I have never been a Mormon, but I am fascinated by Mormonism, JWism, Scientology, etc. I was involved in a Christian cult in college.

Do I have this right (bottom to top)?
---Hell. (reserved for really bad guys, e.g., Hitler, Jeffery
Dahmer, the Kim's of North Korea, motherrapers, fatherrapers,
those who cheat widows and orphans, JS, BY, Judas Iscariot,
etc.
---Telestial Kingdom. Reserved for run-of-the mill nonMormons.
The sort of usual Joe and Jill who you see everywhere.

---Terrestrial Kingdom. Very nice, good people. Very moral
NonMormons and nominal Mormons who sometimes cannot get a TR.
These don't actively cheat on their taxes, but they let any
"mistakes" slide.

Celestial Kingdom. Must be Mormon before death or believe
when they learn "The Truth" and if they have been baptized
by proxy after earthly death. Very nice place, very nice
indeed. Pretty much the Christian idea of heaven.
But here my question start: Do these "see" Elohim? Do they
live in or on or at Kobol? May they marry more wives and/or
produce more children? Do they have their own planet and
receive worship from their wife(s) and children? (I just
thought of a real conundrum: what if they were born
infertile on Earth?)

---Exaltation. Become gods of their own planets. May marry
more wives (must have three for the CK, but seven required
to be exalted). (Damn! What a crazy men to women ratio
there must be!). Are worshipped as gods just as HF is
worshipped as God here now.

I am so sorry this post is so long. The questions are real.
I appreciate your patience.

Steve

You will probably get some variations in the answers, because Mormon doctrine can be hard to nail down sometimes.

This is close to my understanding, with a few differences:

There is no real "hell", even for really bad guys. They still get the telestial kingdom, but I think there is some idea that if they don't repent, there will be some sort of accounting.

Those who have had a direct, perfect knowledge of the holy ghost (not just a regular testimony, but full on prophet stuff) and then deny him are cast into "outer darkness", a version of hell in which there's no fire and brimstone, but complete separation from god and everyone else.

There are three levels within the celestial kingdom, the top being where you receive exaltation. This is where you are married, have your own plane, etc. The consistency of this depends on which talk show the prophet is appearing on when asked. No one seems to talk much about the other two levels of the CK. I think it's like going to the Olympics. It's all about the gold, but you know there are two consolation prizes if you don't quite get it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2016 10:00PM by Pista.

I agree with you, Pista, hell and outer darkness are slippery doctrines that are not clearly defined.

Let's see, I believe that the description of each kingdom is in Doctrine and Covenants Section 76. You can google it and read the actual words.

There is not technically a Mormon hell. Rather, it's called "outer darkness." The really bad folks go there, but as Hitler had his temple work done for him (as well as his sealing for Eva Braun) he is now eligible for the highest levels of the Celestial Kingdom (assuming he accepts Mormonism as a dead tyrant).

Within the Celestial Kingdom, there are three levels, but these aren't discussed. And, if memory serves correctly, here's the visitation schedule--

Telestial--Holy Ghost only
Terrestrial--Holy Ghost and Jesus
Celestial--Holy Ghost, Jesus, and God the Father

The Celestial Boner.

Orale, Boner, everyone here knows you are a genuine inflated being, destined for the puffiest level of the Erectile Kingdom.

We reverence you!

Right back at you Dawg--you old stiff-shaft number 1 wood!

I think you mean 3 wood chopping through the rough. 4ooooorr.

Only the men become God of their own universe. Women use their perfected, post-death bodies to deliver the billions of spirit babies that will someday descend to their husband's version of Earth and repeat the same process of birth, belief, death, perfection, and so on.

Wash rinse repeat unto infinity.

P.S. You should look up D&C 130 verses 7-11 for a description of what Earth becomes after its job is done and it gets perfected. It's like Lord of the Rings with secret passwords.

The Earth itself will be a giant crystal like the one you see hanging from a rear view mirror in San Francisco and Marin county. It will be globe shaped and look like glass and fire--sorta like the Times Square New Years Eve ball. Each inhabitant will be given a white stone with a secret name. A custom made pet rock for good Mormons.

Here is Mormon Heaven.

Misread this post and thought it said, "each inhabitant will be given a white SCONE with a secret name."

Nevermind!

In my case, I was given a white bone with a secret name, it's Barnabas.

I've never gotten a good definition of who goes to outer darkness, and why, pinned down. My understanding is that murder is a sin that cannot be repented for on earth- you can only receive absolution for it in heaven, and then you go straight to Telestial Kingdom. So the only sin that qualifies for outer darkness is denying the holy ghost- another thing that I have never gotten a consistent answer about what it really means. I have heard variations of 'seeing god in the flesh and literally denying it happened' so a less literal 'having and knowing the fullness of the gospel but turning away from it' type of answers. An example I've heard used more than once was the type of person who would go to Outer darkness is Judas Iscariot, because he knew Christ was the Christ, and betrayed him anyway. Additionally, I've been told that it is difficult-impossible in most situations- to commit the 'unforgivable sin' of denying the holy ghost.

To be it just seems like some hackneyed nonsense Joe knocked together, and since he never really knew what it was and never explained it to any one- like so many other things in the D&C- people have just been making assumptions about it and creating their own definitions for it ever since.

Thoughts? comments? Is there some definite quote from a past or present Apostle or church Prophet that defines this more clearly?

I, for one, was taught blood atonement was necessary for Telestial "glory" for murderers and apostates. So if you murder someone, your blood must be actually spilled on the ground to get to the Telestial. Same if you deny the Holy Ghost.

To round it all out nicely, that is the reason for the Danites (and our relative Wild Bill Hickman) and for the disembodiment rituals in the temple. My mom revealed too many secrets (secret keeping was not her forte) but I personally found it a blessing, and hope she's not punished for it.

Just want to add that dear old dad taught me the same applied to any woman who had an abortion, That's murder, so unless she bled onto the ground (capital punishment, but not by electric chair or injection), outer darkness was her fate.

Fucking Brighamites. So fucking proud of founding Brigham City. Sucks.

---Hell. Doesn't exist except to the extent that we see what we could have been/done, and regret it. All the kingdoms of Glory are better than here, and will be consistent with what people wanted for themselves (as opposed to what they wish they wanted, but didn't really.)

---- Outer darkness Reserved for those who rejected Christ after knowing everything about Him. Includes Lucifer, and Cain. May include Judas, but maybe not as he didn't have the testimony of the Holy Ghost and we do not know whether he was fully responsible for his part in the crucifixion. Very few, all once members of the LDS church.

Telestial --- rejected Jesus, acted badly. maybe those listed, but maybe not if they have repented of all those sins. (, e.g., Hitler, Jeffery Dahmer, the Kim's of North Korea, etc.

Terrestial--- This is for all the good people of the world, who died without the law, who were blinded by the craftiness of men, who were not valiant in their testimonies, who rejected Christ on earth, but accepted Him after they died.

Celestial Kingdom. Must accept Christ when taught, and baptized with authority (or accept proxy baptism). Live with God.

Exaltation --- Celestial Kingdom plus additional ordinances including initiatories, endowment and sealing to spouse. Become like our Heavenly Parents (we project this includes our own worlds, but there is nothing more than extrapolation of our understanding of God as the basis.)

There are no marriages in heaven --- the ordinances all have to be completed by proxy on earth before the end of the millenium.

We do not know how spirit children are created. But those who think it is by having sex with their resurrected spouses, apparently ignore the fact that could not create a spirit body at all.

I do not see those in the celestial kingdom being worshipped as Gods unless or until they have their own spirit children who are sent to an earthlike experience. People in the celestial kingdom will continue to worship Heavenly Parents as they do on earth.

I was taught in the 50s and 60s that there is no hell.

There are those who will be cast into Outer Darkness with "weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth."

We were told that fewer people than the fingers on one hand would go there. In order to go, it was taught that you had to have a "perfect knowledge of the Holy Ghost and then deny it." The average person gets the gift of the Holy Ghost, but not the perfect knowledge.

This idea makes me wonder if that is why the Apostles won't face up to the truth and come clean--their fear that they have the perfect knowledge of the Holy Ghost and are vulnerable. They are doing the brainwashing, the Apostles are, but they are also the brainwashed themselves?

Also, Hitler's temple work was done--the paper work has been posted on line and knowing the Mormons i would assume that really happened. He can still make it to some level of the CK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2016 01:40PM by blueorchid.

Is this another one of those "Mormon words don't mean the same thing to Mormons that they mean to everyone else" things?

So like in D&C 132 when it says if you receive the fullness of the new and everlasting covenant (temple marriage, right?), but don't abide by it (including all the commandments re: polygamy) that you will be "damned"... That doesn't mean damned to hell, it just means you can't dwell with God in the CK?

So according to them, everyone not going to the level of the CK is damned. (?) But they don't believe in hell. Or, every level of heaven/the afterlife that *isn't* the CK is, in effect, a certain kind of hell because God doesn't dwell there?

telestial = trailer park/ghetto/projects

terestial = middle classes

celestial = mega rich/bankers

I remember my parents talking about how they were looking forward to having servants and a mansion in the C kingdom. It always amused me, because they were often the biggest jerks in the neighborhood, and they had to move often when they burned out the people in their wards. Mom refused callings, and Dad tried to get investors for various schemes. Who would serve people like that?

I want to go where the doggies (and kitties) go.

And where Mormon doctrine become slippery to pin down-

My seminary teacher in my last couple of years of HS told us about the "cosmic soup" where we started as intelligences before becoming babies. He claimed that's the actual Outer Darkness and those who ended up there, like the Sons of Perdition and 1st degree murderers, would get another chance to become spirit babies by another goddess-mother and be reborn. I thought that was some bullshit, that they would get another chance at exaltation, but those in the lower kingdoms would be stuck there for all eternity.

Also my uber TBM mother claims that there's no such thing as a Daughter of Perdition and women can never qualify for such a grievous punishment.

Yup, Mormonism is pretty weird.

Are you a Spooner?

rhgc:

Not Spooner. Spoonemore. Unusual. Pronounced just the way it is spelled.

Odd as it is, there are five here in Texas.