, like someone who has had their 2nd anointing, that you are untouchable, just not for the same reason.

The more public recent excommunications, Kelly, Runnells, etc, are for members without much public notoriety. The church can and does write them off easily, even within their congregations. They won't make it on Ellen for their trials or probably even Maher's show. their story, while important and carrying weight for us, simply doesn't really resonate outside the mormon influence. So, the church can kick them out to stop them being a both to members (see, they are angry apostates, they were kicked out for being evil)

You on the other hand have a public presence. You have a voice. If they were to attempt to excommunicate you, you present the threat of a lot of people listening to you. The story wouldn't be, "The LDS church excommunicated some guy with a blog" it would be "Popular Music Singer was excommunicated from the LDS (Mormon) church today for pointing out their weird beliefs. In a statement he release he said, 'I did not ask for this, I just asked questions. I don't understand why they forced me out rather than answering them.' When asked for a comment, the church stated that they do not comment on internal disciplinary courts." The story would go on to describe the shunning, emotional damage, etc that comes from excommunication... In other words, the church would have a much harder time spinning the story.

There's also the risk that, being a public figure that by excommunicating you that they would raise bigger questions within their membership. The can point to Runnells and say he's an apostate, because not many people really know him outside of that terminology inside the church. You, on the other hand have a fan base, which includes a large number of Mormons... People would ask, why did they excommunicate that singer? He always seemed like a nice guy and I liked his music... Leading to researching what you've said about the church, it would legitimize those statements in a way that leaving you alone doesn't. Right now they can write it off as you being a bit wayward and how they hope that you'll come back to the truth.

So for now, I think they'll leave you alone, like they would other sufficiently public people. I think you'd actually have to push pretty darn hard to get excommunicated, to the point where the church could spin the story the way they'd like to.

Just to be clear, I was only wondering because I appeared on "Religulous" and the PBS thing and have appeared online and stuff (not because once, a hundred years ago, a song of mine appeared on radio; not sure that would ever be relevant to church leaders).

That's the number of downloads of the CES letter in less than three years.

Also, in case you didn't catch yesterday's news, the youtube video of Jeremy's court o' luv was viewed over 20k times in one day. Those are some serious numbers.

Although internet and other media sources such as RFM have been around a couple of decades now, these newer outlets like John Dehlin's Mormon Stories, Mormonthink, Ordain Women, and the CES letter are a whole new ball game that are inflicting much more damage on the church than the older ones have. And they are confronting the church more head-on than older sources have.

It's like the Ex-Mormon, or anti-Mormon movement, or whatever you wanna call it, has transcended beyond us old fogies (meaning anybody older than about 40) and has been taken over by these younger, more internet and tech-savvy youngsters who aren't afraid to tackle the church head-on. One example of this is John Dehlin's interview with the young "Zelph on the shelf" guy and his lovely British lady friend who is in advertising. If you haven't watched it, check it out. I think that these young people represent the future of Ex-Mormonism. And they scare the church leaders to death.

"My question is: what more do I gotta do to get these guys to come after me? :)"

Write a musical about the Prophet. A deaf,dumb blind guy. You could call it "Tommy".