Ever - I would say William Law, who was in the 1st presidency. Technically I guess he was axed though. All that led to the Nauvoo Expositor though so it has to rank up there.
If you're talking about this millennium though? Wasn't the guy who basically got the ball rolling on the "Swedish Rescue" a few years ago a 70? or maybe he was an area authority.
Grant Palmer was pretty high up in CES.
On a side note - supposedly Amy Adams and Eliza Dushku are former/inactive mormons. They're the 2 hottest apostates and I would say both in the top 100 hottest women alive right now.
> If you're talking about this millennium though? > Wasn't the guy who basically got the ball rolling > on the "Swedish Rescue" a few years ago a 70? or > maybe he was an area authority.
I would like to see one of the Q15 show up here. They could use a handle like "anon_GA", or "bigears_speaks_forgod", and tell us how badly they hate their double life at the top of the pyramid, while they ask for advice on how to get out with their reputation in-tact. No one would even question who or believe who they really are. Institutionalized madness in action....
George P. Lee was in the First Quorum of Seventy from 1975 to 1989 when he was excommunicated after writing a letter calling the FP and 12 to repentance for scaling back their "Lamanite" theology. Later it was found that he'd molested a 12-year old girl.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2016 02:52AM by baura.
John C. Bennett was a counselor in the first presidency, first Mayor of Nauvoo and Commander of the Nauvoo Legion. TSCC claims he was x-ed but that exing was back-dated!
John Huntsmans granddaughter, pretty girl with the dark hair said she just didn't buy into it anymore, resigned, and has married a non mo. (unthinkable!)
Joseph smith supposedly was backing up from being tbm when he told the stake president of Nauvoo that polygamy was all of the devil. And he'd been deceived. He later tried to run away in a small boat across the Mississippi but was unsuccessful (M. Hierarchy origins of power)
John Morris (the 12), early settler of Uinta/South Weber didn't like B.Y. autocratic rule/violence and started meeting and gathering followers creating a new branch of mormondom. B.Y. didn't like that and some of them got blood atoned for it.
Mathias Cowley and John Taylor Jr. of the 12 were disciplined for going against Senator Smoot and taking on post manifesto plural wives.
Frank Cannon son of 1st presidency, leading diplomat for statehood, and director/Editor for the standard examiner, leading voice for the liberal party (democrat party forerunner) was excommunicated in the 2nd stake of Zion, and parted ways with the bretheren.
I wonder if a GA has ever been on a site like this just to see what's being said by the ex's. It seems like they'd be a bit curious, or maybe a bit jealous. We have something they will never have. Freedom from mormonism.
It's possible, but not likely. In the 90s I worked for a major religious denomination and I was the person who monitored the "anti" boards for the church. Not much was done with the information and the highest ups didn't look at it at all.
I would give good money to see the internet history files for the 15. (Despite the 'fact' that the Internet is full of 'unreliable sources' of information). :) The odds would have to be good that at least one of them has accessed RfM and likely trolls it on a regular basis.
LeGrande Young (he was bishop of our ward) told us that a Prophet whom his dad hometaught, actually avoided reading anti-church material by actually stapling together the pages of the Song of Solomon so that he would not accidentally read it. If someone of that level would avoid reading a book of the Bible, I am sure the 15 would be mortified to read even the essays.
Gordon Bittner Hinckley, apostle and president for 48 years.
He established a personality cult within the church and denied basic Mormon doctrines while intending to receive praise from the secular media. He also diverted tithing funds to enable the multiple crimes, including murder, committed by a secret apostate.
His name shall live in infamy throughout the eternities.
Historischer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Gordon Bittner Hinckley, apostle and president for > 48 years. > > He established a personality cult within the > church and denied basic Mormon doctrines while > intending to receive praise from the secular > media. He also diverted tithing funds to enable > the multiple crimes, including murder, committed > by a secret apostate. > > His name shall live in infamy throughout the > eternities.
Good point, and I think Hinckley's problem was more individual than familial. Others from the same exalted heritage turned out to be normal folks? That's actually quite reassuring. I think Gordon's grandfather and uncles would have been more shocked than anyone at his behavior. And I can almost guarantee that at least one of his grandchildren has no "testimony" whatsoever. After all, it's already happened in the Kimball and Benson clans.
As far as murder is concerned, I don't think Hinckley wanted anyone killed. But his highly irregular use of church funds did put a secret apostate on the road to murder. Either moral scruples or spiritual discernment--or preferably both--would have saved the victims from an ugly death. But having purged the higher church management for several years, Hinckley operated without any accountability whatsoever.
Given his contempt for church doctrines and organization, and the uniquely selfish type of reverse consecration he practiced throughout his life, I'd say that no man has ever excommunicated himself more thoroughly from the LDS church than Gordon Bittner Hinckley. Which would be fine, as he obviously didn't believe, but he often pretended otherwise.
My testimony has been unraveling for about a year and a half. I began lurking here last November, posting every now and then. The essays were what started it all. I was 100% TBM my whole life. I finally realized it was all a fraud several months ago. My husband knows and is very unhappy about it. I don't expect him to ever "defect." He always hopes that something will trigger the spirit back for me.
We served a mission in a foreign country more than a decade ago and it was a fantastic experience. I loved the missionaries with all my heart. I could never be tough or uncaring about them. I tried to spoil them when I could. I still love them.
I look forward to someday being completely open about disbelief, but I think it will take a long time. I'm taking it slow.
I appreciate this board so much, where we can be open yet anonymous. It has kept me sane, and helped me when I had no one to talk to. Thank you so much.
Are you in a position to tell us if you and your husband have had the second anointing?
There's continuining discussion here as to what levels are likely to have received it (stake presidents, temple presidents, mission presidents and their wives).
Considering the number of current and former mission presidents and their wives in the church, it's not surprising in the internet age that some of them no longer believe. There's at least one former MP who has posted on this BB for years as SLDrone. Also, a former president of the OKC temple has left the church.
Some people tend to think of "upper-echelon" Mormons as being stronger in the faith or more spiritual, and thus less susceptible to abandoning the church. The truth is, there's no difference whatsoever between high-ranking members and regular folks as far as the truth claims are concerned. The differences would be more along the lines of the level of societal pressure that high-ranking members receive from family and church friends to stay the course.
It's nice to hear that the essays are what got things started for you. You recognized that what's written in the essays is a far cry from what we were taught by the church in previous times. Any rational, intelligent person should deduce that two conflicting versions of church history and doctrine cannot be true, and that the church has published those essays in part to correct the falsehoods which the church itself has dispensed in the past. For instance, the mere fact that the essays admit that the priesthood ban was totally wrong and based solely on racist ideas of past church leaders should make every rational, intelligent Mormon realize that those past prophets held no communication with any Supreme Being. And that alone destroys the church's claims that it's led by a "living prophet."
Thanks, randyj, for your kind words. You are right, I am no different from anyone else. I was duped just like most of us were. I may just be more visible and will be criticized openly. But aren't we all?
No, no second anointing. I had never even heard of it until I read Tom Phillips story (did I get his name right?). I had heard whispers of calling and election made sure when I was a youth, but never knew that there was a ceremony for it. I am sure some mission presidents and their wives receive it, but not us.
I had several things on my shelf, that I was sure I would get a good explanation about someday. Racism, polygamy, temple weirdness, and I always hated righteous anger and judgement. I just didn't think about those things.
Then I read the essays, and found out things about Joseph Smith that I never knew. There is no good excuse nor explaining away his bad behavior. Racism essay was bad, disavowing previous prophets? But they said it was from God? That led me to read more and more. Gay marriage rights was big for me. I was so upset when the policy about children of gay parents came out. I found Mormon Think. Wow, they know how to present the truth, all verified.
But I couldn't deny my testimony. Until I saw a you tube video showing people from various religions, bearing testimony just like we do. That's when I realized that good feelings don't necessarily equate truth. And I began to accept that I had been duped. I also saw (I think on here?) a list of characteristics of a cult. We fit the whole list, but maybe on a lesser scale than Moonies or scientology.
So, thank you essays, thank you Mormon Think, and thanks to all of you here on RfM, my eyes have been opened.