I'm curious about this statement.

> I bet the openness of their relationship is a real
> ball buster to current TBM mormon lesbians.
> (although the notion of TBM lesbians is hard to
> fathom...)
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1820161,1820374#msg-1820374

I've known of a few women couples who are living together in long term relationships and are TBM.

Now, I never found out about their sexuality but their devotion to each other move than rivals any hetero married couple.

I would think it would be easier for Mormon homosexuals (yes they exist) to be true believers as females than males for obvious reasons.

Mormon men in this situation would not fly I think. They would be considered sexually active. But TBM women are above reproach. I actually know of a couple who are fully active temple-attending women who share all of their assets and for all intents and purposes are Lesbians possibly without the sexual expression. One of the women's family even refers derogatorily to one of these women behind their backs as uncle.

Even adding a sexual dimension I could see TBM Lesbians. I think there may have been many during polygamy's heyday. To them their sinning probably is a close relative to masturbation. They probably don't see it to the degree the much maligned male homosexuality experiences in Mormonism.

Women just aren't as important in Mormonism.

My polygamist sister, while not homosexual, has stated that she feels closer to her sister wives than her husband.

Remember, I was comparing a relationship from near the turn of the 19th & 20th centuries, which the church did nothing about. This couple was allowed to live together and hold important church callings. So for them, being TBM exacted no penalty.

Which is why I opined that their story probably bugged S & W, in that they have not been able to replicate it; that is, assuming they knew about Louie and May.

It might rankle S & W to know that 100 years ago they could have been mormon lesbians, but now they can't. And it's a puzzle to me why mormon lesbians would be TBM or attempt to appear TBM. But obviously they do.

I think back in the days of Louie and May, so little attention was paid to women that what they did or didn't do in terms of their feelings and to whom they displayed their affections.

At some point it did become important to the priesthood that the church appear to be able to control 'them wimmens'! And so the threats and excommunications began.

It's an interesting discussion...

"TBM Lesbian Missionaries Temple Dunk-Tank After-Hours Hijinx" is a porn video waiting to happen, in my opinion.

I've thought about this a time or two and think that lesbians can fly pretty much under the radar at LDS, Inc. I knew two couples, one at BYU and one on my mission, that slept in the same bed and did everything together. Neither ever dated men and all four were very attractive. They may not have been gay. They just made me wonder. I don't know about their finances or life commitments but the older couple, from my mission, had been together for a very long time. Nobody at church ever said anything about these women or even suggested they might be living improperly. Female roommates, unlike male roommates, don't seem to attract much attention. Sometimes I wonder if the Fossil 15 even know that women can enjoy sex without a man. I've never been asked the masturbation question in a worthiness interview.

I swear I was searching for thespians...

That may be a requirement for Mormon Lesbians.

All I can say is this (and then I won't say any more) There were lesbians with the very first group that came into the salt lake valley with Brigham Young, though it's never yet been documented and written about in any books yet, it's a dark secret that I heard about from old family stories that we don't talk about publicly.

Lesbians have been very devout converts from the very beginning and were in the scenes of all the early Mormon history.

I found this. I have no idea how accurate it might be regarding specifics, but the general idea regarding the change from tolerance to rejection rings very true:


Since the time the pioneers entered the valley, Mormon women have fallen in love with other women. While many such experiences were private, the organization of what we would today call a lesbian community began before the end of the 17th century.

In 1891, when the gay-associated Bohemian Club of Salt Lake was incorporated, both women and men were included as members. Its principal incorporator and benefactor was Katherine Young Schweitzer, granddaughter of Brigham Young.

Still, it was not until 1892, when the Desert News published a story about a Memphis, Tennessee woman who was accused of murdering her girlfriend, that the Latter Day Saints community became exposed to lesbianism in a public way. During the same time when the LDS community became aware of lesbianism in the larger society, relationships between women within the LDS community were often celebrated or encouraged. Mormon suffragist Emmeline Wells, for example, publicly praised the same-sex relationship of Francis Willard, President of the national Women’s Christian Temperance Union.

In 1912, the first explicit reference to lesbianism in an LDS magazine occurred when the Young Woman’s Journal paid tribute to "Sappho of Lesbos." Nine years earlier, in 1903, the same magazine had published a poem by Kate Thomas celebrating her same-sex love. Thomas, a devout Mormon who never married, wrote of her lover, "from her lips I take Joy never-ceasing."

In 1919, the Children’s Friend published an account of the love between the Primary General President, Louise B. Felt, and her first counselor, May Anderson, who were referred to as the "David and Jonathan" of the Primary General Board.

During this same time, Mildred J. Berryman began a study of 24 lesbians living in Salt Lake. She continued her study of lesbians and gay men until 1938. Berryman’s work has the distinction of being the first community study of lesbians performed in America.

One of the women Berryman interviewed for her study, Cora Kasius, was a staff member of the Relief Society who went on to become a faculty member at Barnard College and a liaison officer for the United Nations.

By 1952, the LDS community’s understanding and acceptance of same-sex relationships was beginning to change. That year, First Presidency counselor J. Rueben Clark first publicly announced the existence of lesbianism. (Not surprisingly, he was warning Church members against the practice.) Within seven years, Church officials became very concerned about what they saw as the growing problem of homosexuality, though the term was generally used in relation to men. Since then, rhetoric against homosexuality has intensified.

The women in the mormongurlz videos appear very devout.

I see no conflict why this is a problem, with the exception of them needing to make a priesthood sandwich in order to procreate the children of Zion.

If kept secret (Mormon lesbians are excommunicated/punished all the time), I would say that Mormon lesbianism would not be as openly derided as Mormon gay men simply because the Mormon church doesn't recognize female sexuality as real. Even the Mormon websites/'official word' on lesbianism are all about MEN...men, men, men. They were sexually abused by men, they are confused and are replacing men, they are afraid of sex (as if women cannot have sex with one another), etc etc. I would assume the GAs don't even know that lesbians CAN have sex. Women aren't assumed to have any actual desires sexually, so they aren't assumed to have real sexual or romantic relationships with each other. In Mormonism, they are asexual children/dolls who need hand holding and protection and condescension, not actual sexual human beings. Gay men are considered more seriously because men are assumed to have a capacity for sexual desire and practice and because TBM men are taken more seriously in general and regarded as adults making their own choices. They are under the control of TSCC, but not nearly as much as women, who are essentially permanent little girls or mere objects under Mormon teachings.

And yes, the idea of sister wives is EXTREMELY homoerotic, if not outright bisexual. So there is a mild tolerance for closer-than-close 'friendships' among Mormon women because 1) they are not considered to have any sexual potential and 2) it's in our history.

More discussion on this subject at

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1453704

Then there's Sheri Dew.

Well,let us never forget...women are our most prized possessions...

I have known a lesbian couple for years who live in Salt Lake, one working (worked, I think she's retired) for a mining company and the other who just barely retired from the church, working her whole life in the church office building. Both are active in church and lesbian as can be, sharing a house and sharing a bed.

More power to them. They can have something homosexual male Mormons can't - an publicly romantic relationship and their patriarchal dictators won't say or do a thing about it.

It's MUCH easier for TBM women to get away with just being "roommates" than it would be for men. I've known two women couples who were pretty much in it for life.

It's too bad that they can't marry and have financial/benefit perks of married couples. They'd be booted out of TSCC even if nothing in their lifestyle changed. However an older hetero couple who may not be physical can marry and that's fine.

NormaRae Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However an older hetero couple
> who may not be physical can marry and that's fine.

But in the marvelous and wonderful resurrection the old not getting any couple will be resurrected and start procreating spirit children out of the quantumleaptillion Intelligences waiting for spirit bodies.

The Lesbians if allowed to marry would be damned and not get to fulfill their eternal mission in their existence as wombs for spirit babies.

Mormonism doesn't like to think about barren spirit wombs and wasted little spirit factories.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2016 07:40PM by Elder Berry.

An all powerful ghawd... should be able to create an all powerful ghawdess, que no?

Couldn't one of the ghawds go rogue and give females the priesthood and the power to procreate, even if it's just allowing two goddesses to, after mitosis, to pair their chromosomes and make a new being?

Heck, even a junior ghawd ought to be able to do something so minor!

Yeah, God requires sexual reproduction? It is about as silly as God creating something God can't move.