There are around 100,000 people in my city, some 20 to 30 of them would probably self-identify as Mormon. Needless to say, I don't run into many of them (I also spend a lot of time sitting in a room without windows, digging through huge data sets - that might also be part of the reason...). I think this was actually the first time I've talked to a member since I left.

We actually had a good friendly chat for about 10 minutes in the frozen foods section. My branch president isn't really TBM, I would say. He's probably just in his position because the church lacks more "valiant" alternatives. That appears to happen a lot over here in Germany.

Well, after about five minutes of random small talk comes the unavoidable "we've really been missing you at church!"

I then briefly explained to him that my concerns about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, the way the church treats the LGBT community, and just some general issues with the current leadership prevent me from coming to church in good conscience (i.e., without dying of cognitive dissonance).

What he then answered surprised me. He said he had the exact same (!) concerns as I. I thought he would just draw up a little feel-felt-found (salespeople know what I'm talking about), but NO! He went on to explain his own doubts about the church, its history and doctrine in detail! I was struck by some happy confusion, until, well...

"But in the end, we got to remember that the gospel is perfect, but the members and even the leaders of the church aren't."

Oh well, it's a start.

I wouldn't take that blather too seriously.

Sounds like a New Order Mormon. I know afew who attend and believe but have a lot of issues with leadership and policies

Agreed. My question is what else is left after you eliminate the leadership and policies? Leadership and policies are what differentiates one denomination from another.

I haven't run into any Mormons in Germany... except for when I saw a couple of mishies in Tuebingen years ago.

Them: "We've really been missing you at church."

Me: "Well you know where I live, right? You have my phone
number, right? You haven't been missing me at all. You're just
saying that because you think it's your cult duty to put the
cult first in everything."

Too many times this happening. Gospel Doctrines teachers, HP Quorum pres, Bishopric members, etc... They're the first that are having to deal with "The Essays" and researching into lessons and dealing with member's questions...

So, they're having to do real mental gymnastics or flat out denying the "round world" philosophies of men. I feel no sympathy for these people. I do have empathy, their spouses, families are so into the cult (many have kids on missions or at BYU or about to temple marriage etc...) that they feel locked in. They can't seem to "come out".

The reason I have no sympathy is that because of their lack of courage or ability to face facts; generations have been and will keep being "born into the covenant" and the vicious financial, verbal, mental and emotional abuse will keep going on and on and on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2016 05:18AM by dydimus.

Whereabouts in Germany? My TBM brother is stationed there right now.

A total copout answer. A church IS its members.

+1

Yes. The reason they've "got to remember" is that it isn't easy to remember and that's why being Mormon means reminding each other constantly that the Mormon gospel is true like absolutely for sure, no really. Honest. Now where was I?

I got the "we miss you" from my former stake president in the grocery store after we left. It must be in a manual somewhere.

Right. You miss my tithing and endless hours cleaning your restrooms and dealing with your brats in young-mens. The feeling is not mutual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2016 05:07PM by redpill.

The whole "The Gospel is Perfect" remark is a deal breaker for me because it is all about obedience. I don't obey well. That would be my response.

RB

Actually the Gospel is about LOVE. It's the church that is about obedience. I hope as time goes on more and more members will learn to differentiate between the Gospel and the Church. I hope that because I am stuck in it because of my TBM wife that I love.

IMHO there is NO love in either the gospel, leaders or church.