when he screwed his followers wives and teenage daughters?

I have.

It didn't end well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdhV3839RA

I wouldn't expect that it WOULD go well. Poor guys. I don't agree with approaching them out of the clear blue like that, then filming them and posting it - sort of shaming the victims in my view. But then, I couldn't watch to the end, as I was very uncomfortable, so I can't judge based on its entirety.

P.S. - I really think the faces should be blurred out or take it off. I actually think it's bad PR for ex Members. Next time, just roll down your window and throw your half-empty milkshake cup at them or something and be done with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2016 03:05PM by seekyr.

Uh, we're already "Sons of Perdition" who'd be better off slitting our throats and stomachs and spilling our blood and guts on the Earth, according to our Mormon friends and family, and you think PR is going to change their opinions of us?

I got news for you.

THe world's biggest army of Doomsday Sex CULT brainwashers is out there every day going around door to door trying to convince your most vulernable and gullible neighbors to sing the praises of a known sex offender, and you'd rather Mormons just STFU about it and leave the 'victims' alone?

They're the chosen representatives of an institution that exploited 5 generations of my family by lying to them. They're still lying, only now, they know it. There is no excuse, 18 years into the Google age, for grown adults to not do their research prior to volunteering to go out and promote a fraud.
I think it's high time we shine a bright light on the abusive lies, not STFU about it and shame those who have the courage to expose these lying, immoral sacks of shit.

First of all, I think most of them "volunteer" because it's pretty much EXPECTED of them to volunteer. It's like a rite of passage in the LDS church.

Most of these guys have been taught certain things all their life and they trust the people that taught it to them. If they had a pleasant enough church experience, as many do up to that point, they might not have even felt a need to get on the Internet to poke around. Shoot, they don't necessarily even know what questions even to ask.

I don't think anyone has to "STFU", but using your knowledge to attack and shame missionaries out on the street, I believe, is counterproductive to bringing them to the truth. More likely they are going to recoil from it.

This video bothered me and I'm just gonna go ahead and say that.

I take my ques from Ayan Hirsi Ali who said, "I cause Cognitive Dissonance in them, which will either drive them insane or drive them sane. I hope for the latter, which is all I can do after all."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuaMHiMsRuY

Bill Maher's "Religulous"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/

And Dawkins, "The Root of All Evil"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nAos1M-_Ts

Which you'll NEVER see on American TV.

I take my ques from Sam Harris's, "The End of Faith"

It's time we debunk absurd doomsday narratives, before it's too late. None is more absurd than Jospeh's Myth, except perhaps FUndamentalist Mormonism, but at least they're not out knocking doors every day.

Thanks for sharing.

I liked Dawkins, who remarked that this should be an age of Reason, rather than one of militancy.

It's an honest question, but it won't get a straight answer since Mormons tend to evade them. I have a similar question. What does it say about the Mormon god to command Joseph Smith to steal other men's wives and to "marry" teenage girls much younger than himself? This isn't what comes to mind when people say God works in mysterious ways. There's nothing mysterious about destroying established marriages and taking advantage of underage girls. I trust that any divine being would want its creation to use the superior brains they were given before jumping ship to "there's no explanation right now." There is in fact a very credible explanation! Ignoring it hurts the people getting scammed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2016 04:57PM by demoneca.

"THe world's biggest army of Doomsday Sex CULT brainwashers".....this gets old. You seem really angry sometimes.0

It royally pisses off the OP that not everyone thinks like he does, and he's devoted enough to his cause to keep on keeping on. Eventually we will all be clones of the OP and he can rest.

His point of view will someday fill the world (of ex mormonism). Like a pissed off, rough stone rolling.

if your friends and family members were still being raped by this doomsday sex cult and there wasn't shit you could say about it because it just wasn't polite to bring up in mixed company.
Yep. I know of kids being raped by Mormons and nobody gives a shit about it. Not CPS, not the Cops, not the Church, not the parents, not my parents, not my siblings, not my wife, nobody gives a flying fuck about it, not even the kids who've been raped. Why?
Because they don't want to ruin the life of the Penis holder who raped kids and is still likely raping kids because everybody protected him.
My entire scout troop was raped for the same reason. And when it came to light, they covered it up, in order to "Preserve the Good name of the Church." IOW, their egos.
They didn't want the stink of child abuse on their names so they all covered it up, my dentist, my Oral Surgeon, Boeing Engineers, they all covered it up and didn't give a shit.
And now kids at BYU are being raped because they go to a school named after a rapist that tells them to cover their shoulders so they don't cause boys to rape them, which they can't report, or they get kicked out of school.
Yet ExMo's prefer the "See no evil, Hear no evil, speak no evil" approach in the fact of all of this.
That's what enables it to continue, not speaking up.

The missionary denies that he's selling Joseph Smith. He hates the song, "Praise to the Man." That's an interesting point of view for a Mormon missionary.

I think your conversation is more than fair. The missionaries are out selling religion and they need to get used to hearing another (highly informed) point of view.

I took a different tack the last time I encountered a set of Mormon missionaries. I let them know through conversation that I was very familiar with the church (and yet deeply disinterested in joining, lol.) I recommended "Rough Stone Rolling" to them as I felt that it was something they could comfortably read, but that would give them a more rounded view of their so-called prophet.

Because they aren't taught the real history. Only the whitewashed version that the morg leadership wants the members to know.

It's not that they were not taught. That was my excuse. They're just not interested in hearing anything that doesn't fit into their little box tied up with a neat little bow.

Now, it that it's all on LDS.org and all over the internet they grew up with, they should at least be able to answer the obvious questions the general public is going to ask about the abusive sexual predator who's praises they sing every Sunday.

They represent the church. Feigning ignorance and naivete doesn't work in the middle of the information age.
Acting like you're not interested in the life of Joseph Smith, when you're spending 2 years full time going around door to door selling Joseph's Myth, is nonsense.

I guess like the song says, we all must be traders and tyrants for mocking him in vain. After all, everything has to be black and white in the mormon cult, where original and critical thought is steifeled. But those do not have to be our limitations after we leave that life behind.

I wanted to start with that first, because it's not all black and white, which brings things back to the OP. It wasn't right of you (the OP) to ambush those guys like that. There are a lot more effective ways to damage the church than to ambush the lower level drones (who might be nice people) that way.

To me, the world is like the Matrix. When Neo entered the Matrix, did he go after the average people walking the streets, or just defend himself from the Sentinals as necessary? Once in a blue moon when I enter a mormon church building, or talk to the missionaries, all I see are the average people walking the streets, who know nothing of the Matrix they live in. And when Neo fought the Sentinels, it was his mind that made him win, not just the karate kicks and punches alone. To win against the church you've got to: 1.) Leave the civillians out of it. 2.) and Find ways to defend against the Sentinals as necessary 3.) While you find effective ways to dismantle the infrastructure from inside. The Tom Philips method is a good start. If you ever get a meeting with the Architect, you'll know you're on the right track. For those who didn't see the Matrix, sorry I left you out on this one.

Also, every person and every organization has their own personal kryptonite. Finding out what that is and how to get a lot of it on the church is more important than going after strangers who believe they're doing the right thing.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2016 06:19PM by azsteve.

All I see when I see two guys walking down the street looking like Agent Smith from the Matrix, is exactly what they are, THE official representatives of the Doomsday Sex Cult that has preyed upon and victimized countless members of my family and friends of mine and they're still doing it. Still lying through their teeth every day to promote this abusive CULT to foist it upon unsuspecting victims, lying by ommission, like they have been for over 180 years.
Now, when the church has come somewhat clean about it's founders perverted sex lives, it just can't say that cuckolding your followers by raping their wives is wrong, but they can say that babies are 'unworthy' of being blessed in their Doomsday Sex CULT if they happen to have parents who are the same sex. Bad Gabies!!! Wait, but not Bad Joseph and Bad Brigham for cuckolding their followers by raping their wives?
Isn't that kind of hypocritical?
And I'm just supposed to STFU about it while the world's biggest army of Doomsday Sex CULT recruiters goes around trying to victimize my friends and neighbors by lying to them unchallenged?
Please.
WHy do you defend these lying sacks of shit?

I don't defend them. If you see my approach as a defense for the church, than you are locked in to forever being a victem, with no hope of escape. You need to control the paradigm. Don't let them control the paradigm. You set the rules (within acceptable legal limits). I was once a mormon missionary myself. I believed at the time that I was doing the right thing. Now, I want to use everything I learned as a fulltime representative of the church, to bring it crashing down. The first thing is to deprive them of the fodder they need to feed their myth (that you're a hater, that Satan has ahold of you now, that you're kicking against the pricks now, that you're like -sorry about this- Korihor?). Not to knock your handle. But you're not him. There's a reason that JS wrote that story, to trap people in to that story's paradigm if they ever leave the church. Like I started with, we're not traders and tyrants either. Don't believe that. You own your own beliefs, not them. You are free now. Don't waste your precious energy feeding their paradigms. Mr. Smith can't hurt you any more than he was able to hurt Neo in the end.

If you really want to harm the church, sit back and observe to begin with. Don't feed them and avoid doing anything yourself that feeds them or any of their paradigms. Use opportune moments to wage small battles that damage the church's influence in your part of our human social network. Eventually, some of your friends and family members will leave as some of mine have. Once they have left, they are worse to the church than uninformed non-members are. The longer I do this, the bigger my opportunities get to take increaaingly larger chunks of the world away from the cult's grasp.

Love and hate are pretty closely related. You don't want to hate the church (still struggling with that myself). A successful ending of a relationship comes at the point of indifference. If you were married to, and emotionally involved with a terrible person, at the end of the relationship you would probably expose them and their crimes. I feel like that's what I do to the church, at every appropriate opportunity.

So the real question is: How do I meet the Architect? What harms him? How can I remove a foundational piece that brings down the whole oppressive structure? I don't have those answers yet. But I can always achieve at least a stalemate when the Sentinals come after me. They don't bother me any more except that every once in a while I discover an unhealed piece from my past that I need to fix and move on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2016 07:09PM by azsteve.