Way back in prehistory, when dinosaurs and tapirs roamed the Earth, I was a Catholic--this was before being Mormonized.

Good times bad times (apologies to Led Zep); I did manage to pick up a few ideas as a Papist. One is that PRIDE is a bad boy. It can lead us to do many stupid nasty things and it can soil many of the otherwise good things we do.

Case in point: LDS. The stench of pride is all over the place. From those flaunting their "callings" to those crowing their testimonies to those publically handing their tithe envelopes to the bishop to the bishop himself bullying the members to those bragging about their breeding. Often the pride hides behind a false humility. I suspect that many of those acting humble have actually talked themselves into believing that they ARE humble--why yes, I'm a priest and with a drop of oil and touch of my hand am also a healer, and it's quite a burden to bear, yessiree bob, but I do it because I love Jesus blahblahblah...

The church pays lip service occasionally to humility--I think I heard it mentioned once or twice in the Gospel Principles class--but humility has long since been swamped by the certainty of the True Believer soldiers marching in arrogant lockstep.

Mormons try to cover it by using a sickly sweet tone of voice which is the same as pouring syrup over the fishy substance.

When someone uses a microphone to announce how humble they are...there's a problem.

what gets me is the focus of every meeting is "how blessed I am" particularly when people brag about their families. Children, grandchildren, wonderful spouse for 40 years etc. They never seem to get around to talking about Jesus.

One man I know who is well respected said that he made a covenant with god that if he would be given a big job with a great salary then he'd have as many kids as humanly possible. It came to pass, and so it must be true? god blesses the proud I guess?

And on the subject of breeding, the focus on the dead and temples creates an atmosphere of my ancestors were better than yours etc. Perhaps that's true that some families have a fancier legacy to pass on but it's not something that should be talked about generally. This pride leads to clannishness and nazi Aryanism doctrine. The worship of some mythical over 6 foot race blue eyed, blonde hair, dymorphic featured (pretty boy) race of people.

NIce that he and God worked that out. How many kids did he personally "have" that is, give birth to?

when I was a member we had the 'pride' lesson in priesthood one sunday
the subject pretty soon got on the subject of, 'if it's OK to be proud of a good job well done' or 'if it's OK to be proud of your son/daughter'
it got bogged down with everyone saying how we should/shouldnt be proud of 'X' or 'Y'
I made the comment that 'if we were having this discussion in another language they probably have diffeent words for different sorts of 'being proud'
It went silent - all eyes turned to look at me.... the silence lasted maybe 5 seconds....
then brother so-n-so said' well I am proud of my son's exam results'............and the discussion went back to whether that was a sin or not

when I told my four kids that their TBM grandmother didn't think she was self-righteous they laughed their asses off. Proud mama here.

Touting three degrees of heaven, and a temple to which only the most "worthy" can enter, is not a system designed to encourage humility.

This, what I will call "boasting", was something that I never got used to when in the cult. I will admit that my outlook in the boasting and pride area to begin with were not healthy due to my home background, but what I often heard in the hallow halls of cultdom often made me clutch my teeth.

Ex-DH, his current very TBM wife, and their family drive me (and my ex-mo kids) crazy with their smug, superior attitude. They like to point out both their humility and the fact that they are just better than the rest of us. They don't seem to be able to recognize the irony there.

They're not the only ones, though. I used to hate RS because it was filled with catty gossip and snide passive-aggressive remarks. Whenever I pass through Happy Valley, I overhear the same kinds of conversations in public places; Mormons say "non-member" in the same furtive voice they use for sexually-transmitted diseases.

It's not surprising; TSCC teaches members they really are better than everyone else because they've chosen to live the Gawspel and will be exalted someday, with the next-best people as their servants for eternity. If that doesn't reek of pride and superiority, I'm not sure what does.

"humility has long since been swamped by the certainty of the True Believer soldiers marching in arrogant lockstep"

Not doubting that for a moment. But I do wonder, is it possible to have both certainty and humility? About anything? About religion, pro or con?

JAR

Excellent question, JAR. I weigh in on the "no" side. I can't be certain. Humility wields its soft hammer (again).

Which is why I count myself in the "agnostic" column, even though the evidence says, IMO, "atheist." I've been wrong so often I have to doubt myself--doubt returns, pats me on the shoulder and says, "I'm with you, buddy. Relax. It's okay."

I'd make a crappy eye witness. Criminal attorneys--defense or prosecution--already hate me because I'll waste their time, and the crime hasn't even happened yet.

What bothers me is pride in feeling better than others based on what someone thinks God believes about them. Or the pride in being the one true church or in manipulating others to be more devoutly mormon. None of those things are praiseworthy in my opinion.

I also have a problem with parents who want to take the credit for what their children do. Children make choices and we're proud when they make good ones but it's the kids who deserve the credit, not the parents.

You mean like this?

My TBM to the Max brother announced in a family meeting years ago that no only was he humble but also "pure of heart." Then he announced that he and his kids were all consecrating their houses so that no unclean thing could enter. I didn't want to visit anyway.