A good TBM friend of mine (as in, genuine friend) just asked me the other day if I didn't remember the good times I had in the church. I know some of you don't share this attitude, but I genuinely enjoyed being Mormon, for a while, and I still can see how being a member has been somewhat beneficial in my life.

In case anyone wants to steal it, here's my full answer:

"I won't forget the good times I had in the Church. Certainly not. I also won't forget the experiences I've had with the Book of Mormon. Many of them were good. But, for example, I also had good experiences and good times in elementary school, and still, I'm no longer in elementary school. Just because I had a good experience doesn't mean that I will continue to live in that time period forever. Of course, religion is supposedly a long-term commitment, but I'm still quite certain that my time in the Church is over. If for nothing else, then because I have some very serious doubts about whether I believe some of the very core teachings of the Church to be true."

It is totally up for grabs.

I have doubts about core doctrine too. Not because I wanted to stop believing, but because I could no longer believe the impossible. Science and math mean something in the 21st century.

As Sherlock Holmes said, once you exclude the impossible whatever is left, however improbable, must be truth. Although to be fair, in this world are 7 billion versions of the truth. And the wheels have fallen off Mormonism so what can you do but leave it?

Or stay, but that subject has been beaten to death here. Staying is just plain unhealthy even if you find a way to make it work.

My husband asked something similar, 'but it wasn't all bad?'
I said no, not all bad. I had good times, but there's no going back once you have seen behind the curtain, or unplugged whatever. My best memories were of being a YSA. After that it became soul destroying.

blakballoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My husband asked something similar, 'but it wasn't
> all bad?'
> I said no, not all bad. I had good times, but
> there's no going back once you have seen behind
> the curtain, or unplugged whatever. My best
> memories were of being a YSA. After that it became
> soul destroying.


This was my experience also...absolutely crushing/stifling/depressing

I converted in the early 60's when the LDS Church was very different, from what I can tell, to what it's like today. It was a very different time and age also. Fifty years makes a big difference in our society.

We had a lot of "good times." We had progressive dinners, at times. Holidays were fun. There were picnics at the beach, water fights, dinners, entertainment, dances, etc. for adults and the whole family.

We had Firesides with lots of guest speakers, met in homes about once a month.

We had Theater/Drama for the youth. I was a director for some years. I wrote a play from contributed stories of polygamous families in the ward that was quite entertaining. I even brought in my 1800's bedroom furniture for the set on stage as the play took place in the bedroom.

We had Roadshows. I was a writer,producer, director for many years. I wrote words for songs, dialog, and story lines.

We had joint choirs which were excellent. We sang a variety of really great music. (No restriction to the Hymnal!) The kids had huge dance festivals. with costumes, and rehearsals. There were basketball teams. (Funny part about that was the swearing ref!)

I got along fine with the LDS Church for the majority of my membership years. It all started to get really dicey and crazy in the late 90's when most of the fun events had been cancelled.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2016 01:58AM by SusieQ#1.

The good times: road shows, dancing at mutual, hayrides, ward breakfasts, pot luck and the ward bazaar, considering ourselves superior to others and blessed to be Heavenly Father's chosen.


The bad times: The endless droning meetings, fasting, working on the church farm, building the ward house evenings and Saturdays, home teaching, no fun on Sunday, listening to conference, never seeing my bishop father, and being terrified that I was gay.

Yes there were good times. But you put them on a scale with the bad and the bad plonks to the table. Also the good times most mention followed at trend--they were secular.

Just trying to be reflective here: In the military I sometimes had to shit in the woods and couldn't wash my hands for days. But there were also good times. I guess. I dunno. Were there? My dad was a violent drunk and was in jail a lot. But there were also the good times, like when he wasn't violent or in jail. I guess.

Hmm. None of this seems to be working very well. Maybe I'll give it a rest.

+1000...dude..that was funny. It's all relative ain't it.

WHAT GOOD TIMES?

Love it. Thanks.

For me, actually, the good times were when we held bazaars, car washes, road shows, dance productions, and big-ass picnics. Thems were the good times. But they did away with ALL that by the early 1990s, and now all there is is sacrament meeting.

I am having a hard time remembering any good times. Sundays were a waste, I stressed every month about visiting people that did not want me to visit, I would starve myself once a month for no reason, I would give 10% of my pathetic first-job-out-of-college salary when I could barely afford to live, and oh, I was suicidal for having gay feelings.

I am glad some people liked it, but I was absolutely relieved when I figured out it was a fraud.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2016 06:33PM by seg.

I was convinced this was life and how life is. Then I left. I didn't think I had a choice to leave. I thought if I did, I was going to hell, so I put up with the abuse from other mormons. Supposedly it wasn't abuse.

The best I was ever treated in mormonism is when I was with my gay ex-husband. He was cheating with men and ex. sec., but I was treated well by ward members because they loved him. He knows how to play the mormon cultural game.

My ex was the first to say that I, myself, never was happy as a mormon. He told that to our TBM daughter.

All, but one sibling is out. All my nieces and nephews and their children are out. One TBM grandchild/great grandchildren--my daughter, who was taken out of mormonism about the time she was baptized and went back at age 20. The ward was so happy to have one of us back that they treated her like royalty and still do. She hates Utah though. She chooses to leave every time she comes back. Maybe sometime she'll move home after she decides mormonism isn't for her any longer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2016 06:45PM by cl2.

But the better the times, the less they had to do with Mormonism.

Shouldn't that be telling us something?

Exactly. I had some great times in the "church"...experiences that I'll never forget, but they had nothing to do with the truthfulness of the "church". I would have had just as much fun boating, camping, fishing, playing basketball, etc... even if TSCC had nothing to do with it.

I can't think of any "gospel"-related parts of church that were enjoyable. I sometimes enjoyed church as a kid, but only because it was an opportunity to goof around with friends that I didn't get to see all that often.

As a grown-up, all the fun non-churchy stuff is gone. You quickly realize that church was never uplifting. It just becomes a chore. You can't leave church every week feeling beaten down and wanting a nap without soon noticing that something isn't adding up.

Good times only equaled YW camp at the John Johnson Farm, a couple dances and Youth Conference.

But Mormonism for me was like a crazy marriage. Yes, there were good times, but would I want to go back? Hell, no.

The good times or the bad it matters not for the upper echelon.

The goal of the apostles is to get the church paid.

Great experience with the BOM? Church gets paid.
Fantastic Scout outing? Church gets paid.
Sucks to do Ht'ing? Church gets paid.
Need a Temple recommend? Church gets paid.
Need a Temple recommend, but not worthy? Church gets paid.
Need to disbelieve but don't want to lose a spouse, job, family? Church gets paid.
Get to clean toilets on Saturday? Church gets paid.
Gold and Green Ball memories? Church gets paid.
Lovely singing and enjoying the choir on Sunday? Church gets paid.

Name one thousand more and Church gets paid.

It does not matter and Church gets paid.

The second the Church does not get paid that is when it becomes personal, and it never leaves behind happy memories.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2016 08:11PM by AmIDarkNow?.

One more event I forgot was at Christmastime. Members and non members allowed their "Creche" collections to be displayed in the old stake building gym area along with a program that featured choirs from several different groups. My husband's hobby was photography so we have dozens of beautiful photos of the over 400 or so displays he took over two or three years.

What I found most interesting was the how every culture and group of people created a Creche that depicted them. They saw Jesus Christ as like them so we had Native American, South American, Korean, Japanese, and dozens of other Nativity scenes that looked just like each group of people. Some were huge, some were tiny.One of the women in the stake had a huge collection that was brought in each year.

No

It dawned on me a few weeks ago that I was happier in the morg before I ever stepped foot in the temple. The moment I got my endowments was the moment I put the noose around my neck. So, pre-temple? Quite happy. Had some fun, met some cool people despite the religion. After that, depression, cognitive dissonance, pressure to be perfect, and general weirdness set in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2016 09:03PM by laurad.

The analogy about looking back at it as being in elementary school is a good one.

I had many good friends all the way through school, but I have never really enjoyed being around my peers at church. In fact, I never even wanted my real friends to meet the youth my age in my ward. I didn't mind them knowing I was Mormon. I could dispel any bad rumors they'd heard about it (I was the only Mormon in my school), but I could not overcome the impression that the other church youth would have on their opinions. The boys in my Sunday school class were hell bent on making every Sunday school teacher breakdown in tears. Somehow, they seemed to always succeed, no matter which sister was teaching. From my earliest recollection, I must have always separated the doctrine from the people walking the halls. That's why even after learning of the corruption at the top, I still believe the Book of Mormon & D&C are true and that Joseph Smith was the real deal. There is one part of Mormon folklore that the ex-mormons still believe. It's the false claim made by church leaders that if the Church is true, the living prophets will never lead you astray. No, even if the BoM and D&C are true, corrupt church leaders can still lead the church astray. The New Testament has taught us that even if Christ himself sets up the church, it can still rot and die. The statement that gets embellished by modern church leaders is that “the priesthood will never again be taken from the earth.” Well, you don't need an incorrupt church, or even any church, for that to be true. Many exmormons mistakenly believe that the incessant call to “Follow the prophet, Follow the prophet” is church doctrine. Christ's doctrine is to follow Christ. The Book of Mormon doesn't have much nice to say about the church in our day. “Why have ye polluted the holy Church of God? ... because of the praise of the world?” (Mormon 8:38) Mormons should have enough sense to know what the “holy Church of God” is. If you're Mormon, you don't need inspiration to know that it's not talking about “those Baptists” or “those Catholics.” But in my many decades of weekly church attendance, including all general conferences, no one has ever given a commentary on this verse. If Mormon's had to offer up one verse as the sole instance of mistranslation in the BoM, it would be this verse. It doesn't fit the new mythology.

And what about:
“Ye do love money, and your substance, and your fine apparel [and the Church-owned City Creek Mall where you can buy them], and the adorning of your churches, more than ye love the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted. (Mormon 8:37)

What's not to like about that description? Who can say it isn't true?

Another false implication is the twisting of Jesus' observation that “By their fruits ye shall know them” to mean that all the great things Mormons do proves that Church doctrine is true. Nice theory. Just happens to be false. It could only prove that the person who does good is good. I prefer to do business with honest-looking non-Mormons than honest-looking Mormons because I trust the non-Mormons more. Why are Mormons on average more false than non-Mormons? Several thoughts come to mind. The non-Mormons are not sinning against the greater light? The non-Mormons don't listen to weekly talks that have been neutered of most truth, in imitation of church leaders? Or, Satan has worked harder to plant tares with the wheat? Or, good members have been driven out of the church by corrupt local church leaders? The list could go on.

Just because I like algebra and know that it is good, doesn't mean that the other students in my class are good or that the teacher is any good. You couldn't walk into a class of rowdy, slouching, or debauched students and their intellectually lazy and unprepared professor and make many meaningful judgments about the truthfulness of the topic of their course. They need to be examined separately.

I look askance at all of it and test it all with Moroni's promise, and I have found myself throwing out much of whatever has been said by any Mormon leader besides Joseph Smith. This is where I have ended up at the moment.

I'd like to bear my testimony that Joseph Smith was a bonafide piece of shit. He deserved to die a violent death, and the world would be a better place if the delivering doctor had "smothered the little cuss" at birth. There is not a chance in hell that the BoM, BoA or D&C are "true". Keep studying.

My good times consisted of skipping out of church to go to the local convenience store and then after I got my own car, joyriding with like minded delinquents.

RB

I have a bit of rose coloring on my glasses when looking back at my past history with Mormonism.

But I think I can definitely say that young Mormons now got nothing on my experiences.

It is a gutted bunch of corporate gunk that leaves even the believers left with weak testimonies and empty social experiences.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2016 01:26PM by Elder Berry.

Mormonism stole more "good times" from me than it ever gave.

I lived a sequestered life growing up. My mother limited my exposure to people and opportunities outside of mormonism as much as possible. I left it in my 20's.

I went back into the church in my 30's.(long story) I can't say it had much if anything to do with good times. We went to church, but were lucky enough to live 30 miles away from the closest mormon. It prevented us from having lives that were completely swathed in the mormon life. The majority of our life was secular, and we went to church on Sunday.

When I moved away from that town and into a place that put us closer to people in the ward, is when I started to really question the busyness of mormonism. The invasiveness of it was an intrusion on our family life. It wasn't a good thing.

A few years of that, and then going on line to find some answers to questions, and that was the end of being mormon. Swish, done. Spouse and kids felt the same way. We couldn't come up with anything that was good about being mormon. Nothing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2016 02:07PM by madalice.

Mormonism is like a poorly run private school at which even the adults are expected to behave like children. You never graduate and you never get to leave, if they have anything to say about it.

For some people, school is full of happy memories, because the school they were in suited their personality, interests, attitude about life, goals, because they felt important or successful there, and because they had good friends/family/teachers to see them through.

For other people, it was a nightmare they couldn't escape, because it was poorly suited to who they are and tried to force them into a mold they could never fit, or because they had horrible teachers, crappy family support, friends who weren't friends, etc.

No doubt there are people who had good times at Special LDS High. No reason not to value what was meaningful for you! But it doesn't change the fact that the school was terrible for others, that it didn't want you to grow up to be an adult and live by your own values, and that it was all a sham because it was never accredited: it was never a real school and all the time spent there trying to gain credits and fulfill assignments was meaningless. Only the relationships you developed had meaning, and you could have developed them without all that baggage somewhere else.

That's what I'd tell a TBM friend if they asked. It had its moments, but it is and always will be a lie that is far too damaging to other people for me to ever support it again.

abcdomg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormonism is like a poorly run private school at
> which even the adults are expected to behave like
> children.

More like a military school.

"We are all enlisted till..."

I think the good times shouldn't be totally attributed to the mormon church. I think most of us might have had better times if our parents had taken us to a nicer church like Congregational or Presbyterian.

I was happier during the time my parents took me to another state where I met nonmo kids and learned about the normal people of the world.

There was an old Chinese proverb that was once related to me that says it better than I could but I don't remember exactly how it goes. So I'll put it in my own simple words.

No matter how nice it may be to exist in a world of ignorance and fantasy, it is still ignorance and fantasy. A life lived with a willingness to accept truth and reality is not a guarantee of a more pleasant nor happy existence. The character in the Chinese proverb goes looking for pure truth and finds that those who refuse to follow his search for truth are blissfully happy. His teacher carefully explains that one cannot find truth without seeing the ugliness in the world that goes with it. I don't like some of the ugliness of truth (existence of war, murder, torture, crime) but I'd rather see it than be kept in the dark and not know what is really happening around me.

Mormonism is like the proverb. It asked me to believe that a man calling himself a prophet could give me a promise of eternal bliss and the answers to life's unanswerable questions but I had to suspend my knowledge about reality. I prefer to take life as it comes to me truthfully rather than wearing blinders. And I will decide for myself if it is or is not preferable.

I remember when social events were just that-time to unwind and have fun. There were no "teaching moments." I remember when the holidays were celebrated. We would have decorating contests with the various wards and there would be judges. All in good fun though a few were a bit too competitive. There were basketball games with men and women leagues. I was on one and the women could really get into it. Progressive dinners were fun and people actually talked about things other than the church. I remember lessons being challenging and it was ok to ask questions. Being social is as important as the learning. Somehow it all got lost somewhere.

allegro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somehow it
> all got lost somewhere.

When their actual history was starting to come out and their leaders started focusing on business and politics instead of people.

Around the 90s. Hinckley is the face of the face lift but even my great grandfather Hugh Brown probably helped push for it with his nephew Nathan Tanner to increase the affluence and influence of the church.

Their "interesting" connection.

"N. Eldon Tanner was the nephew of Hugh B. Brown (Hugh's sister, Edna, married Nathan W. Tanner, and they were the parents of N. Eldon Tanner)."

And other connections.

"Elder Victor L. Brown, the 10th Presiding Bishop of the church, was closely related to three other General Authorities. Elder Victor L. Brown's father, Gerald S. Brown, was Elder Hugh B. Brown's brother, thus Elder Victor L. Brown was a nephew of Elder Hugh B. Brown. Elder Victor L. Brown was also the 2nd-great-grandson of Samuel C. Lee, as was President Harold B. Lee. Thus, Elder Brown and President Lee were 3rd cousins. Elder Victor L. Brown was also related to President Nathan Eldon Tanner. Elder Brown's 2nd-great-grandfather, Nathan Tanner, was also the great-grandfather of Nathan Eldon Tanner. Thus, Elder Brown and President Tanner were 2nd cousins once removed."
http://www.ldsfacts.net/apostled.htm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2016 07:20PM by Elder Berry.