As a TBM, completely sure of the church, did you ever have a relationship with a non-member? How did being around them and hearing their point of view on the world make you step back and look at your own? Or did it? Did being with them make you wonder about your own views at all?

Just curious, as a non-member dating a TBM! Thanks everyone. :-)

....I dated a girl. When my church friends found out they were not supportive. I took her to mutual and the young mens....advisor(what are they called) pulled me aside and told me to be careful with dating non-members. I doubt that you are having much effect on your boy/ girl friend. They are getting hassled from members about bringing you to church and/or converting you to their side.

I guess if the person you are dating was already questioning you may be having some kind of influence but it is doubtful.

As a TBM, Ziller would have had the goal (and duty) of ultimately converting you - especially if you were a good kisser.

With that end in mind, a TBM’s world view tends to become more myopic, not less.

Ziller

There was no male that I'd look twice at in our little branch, or in the church that I knew. I married my childhood friend, a non-member.

We were together until he died in 2002 and our children are now grown and parents themselves.

Yes, we were very happy and he was very tolerant and accepting of my mormonism, though our children went to Christian schools (as did we), they were members until we all resigned together a few years ago.

My family loved him too.

Briggy

I'm not sure if this is relavant to your case, as I left TSCC at 19 years old, but as a teenager in VA, I only dated non mormons(TBM Girls in my area were not attractive). My first girlfriends had no effect on me because they didn't drink, or smoke or whatever, so church really didn't come up much. We just did things I would have done with any "Molly". It was my non mormon buddies that got to me. Once I realized that the world would not come to a screaching halt if I drank a beer(dropped a Sacrament water tray, because of a hangover once:D), other things started to open up to me. It was a short trip to attending High School parties, then finding girls with lower morals (God bless those girls!). But I was still living a double life, pretending to be a good Stake Presidents son on track for a mission on one hand, and having a good time with the "Gentiles" on the other. I never had that final straw moment that led me away. There was no site like this in 1987. I just thought about changing my ways, and spending 2 years on something I really didn't believe in, and having to live the rest of my life like that, and I decided I wasn't going to do it. I moved out and never went back to church. It was later on that I realized why I never really believed in this foolishness.

I guess my long rambling message is, if you are doing things with him that any TBM girl would do, and are not forcing him to go to your church with you sometimes(or skipping church altogether for a picnic, if you don't go), going to a bar to dance(not drink), maybe an R rated movie, or being very upfront that you will never, ever join his church,(I'm assuming he doesn't know you are on sites like this) You are not taking him out of his "Mormon comfort zone". And he is just thinking he will convert you some day, or is just enjoying his time with you so much he isn't thinking of the future at all. You views on the WORLD, he won't have much of a problem with. Your views on his CHURCH, he will. I think you need feel him out, and see if you are wasting your time. I hate to say it, but if he is a TBM he loves his church more than you.

As the only non mormon girl in my graduating class, I dated lots of mormon guys of varying levels of committment and activity.

My most significant boyfriend was a divorced married-in-the-temple guy who truly believed. But it didn't stop him from some activity he wouldn't have confessed to the bishop. He refused to drink alcohol, however. 45 years later, he has become a non-believer who has been chastised by his local church leaders about conversations he's had with other mormons that are not "faith promoting". He was told to go home and pray and read the BOM. He still wears garments and plays the role since his entire extended family are TBMS. But he confessed to me that he has studied his way out and realizes that the whole church from the beginning was based on power, money and sex.

Another boyfriend had been disfellowshipped after an affair on his mission. He said it happened because "she tempted me". I dated him a year. Again, he would not have confessed his relationship with me to the bishop and 4 months after we broke up, he got married in the temple. Guess the bishop didn't discern the lying in his worthiness temple recommend interview.

Another RM I dated casually got it on hot and heavy if you know what I mean with a close friend of mine. At age 75 he is still the avidly TBM. He's the one who took me for a walk one evening and pointed to the star that he was going to rule over in the next life. When I tried to discuss dinosaur bones with him, he claimed that God had created this world from old worlds and that's why there were dinosaur fossils found.

I always tried to engage the TBM guys I dated in debate about the beliefs of the church. Some would discuss and others would get defensive. Some of the guys one would consider "wild" teenagers have become the most pious temple attending, bishopric appointed Mormons.

I'm pretty sure none of my conversations or arguments ever had any influence on any of the guys I tried to talk to.

I had several close friends who weren't LDS, and one who had stopped attending because she didn't believe it.

I had some pretty deep religious discussions with several of them. But those discussions never made me question my own beliefs. At all. It just helped me understand my friends better.

It was plain to me they were good and honest people who just had different beliefs than I did. I also got to hear how insensitive Mormons (including teachers) were to my non-LDS friend at BYU. She got so sick of fake friendships (building relationships of "trust" to convert her), attempted preaching, religious bigotry. It gave me a glimpse into the ugly side of misssionary work.

Ultimately, knowing them may have made a difference . . . but I didn't really "get it" until maybe 15 years later, when other issues forced me to reevaluate my beliefs. Recognizing that there are wonderful people who ACTUALLY reject mormonism or have different convictions WAS a step in the right direction, but it wasn't enough to make me question. I do have one relative who questioned her beliefs BECAUSE of the fine non-LDS people she lived with.

But in a dating relationship? I wouldn't count on converting/deconverting anyone. People deconvert on their OWN timetable. And when influenced by a love interest, those conversions/deconversions aren't reliable. And I wouldn't EVER want to count on someone being truly deconverted unless they were both emotionally and intellectually deconverted, and knew how to set boundaries with their LDS families. Otherwise you are setting yourself up for misery. People have a way of going inactive for a while (especially in their late teens and 20's) and then snapping back to their own ways when they have kids or hit a crisis in their lives.

Never date someone with the idea that you can change them.

This is not exactly what you are looking for, but here goes.

I do handy-man work for a divorced woman and her high school age kids. After many years of conversations while working around the house, she learned that I was pretty much a card-carrying conservative; I learned she was a card-carrying liberal. We have had some very lively conversations.

Anyway, it always has been and continues to be platonic. We’re pals.

But, I credit “Doris” with helping me out of the church.

When CA Prop8 came along, I talked to Doris and her daughter about it. They were like “What’s the big deal? We accept everyone just the way they are.” Wow, that hit me hard. Talk about revelation! That was the tipping point that headed me out the door of the church.

Doris and kids live a great life. They travel to Europe and do all kinds of fun things. They don’t go to any church, don’t pray, actually kind of negative on any religion.
I told Doris; according to my church you are unhappy. That always gets a big laugh.

Now that I am on the way out, Doris has become my confidant and listening ear. She is willing to let me vent my frustrations and let me talk it out. She lets me talk about things that DW isn’t ready to hear yet.

I entertain Doris and the kids with stories about the church and the temple. Doris’ old sorority has pretty much the same handshakes! Those masons really get around!

So yes, I have a relationship with a non-member. It is the one thing that got me out of the insular church thinking and made me look around at the rest of the world. She made me re-evaluate my life and thinking and make some positive changes.

I sure wish I had someone around like your Doris.It would really help during my trasition out of the morg.

Thanks everyone! I have no intention in trying to de-convert my boyfriend. If it makes him happy, I have no place to judge. I'm just trying to get inside his head a little bit because we're young, and he's talking about his mission and hinting that he'd like us to stay together which, I can't and won't do for all the obvious reasons!

I try to drop hints here and there to get him to look at the world in a different angle though, especially with his views on homosexuality and content in movies. (i.e. him revolting, getting uncomfortable about brief nudity in a movie, ME: 'the human body is a beautiful, natural thing.') It's sad to see the narrow mindedness and sometimes fear about such natural human behavior so I just try to subtly get him to look at things a different way, is all! I love and care about his happiness and at the moment I'm trying to feel out when and how to have the whole, religion conversation. It's difficult because my situation seems to be a little different in that I'm almost positive he would never try to convert me. I know what you're all probably thinking, but countless instances in our relationship have led me to believe that!

This site has been extremely helpful! Thanks again everyone!

I dated a girl over the summer that actually had a big influence on me questioning my beliefs and pursuing my doubts with the church. She never tried to "de-convert" me or anything, she was really conscious of my religion, and was just a good example to me as far as using logic and reason, and feeling good about questioning and not blindly following.

She and her family used to be TBM's, but are now full blown atheists. That is when I started to seriously question my beliefs with the church. I thought "These people are truly happy without the church". And they were. It really spoke volumes to me how perfectly normal and extremely happy these people were WITHOUT the church.

We have recently stopped dating, but I will be always grateful to her for her individualistic way of thinking, her example of how to be completely happy without organized religion, and her opinions of the world without attaching a religious dogma to it.

I dated many nonmormons when I was young. I am now in a 6-year relationship with the nonmormon I wanted to marry, but chose not to. (I'm 53 now.)

You really can't get into their heads. It didn't matter what I could see, I chose not to see it. It took my own life experience for me to finally get that this person could have made me happier than any mormon ever could have.

I also had a lot of nonmormon friends (because of where I worked, though I am in Utah)--and their influence did eventually help in me leaving the church. Every little thing made a difference.

I think the BIGGEST thing for me was I had been told that nonmormons were unhappy heathens--who were not good people. When you KNOW deep down by your experience that that is a blatant lie it does have an effect.

I too, was the non member. I was going to school in Cedar City and probably only dated two non members the whole time I was in school. Drinking wasn't my thing then, so dates were doing what I loved, hiking Zion, Cedar Canyon, Bryce, Cedar Breaks,etc. Never dated anyone very long. Told one guy that I really didn't want a white wedding dress but wanted ivory and you would have thought I shot him. within a couple weeks he was history.

Another guy took me home for a weekend and his whole family had an intervention with him. Older brothers drove a couple hours and all the priesthood assembled somewhere and his mother wasleft to entertain me. I sensed something but didn't quite figure it out til later. He broke up with me, literally dropped me off at my apt and headed back to momma's. Two nights later he was knocking on my door at 3:00 am wanting back together.

I was inactive in a TBM family for most of my teen and young adult years. The only relationship I had with a TBM (after my mission) was a disaster and we divorced after 15 years and 2 kids, with a judge placing a "no contact" order on her that expires around 2099...works for me!

All the non-mormons I dated, had relationships with, etc...were very normal, just didn't work out due to youth and typical stuff. I've been with and mariied to a never-mo now for over 5 years and life is really great!

My advise is don't date mormons, even if you are one yourself! Unless you are prepared for anything, including a disasterous relationship that ends in divorce....there are no guarantees, like the church wants you to believe.

I dated a guy that was pretty much atheist. His baby brother had died in his arms a few hours after he was born. I was terrible to him. I told him it was because his mother smoked during the entire pregnancy and maybe it was a sign from gawd. I tried so hard to convert him, but he stood his ground and would rather see me gone than not be true to himself. I couldn't see who he was past his religious preferences, and I still get sick thinking about what a cold-hearted shrew I was.

Got hooked up with a pretty girl from a HUGE family--as soon as he converted--I mean as SOON as he converted--she was "just a friend."

You guys, I was part of the problem. I successfully flirted to convert with my HS girlfriend. To my credit, though, I really was converting to flirt. I cared about her, but I knew I couldn't marry a non-member.

She eventually joined the church while I was on my mission, and it was all but certain that we'd get married soon after my return. Of course, she found some other guy in her singles' ward a few months before I got back. They got married the summer after I got home.

To this day I feel guilty. She seems happy with her husband and kid, but she probably never would have joined the church if it hadn't been for me. Her family was strict catholic, and it was a big disappointment for them when she converted. It was an even bigger deal when they couldn't attend her wedding. And it's partially my fault.

Yes and she rode me like a rented mule for over a year.

Just sayin'...

Ron

I only dated non-members. The guys in my ward and stake weren't my types and I was a feisty young woman with a lot of opinions.It didn't help that I had a real thing (and still do) for bad boys.
My last HS boyfriend started me on my path to leaving the morg.