Since it only took o-n-e, s-i-n-g-l-e FB post to get me excommunicated almost one month ago, why not poke the hornet's nest again?

Here's my latest post:

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On January 31, 2016 I made a fateful post that ultimately resulted in my excommunication from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more familiarly known as "Mormons". In that post I stated I would not publicly discuss the things that brought me to a state of unbelief in the Church because I had promised my leaders (Bishop, Stake President, Area Seventy) that I would not.

On March 30, 2016 I was excommunicated for apostate behavior, due to that post and my refusal to alter or remove it (I felt I was NOT teaching anything but rather stating my arrival at a new state of (un)belief. In fact, I stated in the post that those wishing to learn the things I did needed to do their own homework. Thus, I was not teaching.) My ecclesiastic leaders had a different opinion on the semantics of the word "teach".

Family and friends faithful to the Church may wish to skip reading this post. I do not wish to offend you or discourage your lives of faith (Article of Faith 11 applies)!

But the deal is now off. Mind you, I do not do this out of anger or retribution. Since I no longer believe, excommunication or membership resignation was just a matter of course. I do this for those m-a-n-y who want to know how I got to where I am. I will present some of that information, meaning this is the first of a few posts. You may take that information and draw your own conclusions. I will provide references. You then look them up. Go further and add your own research to mine. Don't just read the exact references, read the material before and after.
Do your homework!

I might state my opinions and conclusions in these posts but, again, they are mine. YOU SHOULD STUDY ON YOUR OWN RATHER THAN TAKE MY WORD FOR ANYTHING!

If you're still with me, let's start with definitions.

Lie (verb): to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive; to create a false or misleading impression (Merriam-Webster)

Lie (noun): an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive; an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker; something that misleads or deceives (Ibid)

The scene.

Nauvoo, at the Stand (a grove near the temple where Joseph Smith, Jr. and others often spoke)
Sunday, May 26, 1844 (one month prior to Joseph's death)
Joseph addresses dissenters.

The statement by Joseph Smith, Jr.

"What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one."

So, keep in mind the date and the declaration. While I am singling out this one statement, the practice of plural marriage or "spiritual wifery" was roundly disavowed by Joseph and other Church leaders. This makes that declaration representative.

Background.

Jan 18, 1827 - Joseph marries Emma Hale (https://history.lds.org/eve…/joseph-smith-marries-emma-hale…)

Mid 1830's (1833?) - Joseph is sealed to Fanny Alger (https://www.lds.org/…/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvo…)

April 1841 - Joseph is sealed to Louisa Beaman (https://www.lds.org/…/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvo…)

Several other sealings are listed without dates but are covered by the following footnote: "Careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40. See Hales, Joseph Smith’s Polygamy, 2:272–73." We then can be relatively confident in the estimated number of Joseph's wives. (https://www.lds.org/…/plural-marriage-in-kirtland-and-nauvo…)

So by his death, according to lds.org (the Church's o-f-f-i-c-i-a-l web site with the Gospel Topics and the subtopics now referred to as "the Essays" being reviewed and approved by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve - see video by Elder Steven Snow, Church Historian), Joseph had between 30 and 40 wives. I'll just mention that most of these marriages/sealings took place before the end of 1843, lest you think he married/was sealed to the bulk of them between his declaration on May 26, 1844 and his death, June 27, 1844 or later, by proxy.

The conundrum.

Joseph had between 30 and 40 wives by May 26, 1844.

He declared, on May 26, 1844, "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one."

This declaration was addressed to dissenters and is recorded in the History of the Church, Volume 6, pages 408-412.

This declaration was also published in the Millennial Star, No. 42, Volume 23, pages 672-674.

The declaration and the evidence do.not.match.

Conclusion.

For me, there is only one conclusion. Re-read Merriam-Webster's definitions as listed at the beginning of this post. Any other conclusion, in my opinion, is rationalization.

This was one weight I placed on my mental shelf that I would put off dealing with for years until later. Unfortunately there were many more added until the shelf cracked and then collapsed and I was forced to face all the issues I had wanted earlier to put off!
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I know, I soft pedaled it but, for my family, I need to do just that. Gotta ease them into starting up their brains.

Love it!

You might also point out that plural marriage was illegal at the time in all the United States. My seminary teaching brother choked on that tidbit this summer and initially refused to believe that it was true.

Joseph Smith lied. There is no other reasonable conclusion. And if he lied about having plural wives, what else did he lie about? That is the question.

What the Mormon church did not realize when they excommunicated you is that you are now free to post whatever you wish.

According to the LDS.org you are correct. These were the "carefully-worded denials". Spoken of in the infamous essays.

Oh how this makes me smile!!!

The good news is that some of church history is actually pretty interesting :-)

Hopefully things are good for you and your family post-ex.

Whoa Bruce!!!

When will you ever learn that, "Some things that are true are not very useful"???

Just teasin' you Bro...go for it and of course we ALL wish you well in your attempts to open the steel reinforced bunker mentality minds of TBM's to at least a little critical thinking in their lives!!!

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_history/Boyd_K._Packer%27s_talk:_%22The_Mantle_is_Far,_Far_Greater_Than_the_Intellect%22

Or so it seems to me...

Thanks for the post, Bruce. I think lying is a huge problem for Mormonism. Some of those people have gotten so good at telling lies they believe their own fabrications. Their very religion is founded on lies, as you've shown. I can't wait to read some of your other points.

Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war. Shakespeare's Boner.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2016 08:17PM by byuboner.

Excellent! I'm interested to read any more of your further posts, as well as any feedback you receive. Hope all is going well for you and yours, post ex.

Bruce, please take a look at this older post of mine. It has "faithful" sources and quotes that specifically say that JS married other women during his lifetime. Not the essays, but TBMs can't argue with them.

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1587225,1587300#msg-1587300

Terrific stuff!

For more examples of Mormon lying (lying by Mormon leaders) and the Mormon scriptures that say that lying is not part of God's plan:

"Mormon Lying" http://packham.n4m.org/lying.htm

Actually, the mark of SATAN'S church is that it lies:

http://packham.n4m.org/satan.htm

Also see the Lying for the Lord series of videos on YouTube by a former CES Director.

Also, the CES Letter

Thanks for your encouragement and suggestions. You're all creating a monster!

*grin*

Ha! This is great stuff.

They are going to wish they hadn't X'd you.

They are going to wish they could X you again.

Now I'm beginning to understand L. Whitney Clayton's commencement speach.

TSCC will be upping their anti apostate retoric in the future. (I had a revelation).

CONGRATS on getting out. I am proud of you and thank you for spreading the word to help others see the sham the EVIL CULT actually is.

Jeremy Runnells would be proud of you too. The CULT is shooting themselves in the foot continually. The problem of course is that they don't have anything even remotely true associated with them so there is no way that they can defend themselves except with more lies.

They have to sit like bumps on logs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2016 01:21AM by verilyverily.

Gospel Principles Manual: Chapter 31 'Honesty'

"Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). There are many other forms of lying. When we speak untruths, we are guilty of lying. We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth. Whenever we lead people in any way to believe something that is not true, we are not being honest."

https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-31-honesty?lang=eng

And the date of the Wentworth letter wherein JS writes the Articles of Faith focusing on #12 "obeying, honoring and sustaining the law,"...there was a moment when I realized JS lied and if he lied about that, there was no point in believing him about anything. The organization he created was corrupt.

Soft pedaled or not, you still hit the right notes.

I admire not only your work and integrity in the face of what you've learned, but the grace you demonstrate in coping with those who are still trapped.

That is an important lesson as well, one from which I've learned.

Thank you.

Great line in "Seinfeld" as George is teaching Jerry how to beat the polygraph test.. "Jerry, it's not a lie, if You believe it"

Nice, Bruce.
Any "some things that are true aren't very useful" replies yet? :)

Ha! No, not exactly.

There were only three gems so far:

"When you try and read church material outside the standard works* lol"

"Church is all true guys"

"It's true man. The gospel is true. Love you guys. And you'll be in our prayers. Not out of sympathy but because we all need people praying for us."

And throw in D&C 58:21 to compliment the illegality of plural marriage. That is a contradiction that even the most deluded cannot deny.

Tell me which of these statements are true?

Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was ABOMINABLE before me, saith the Lord.
Jacob 2:24 p. 121 1830

David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
DC 132:38 p. 270

Remember this quote:

What a wicked web we weave when we practice to deceive.

This should be the slogan of the Mormons!

When I pointed out Joseph Smith's lies about polygamy to my
brother the Institute Directore, he replied, "if the Nazis were
after your wife and asked if she was home wouldn't you lie to
them?"

Oh, I get it, just protecting the wives, not himself.

They are ex-communicated - for lying.

You still communicate - people are learning, even if slowly.

I very good friend of mine IRL has engaged me on my post. Check out the sub-comments (replies) under the main comment by me, "I am curious. I see 17 main comments and several sub comments. But one thing is conspicuously absent."

The thing is, he's intelligent. He just isn't able to wrap his head around certain ideas.

I present this here as an example we're all too familiar with and that we battle with varying success.

Enjoy!

Original post url on FB: www dot {fb} dot com slash bruceah slash posts slash 10207772042792812



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2016 07:01PM by Bruce A Holt.

I really enjoyed your audio at your "Court of Love".

You clearly know what you're talking about and I can see why there's a new directive to "disconnect".

You know too much!

Knowing true doctrine will cause anxiety amongst the members
to run as fast as they can away from those who are armed in truth from TSCC own archives.

Can I be your Facebook friend?