Hi,

I'm still not sure what's normal after growing up in the church.

Here's the situation (pseudonyms used):

My brother Dan and his wife Susan are both true blue Mormon. His wife is nice but very apt to go along with things. Susan is frail from childhood, and since having one daughter has been fairly ill, having to stay in bed most of the time for several months with general health problems. She is slightly better now, but still doesn't have good health. She has had at least two miscarriages, at least one in the last year.

But my brother is still wanting more kids. When I asked my mom if maybe they should consider adopting, because Susan's health is worrisome and I wonder if more pregnancies would seriously hurt her, she said Dan just "really likes kids and wants more".

This seems a bit unfair and uncaring to Susan to me, but I am still not sure what is reasonable in normal society. What do you think? What do non-Mormon couples think about risking health for more kids?

Thanks!

Fundamentalist ghawd believers give ghawd sufficient credit to work things out. You can state facts, offer a reasonable point of view that contrasts with the desired goal on the basis of appropriate data, but then they'll just smile at you and do whatever they want to do.

When you ask them to justify their action, they say, "Well, because ghawd!"

If they both want more children, that's their decision. However, they should check with several doctors to see about the impact pregnancy will have on Susan's health. She needs to consider what's more important--biological children or her health. And, it might be helpful for them to consider that the are many wonderful children who need homes. Best wishes, Boner.

Sick sick sick. People like that are just plain sick in the head.
They come under the classification of Sanctimonious, Hypocritical, Bigots. IMHO they are without honor, of dubious ancestry, and questionable parenthood! So There!

He sounds like a heartless A** to me what kind of man would risk his wife's life just to satisfy his own selfish wants? And the mother is just as bad if she takes his side in the matter.

I agree.

My uber tbm dil had this mind set. She was having babies 10 months apart.She fired her Dr. that told her to slow it down and let her body recover. Mother nature stepped in. She started having miscarriages instead of babies.

That seems to have knocked a tiny bit of sense into her head.

If this woman is in poor health, how will she take care of more children? What if child bearing finally kills her ? What then? Is this dad prepared to raise them alone or hurry and find a new wife to raise them?

This is why I feel concerned. It feels like he is trying subconsciously to have the "perfect" Mormon looking family with a sufficient number of kids, no matter what common sense says.

his father was an abusive SOB who would not lift a finger to do ANY of the baby-care. So, I was essentially a single mother (with a full-time job) who had to do it all.

When you have to take leave time from your job because your child is ill (especially if your supervisor is not a parent and doesn't understand what a conflict this is) it can really wear you down - especially with no support from the other parent.

If Susan is already in fragile health, I agree with the others who have said, "Check with Susan's doctors." More pregnancies and babies might take too much of a toll on her.

And is Dan really prepared to raise those kids himself, if it turns out to be too much for Susan???

This situation is tragic.

This is between them and their doctors. If given the opportunity, you may voice your concerns, then let it go. One of the things I hated most about Mormon culture was that everyone thought my reproductive conditions and decisions were their business. You are certainly free to hold your own opinions, but in the end, they will be responsible for their own choices.

I have seen people have children under conditions I thought were insane, and it all worked out really well. I've also seen people who should have had a "perfect" family fall apart.

I don't plan to say anything to them, but I liked hearing that it is ok to be concerned. Thanks.

Dan wants a son, in order to replicate his resplendent Mormon Priesthood manly self.

It would be a different story if Susan had given birth to a boy, and not a girl.

I agree with scorpionking. This guy sounds like a thoughtless bastard. If fool ol'Dan had to go through all that, there would not have been one child much less more.

How is this not physical abuse?

It is abuse, under the term reproductive coercion.

http://www.acog.org/Resources-And-Publications/Committee-Opinions/Committee-on-Health-Care-for-Underserved-Women/Reproductive-and-Sexual-Coercion

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/12/16/3070331/reproductive-coercion-domestic-violence-prevention/

There simply isn't the pressure in the mainstream Christian denominations, or the outside world in general, to have a certain number of babies. My friends and family members from my parents' generation on generally have anywhere from 0-4 children. I would say that 2 or 3 children per family is the norm nowadays for the college-educated families that I know.

Couples normally do take the mother's health into account when making decisions about family size.

sounds like a muslim man - keep going til a son arrives, then some more for luck. Gotta take over populating the world!

I would ask Susan who she would want to raise her daughter if she's not around. I know it sounds harsh, but in not opting for a surrogate or adoption, that is what she risks.

I would ask her in front of Dan, to watch his reaction. If Dan is shocked and hurt, I would apologize and give them time to mull it over. If Dan is in denial and defensive, I would remain silent and let Susan figure out her options.

Based on his desire, Dan sounds like an ass, who married no more than a brood mare, and if this one dies, he'll get another. What kind of a man offers no thought of protection to his wife?

1. I don't think it's any of your business and you have no place inserting your opinions into their family decisions whatsoever. IF you are asked for your opinion, give it. But only if they ask you what you think they should do. (This will never happen.)

2. I would have to know what, exactly, is the nature of these health problems? Now, obviously, it's none of my business and I don't want you to tell us here, but it's between your SIL and her doctor to determine if she can physically and mentally/emotionally handle another/more pregnancies.

3. I think your brother is a despicable piece of shit for waning children more than he wants his wife to be safe and healthy and able to care for whatever they've got already. Remember Andrea Yates? That poor woman who killed all four of her children because of PPD? Long after their doctor advised them to stop having children, Papa Yates insisted they go right on ahead and have another one. IMO, he is responsible for the deaths of his children because he did not value his wife and her mental health enough to prevent having more kids.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates

Makes me sick to my stomach to hear about men demanding such nonsense.