Hi. I've been an active lurker on this site for a few months now and thought it was about time I registered and introduced myself. I'll try keep it brief:

Born into the Church. Active most of my 27 years, with a few exceptions along the way. Been "inactive" since the birth of my little girl, 16 months ago (too tired to be honest! And who wants to waste time getting all dressed up for church only to spend the whole time trying to keep a tired and fussy 1 y/o happy and quiet.. a waste of time!). Having a boy in July, so using this pregnancy as an excuse not to go. (and no, there will be NO more children after this one!).

Became interested in "investigating" the church at the end of last year after my husband's friend's parents announced they no longer believed the church was true and were leaving. Got me thinking, "why would anyone choose to leave the church?" - thus began my research...

Didn't take me long to come to the conclusion that the church isn't what it claims to be. I have spent the past several months pouring over website after website about church history (not the sugar coated make-you-feel-good history), church doctrine and personal stories of people who have left the church.

It's been exhausting - have felt many strong emotions along the way. Recently toned down my investigation a little, when I finally accepted that I wasn't going to find all the answers overnight (plus it was exhausting me, mentally and physically, and I realised it was affecting my ability to be a good mummy). Seriously, the more I read, the more I HAVE to read, and the more I read, the more I realise how many issues there are with the church. It's become a bit of an obsession for me, although as I mentioned, I have toned it down a little.

I'm coming to accept that this is only the beginning of a long journey. I have SO many questions and I want to research everything about every single issue I come across. It's a bit of a daunting task.

My husband, bless him, has been very supportive on the whole. He's not exactly TBM himself and would be considered "inactive" too, although he still wants to believe the church is true. I'm okay with that. I appreciate that he hasn't made a big deal about it. He has told me on numerous occasions that he will always love me and we will always be a family no matter what. "Even if the church isn't true, I still believe we will be a family together forever" - that's what he said to me the other day.

Still, I sometimes panic that one day he'll decide he doesn't want to stay married to an "apostate". I joked about it one night and told him to give me plenty of warning if he didn't think it would work out, but he didn't think it was funny and told me off for thinking like that. "I married you because I love you. I didn't marry the church" (we had a civil marriage - he had been inactive when I met him and his Bishop told him that he didn't think he was ready for a Temple marriage, but if we put the date of the wedding back a few months he would be - we didn't change the date though for various reasons... and I am SOOOO glad we had a proper wedding! Got sealed the following year, but that's another story).

I know there are couples/families out there where one is a member and the other is not. I guess it helps that my hubby isn't active at the moment - he goes along to church maybe once a month (if that), but doesn't expect me to go. We don't discuss religion - never really have - because it usually ends up with one or both of us getting mad/upset and it's not worth it. I used to share my "discoveries" with him, but I don't offer information anymore unless he asks me.

How do people make it work? I don't want to lose my husband, I love him too much, but I keep having nightmares about him leaving me. Doesn't help when I read stats about how marriages with 1 member and 1 non-member/non-believer are less likely to last... =(

And then there's the whole thing about kids... DD was "blessed". Hubby wants DS to be blessed too, after he's born. I'm okay with that, I don't really mind either way (not like it means anything anyway). But in 7-8 years I'm going to be faced with the whole baptism thing and I do NOT want my children being baptised. Well, I don't know. If the church is not true, then any ordinances performed don't count, do they? Eh, it's all too much to think about right now.

Anyway, sorry this is long. It feels good to unload! I don't really have anyone to talk about all this stuff with, so if you've read the whole thing, thank you for "listening". Any tips? I'd really appreciate it =)

It is about how you can tolerate each other's differences, and not only on the matter of religion.

As for divorce stats, they are horrendous already. And worse for second and third marriages. There are just lots and lots of ways for marriages to break up. Religion is just one tiny slice of the rich possibilities.

You are already a long ways ahead if DH generally supports you. Count your blessings. And, he gave you a very good answer about marrying you not the church.

Re the kids you might wait until a year or two ahead of time and ask the question and have a discussion. If you can't reach agreement then an investment in a family therapist might be very, very worthwhile.

Far better early than late. Don't ask me how I know.

Best to you.

Simply mentioning what you find and asking him a questions about it is a huge step in making certain you two are on the same page. If he is a resistant to the info at first, slow down and modify how much or how often. Chances are that you will both be coming to the same conclusions if you communicate and share.

I did this with my DW and children. Kids were teenagers. Wife was a total TBM. Once she started seeing a few cracks, she took off on her own investigation and she was the one coming to me with information. ALL of us came out together. Much easier than having a sucky church trying to split the family up.

You sound like you have a very understanding hubby and you can be counted as one of just a few from what I read. The baptism thing should be discussed each and every yr. leading up to it. YOUR feelings deserve as much attention as his. And if I recall (I am nevermo) if you are out of the church then, the child can not be baptised til 18. So you have a big decision to make.

I am sure you do not want your own to go on a mission so you have 8 yrs. to make sure that doesn't get talked up so much that he is leading that direction even at 8. Good luck and you were smart to start investigating as you did. You are going to be saving some sweet kids a lot of pain. You say you worry about your hubby changing his mind. Well, if you do worry, then speak about these matters more often instead of less often once the new baby is born. Best wishes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2011 11:50PM by honestone.

Venting on RfM is quite therapeutic because most of the time nobody here is going to judge you. Yeah sometimes it happens but oh well. It's why I post so often here. It just feels good to vent and help other people out. Plus the humor is fun and even though I'm the guy that usually posts dick jokes that really wasn't one.

Anyway, I digress. It sounds like you're actually a lot better off than most believer/non-believer combos. I have absolutely no way to verify the statistics on this but I think most TBMs who would divorce over the Church would do it soon after your initial announcement. The fact that he has said he married you and not the Church is a big plus.

You are in a very similar situation to me. I've made stuff work for the past few years but I foresee things hitting the fan when it comes child baptism time. Not from her so much, but from her overly intrusive in-your-face TBM family. I know that they will make a big deal about it and cause her a lot of stress. Though I'm fairly certain she'll still stay with me I am already pissed at the inevitable pain that it will cause her.

I've actually considered the cost/benefit scenario of faking reactivity just long enough to get the baptism part done for the dog and pony show so that relatives won't hurt my wife, and then going back to doing things my way. For me that works because--and I can't emphasize this enough--I just do not give a sh!t what anyone thinks of me unless they sign my paychecks. It's for her pain not mine.

As for the baptism. It's fake. Won't hurt em (unless of course they have those ear infection fluid shunt things). I'll teach my kids exactly what I think and they can choose for themselves what they want. With at least one parent's blessing for freedom no doubt most if not all will choose it. If not, oh well. Some people need that security blanket of being told how to think.

It's easy to say don't worry, much harder to actually not worry. Just remember that when God closes a door he opens a window, because God has serious intestinal issues.

Thanks for your replies, I appreciate you taking time to share your thoughts.

Marv - good point about tolerance. There will always be differences of opinions when it comes to marriage and there's always going to be some give & take. I guess I panicked a bit because I grew up in a good Mormon family, always saw myself marrying a Mormon and religious differences just never occurred to me as being a possibility.

Dane - I started out by sharing some of my research with my husband, but it seemed to be doing more harm than good and I don't want to cause any more stress for him at the moment (He or I or both of us would end up mad/upset at each other!). Life is stressful enough for him at the moment with work (he runs a business from home) and money and health issues and the impending arrival of our little son, so I decided it best to pull back a bit for now. I still hope that he will someday see the truth too, because he has, in the past, voiced his own doubts and he acknowledges that a lot of the questions I have (which I have shared with him) do appear to pose a problem.

I guess it's easier for me in some ways, because my own family are all inactive (Dad still believes, Mum has her doubts, my brother and sister are completely inactive) and they live so far away anyway. Hubby's family are all close by and all very much TBM (except one brother), and I think if he were to leave the church it would be a lot harder for him. I can only imagine what their reaction would be (I'd actually rather not think about it to be honest).

You're right though, I think I just need to find a happy medium for sharing the info with him. As for him doing his own research, he simply doesn't have time. The business keeps him very busy and we like to try and spend whatever free time he has together as a family. The other thing is, he's very critical of what sources all the information comes from. I try to find reliable sources for my research of course, but he's quick to dismiss anything that looks remotely "anti".

Honestone - I didn't realise if one parent is not a member their child cannot be baptized until 18... I'm liking the sound of that. I have of course thought about resigning officially and it's certainly a possibility. I am reluctant to do so at the moment for various reasons - I feel I need to do more research first; and being pregnant and soon to have 2 under 2, I just don't think now is the right time. Definitely a possibility though.

Man in Black - I certainly do feel lucky to have such an understanding husband. It used to upset me that he wasn't "more active" (and I feel ashamed to admit that now), but now I can see it as a blessing. Like you, I have kept quiet about my recent change of beliefs about the church, especially around hubby's family. I do not want nor feel the need to justify myself to anyone, least of all them. For now, to keep the peace, I am happy to keep it to myself (and hubby).

sarah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Honestone - I didn't realise if one parent is not
> a member their child cannot be baptized until
> 18... I'm liking the sound of that. I have of
> course thought about resigning officially and it's
> certainly a possibility. I am reluctant to do so
> at the moment for various reasons - I feel I need
> to do more research first; and being pregnant and
> soon to have 2 under 2, I just don't think now is
> the right time. Definitely a possibility though.

I don't think this is 100% true. As far as I understand it, both parents have to be in agreement and sign documentation for a child to be baptised. If the nonMormon agrees, the baptism can take place. If the nonMormon does not agree, then the child will have to wait until they are 18 or until the nonMormon gives in and signs the paperwork. Agreeing also carries with it the promise to continue to raise the child Mormon, of course.

Simply having one non-believing parent doesn't bar a child from baptism altogether. Both parents are supposed to agree and give permission. I actually called LD$ Inc. and asked when my children hit 8. I'm a nevermo and wanted to make sure they wouldn't baptise behind my back.

That's not to say there aren't a million stories out there where the Mormons go ahead and baptise anyway on the sly. One mother found out her parents (the grandparents) baptised her children without her permission or knowledge. I've read plenty similar stories, so these things do happen, just something to be aware of.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2011 09:09AM by omreven.

Well, I assumed if she was out then she would be against it and not sign to allow it.

Agree.

The way you presented it, and what I read in her response, it sounded like if there was one non-believing parent in the household, the Mormon church would not allow a baptism at all, period. Just wanted to clarify. Especially if she thinks, gosh-golly, with one un-believer, I don't have to worry about baptism at all, "rules is rules," but a child can be baptised even if *neither* parent is Mormon, so whether parents believe is a non-issue - they just have to give permission, supposedly - there are still the baptisms on the sly, lying for the lord and all that...but supposedly baptism requires permission by parents and/or gaurdians.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2011 11:04AM by omreven.

I am a never-mo and my TBM brainwashed had our oldest son Baptized when he was 8, against my consent. In fact against my screaming and crying.

They will not consult a person who is going to say no to a childs baptism.

Or at least no one asked me.

This has been updated from time to time, and reposted.
It may or may not be helpful.

Making it work with a believing spouse. That has been my situation for several years now.

I am often asked about how I do it.

This may or may not be helpful to anyone else, but it's partially how we have kept our marriage of nearly 48 years together. (This is a repost)

This is an overview and a little background from some prior posts.

Everyone's situation is different. It requires compromise, negotiation, some things that are not always easy to do.

I recognized, early on, that I needed to accept that we both have rights.
There is a right that we often forget. :-)
The right to believe in Mormonism.
That comes into play when one partner changes their mind about their beliefs in the LDS Church's claims and the other holds onto them.

I was a convert as a young adult woman---Mormon for over three decades--certainly, if anyone understood that I would! As a young adult convert, it was my "adopted tribe." I adjusted to the culture shock, especially when we landed in Utah in Wymount Terrace Married Student Housing. It wasn't easy, but I made it work, including trying to find work. Besides, I am a bulldog - I have a tenacious personality, I will do the work to find a way for the best outcome!

When I could no longer accept or believe the claims, (another story for another time), I had a big dilemma: how do we handle that in our marriage?

I was done. Through. Not going to be a Mormon anymore. I needed to tell my husband, and interestingly, he accepted it and asked what I needed from him. I told him I needed him to live the 11th Article of Faith and he said he would, and he has. He had some warning. He knew I was not content with many things in the LDS Church for some time.

(11th Article of Faith: We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. )

Also, it seemed reasonable to "take turns" about a few things. We had done it his way for over 30 years, now he could do it my way, about a few things. And we have! :-) We had some rough spots about that, but we worked them out.

I completely stopped attending the LDS Church in my late 50's, sometime in 1998 after some traumatic events. The last one was The Man in the Restroom story. That was the impetus for figuring out "what is wrong with this picture" and lead to months of research and study, much on line and from books and from a family member doing the same thing. A few years later, my husband retired. I had retired earlier from my last business that I owned. Late,I resigned my membership, officially in 2002.

One Big Lesson I needed to learn,(after making a big mess):
just because I changed my mind, that is no guarantee my spouse will,or anyone else for that matter. We cannot control other people.

And why would he? Initially, I had the expectation that if I changed my mind, everyone else would. Ahh...not so fast, it does not work that way. Everyone else (LDS folks I knew) wasn't even interested in what I had to say! In fact, they thought I had lost my mind or at a minimum been offended. Well, sure, I would say, if everyone that had ever been offended didn't come to church, there would be no one there! :-)

But that was not the reason I left. The claims--that wild whopper (metaphysical, supernatural visionary claims), that whipper snapper Joseph Smith Jr. told about golden plates and angels, etc. that created the God Myth that is still working today cemented by it's generational, cultural, traditional religious rituals.

I am 100% certain that there is no way my believing husband of over seven decades will change his mind about his beliefs in Mormonism. I used to think it was just a matter of some information, or hey, look what I found, did you know this, but I did not take into consideration the immense power of the spiritual witness and the power of the belief by faith. That was a wall I could not surmount. And, believe me, I tried.
The power of the spiritual witness is at the core of a testimony.

What I initially failed to take into account, was the power of that belief by faith that others have, that is paramount in Christianity in general, as I well know, coming from a long line of Christian ministers. Nothing new there. They didn't change their faith, or change their mind either. Still haven't.

Well. ....What to do?
Hmmm..... I needed to set some priorities and make a decision that would have the best possible outcome and pay attention to some basic facts of life: nobody can change anybody else. I had to sit with that for a long time to finally "get it." I have a "fix-it" personality. I was sure, initially, that I just needed to change my tactics.Not so. I needed to understand that some things were not within my power and to let it go.

I had to do the work to let go of the emotional attachment to the expectation (a little Buddhism helped me with this), and that I did not have the power to change another person. That was a biggie! My observation is that few people in this life ever "get" that one!

Did I want to be one of those folks that hang onto the emotional attachment to negativity: anger, hate, bitterness, resentment, disdain, etc? NOPE. Not me. I don't like being treated: less-than, or stupid, dumb, or not OK especially because of my beliefs. Why would I want to do that to someone else?

I have the kind of mind that sees: The Big Picture, takes an Objective View as much as possible, and finds the middle road that works most effectively with compromise and negotiation. I know the power of negativity on the whole person: mentally, and physically. I was not going to "go there."

I determined to keep my self respect, and self confidence in top shape and not fall into thinking patterns that would sabotage my process.

Then I needed to ask myself:
Can I make peace with that?
Can I let it go?
Can I leave it alone and not make it an issue? (This was very hard, initially!) Can I just be quiet about it and not harp on it to people who don't give a rats arse?

Then I learned something that took me a some time to finally "get" -- it's only an issue if I make it one! That's true about almost everything in a marriage relationship.

Ahh... I had options -- and lots of them. I didn't have to make my decision into more than it was -- nor make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Maybe, sometimes, people just give in. They can't out-talk or out-fight their partner, they are worn down, exhausted, can't fight anymore, so they acquiesce and go along to get along! But did I want that? Clearly -- no.

Maybe, just maybe, the marriage and that investment of love, time, family, financial, emotional issues, etc. is much, much, much more important that a difference of opinion about some beliefs !

Could I make peace with that? You bet I could! Probably helped a lot that I was a convert and had a couple of decades of life prior to Mormonism that was part of who I was also.

I realized early on that I needed to give myself permission to do the work to find my own path to inner happiness and peace. And, that is what happened, little by little.

Making Peace with it all was not a conscious goal, it was the result of the process of rewriting thinking scripts left over from Mormonism, (another post with a long list!) seeing The Big Picture and creating my new World View, all the while protecting my self respect, self confidence, etc. I was OK all along. Making peace with my life, all of it was the natural result.

That meant I was learning to process the past, let it go and focus on living in the Now. It's not easy; my mind, like most folks, likes to go back and rework things, repeat the past in my head, fix what is long gone. But did I need that? NOPE! Sure didn't. That included making peace with my life as a Mormon and making peace with my life as a former Mormon. That meant I needed to understand something about the past: there were no: wouldas, shouldas, couldas, what if's. (Another big subject)

It required that I do the work to change my thinking. Change my thoughts. It's only a thought. I was the one to change my attitude and change my focus. Just thinking about it was overwhelming.

So, I had to practice some skills. They were new ones. I did some study, research, read a bunch of books, took classes and found out what I needed to do for a positive outcome while making major changes in my World View.

I needed to learn the skills of focusing on today, having an attitude of gratitude. I needed to learn to be more skeptical, use critical thinking skills, less gullible; be more objective, think in terms of the Big Picture, think about what I wanted to accept and believe from any source. No more: go along to get along, agree just because someone else is doing it, or believes it, or suggested I do it. I took every idea that came into my head, apart and analyzed it.

More conclusions:
Some things are just not worth fighting or arguing about for or against.
We can't all be the same.
We can't all believe the same things.
We can't be everything to anyone all the time.

AND:
What did I want for myself and my family: I wanted everything that was within my power. Next I had to figure out what was within my power and what was not.

I decided: I am not going to give up anything; not one iota of my investment in my family, home, marriage because I changed my mind about my beliefs in Mormonism. We are people first. Beliefs second. Once I set that priority and kept it firmly planted in my mind, life started to flow peacefully. It was like opening up a damn that I had constructed within myself. When I let go, things began to flow much more smoothly.

The result: we have a peaceful life for the most part; he is a believer and I am not. He has his beliefs, and I have mine. Do they agree all the time. Absolutely not. Why would we? Is it OK to argue, and make a fuss? Sure it is. We can do that. We can be passionate about our differences. We have agreed to disagree. And, why not? It's OK. We can do that, no matter what the issue is.

I hope to get to 50 plus years of marriage in Aug of 2012, and not let something as insignificant as a difference of opinion about religiously based claims and belief by faith divide us or our family! Do we have to work on it? Of course we do!

So.... life goes on and on and on.
We make the best with what we have.
The older we get, the more changes and health issues we face. Some very scary ones! It's a struggle, but it's always worth it.

We play the cards we are dealt. Not everyone gets the same cards!

I chose well. My spouse is a good man. And, I am told, those are hard to find! :-)

It is not always easy, or smooth sailing, but with a little effort and a positive attitude it is so much easier! Resentments and anger melt away in the face of a positive attitude and laughter. Laughter really is the Best Medicine.

There was no room for negative self talk, or negative energy either. I knew I was OK. I knew I could do anything I set my mind to. I have to slap myself around some times and knock some sense into my head...again, and again....and admit my errors, take responsibility, make amends, and start over, dozens of times, but the more I stay on course, stay focused on what I really wanted for myself and my family, the easier it becomes.

Appreciation is an amazing power supply. It's like magic. Practically nobody can resist it! It's surprising how far a simple compliment will go! A -- thank you!
Just walk down the street or drive your car with a smile on your face !
Say something to get a laugh from someone. They won't forget you. It will break down barriers and open doors.

I have learned that life is best lived with a sense of humor. A lot of laughter every day. I'm so convinced of the health benefits of laughter (well documented) it ought to be prescribed by doctors!

With what years I have left, I have given myself permission to get to the laughter, find the fun and enjoy my life. A smile and laughter is contagious! Practically nobody can resist that either!

Difference of opinions, in the long run of a very long life with good people are really not that important! ahh... What a relief to know it's OK to let go, let it be, don't let the past mess up my present....... and just ....enjoy today!

Love is the greatest power!

[These are my observations and conclusions. They are subject to change as I receive "further light and knowledge"!-]

Thank you Susie for sharing that post. I got a lot from it! Excellent =)

Not many LDS spouses reassure their doubting mates that they married them, and not the church. That's awesome!

I would avoid saying anything negative about church leaders or doctrine. That tends to get believers very defensive. It's much safer to discuss science, or question the value of attending so many meetings. Or ask how you know if the spirit is talking to you or if it's just your own emotions. My husband was able to criticize the Noah Story with me without me reacting too badly. Just bring up stuff to make him think, but not feel attacked.

Steven Hassan has a couple of books on helping people find their way out of cults. One is Combatting Cult Mind Control, and One is Releasing the Bonds. I've read the first of those after I left the church. Somehow, my husband figured out to do what Mr. Hassan recommended, and I ended up questioning and leaving. And it felt like it was on MY timetable, MY idea, and there was no conflict or pressure one way or the other.

His website is freedomofmind.org and he's got a lot of useful info on helping loved ones out of cults.

BTW, I think that the fact that his parents left will just make it easier for him to question. I'm guessing that family pressure sometimes prevents people from even DARING to question. But he knows he'll have supportive parents and wife now, should he question. Maybe now you should find a good group of non-LDS friends, and worthwhile activities outside the ward, too?

Also, I wouldn't worry about the baptisms. That's so far off, and the kids are so young. So much can change before then. It's no use to create conflict over something 5+ years from now that may resolve itself.

Sarah, this comes up so often I wrote a brief paper on it. If you have an email address you are comfortable having me send it to, you can email me.

My email is rbrtbaumgardner@yahoo.com.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2011 12:59AM by robertb.

I second what the posters above has said, esp SuzieQ#1 because she is living it. I would like to copy some advice which I gave to a man who was in your position and thinking of leaving his wife and four children over the split in their view of the Mormon church.

I include this as an initial focus because it is easy to be overwhelmed by the size of the task, marriage being hard enough even when you both agree. Don't be discouraged because this can actually bring you closer together on the deep level that the LDS church doesn't even acknowledge:

MADE MY WIFE CRY


It's important to realize that you are the one changing the deal. When LDS marry, they marry roles, not people. Simply remember the counsel of the voicebox of God, Spencer W. Kimball (the one with the shitty marriage), paraphrase:

Any good man and any good woman can have a successful marriage if both are faithful to the principles of the gospel.

So much for "there's no one like you in all the world, you are special, blah, blah, blah"

Given that backdrop, when someone awakes from the deep sleep of indoctrination and begins to individuate back to a personality, they go through a period analogous to the twenties. Trying on behaviors, swear words, sorting out politics, etc. Figuring our what your opinions are and finding the place that your opinions even come from, creates an instability that is apparent to the person closest to you, your wife. OF COURSE, this is threatening.

To your wife, this is her worst fear. She will love someone who doesn't love her back because he no longer operates according to the template. So strategy number one is to shake off the slime from your escape from the Matrix and say to your wife, "I see you."

Tell her you see the person underneath the role and this person you love. The role is not who she is. If she changed her politics, you would still love her. If she changed her career, you would still love her. If she gained weight or lost weight, or became addicted to exercise, or dolls, or cats, or became a hoarder, you would still love her but would want to negotiate her behaviors that effect your comfort.

Now you are asking her to see you. To see you the person who is metamorphosing into a more authentic person. You need her support- you are not moving away from her, you are just becoming more of who you were meant to be.

Let her grieve the loss of the template. Don't think she doesn't love you or accept you. This is a process that requires great insight on your part if you want to save your family. Don't listen to these assholes who tell you to leave her. You have four innocent children--why scar their lives when you don't have to. If you are patient, you can save them and save your family from the Morg. They will thank you when they are grown, I promise you.

I would walk on live coals before I would let the Mormons destroy my family.

Hugs and encouragement to you,

Anagrammy

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I second what the posters above has said, esp
> SuzieQ#1 because she is living it. I would like
> to copy some advice which I gave to a man who was
> in your position and thinking of leaving his wife
> and four children over the split in their view of
> the Mormon church.
>
> I include this as an initial focus because it is
> easy to be overwhelmed by the size of the task,
> marriage being hard enough even when you both
> agree. Don't be discouraged because this can
> actually bring you closer together on the deep
> level that the LDS church doesn't even
> acknowledge:
>
> MADE MY WIFE CRY
>
>
> It's important to realize that you are the one
> changing the deal. When LDS marry, they marry
> roles, not people. Simply remember the counsel of
> the voicebox of God, Spencer W. Kimball (the one
> with the shitty marriage), paraphrase:
>
> Any good man and any good woman can have a
> successful marriage if both are faithful to the
> principles of the gospel.
>
> So much for "there's no one like you in all the
> world, you are special, blah, blah, blah"
>
> Given that backdrop, when someone awakes from the
> deep sleep of indoctrination and begins to
> individuate back to a personality, they go through
> a period analogous to the twenties. Trying on
> behaviors, swear words, sorting out politics, etc.
> Figuring our what your opinions are and finding
> the place that your opinions even come from,
> creates an instability that is apparent to the
> person closest to you, your wife. OF COURSE, this
> is threatening.
>
> To your wife, this is her worst fear. She will
> love someone who doesn't love her back because he
> no longer operates according to the template. So
> strategy number one is to shake off the slime from
> your escape from the Matrix and say to your wife,
> "I see you."
>
> Tell her you see the person underneath the role
> and this person you love. The role is not who she
> is. If she changed her politics, you would still
> love her. If she changed her career, you would
> still love her. If she gained weight or lost
> weight, or became addicted to exercise, or dolls,
> or cats, or became a hoarder, you would still love
> her but would want to negotiate her behaviors that
> effect your comfort.
>
> Now you are asking her to see you. To see you the
> person who is metamorphosing into a more authentic
> person. You need her support- you are not moving
> away from her, you are just becoming more of who
> you were meant to be.
>
> Let her grieve the loss of the template. Don't
> think she doesn't love you or accept you. This is
> a process that requires great insight on your part
> if you want to save your family. Don't listen to
> these assholes who tell you to leave her. You have
> four innocent children--why scar their lives when
> you don't have to. If you are patient, you can
> save them and save your family from the Morg. They
> will thank you when they are grown, I promise
> you.
>
> I would walk on live coals before I would let the
> Mormons destroy my family.
>
> Hugs and encouragement to you,
>

Find what resonates with you, then put it into practice. There are principles of thinking and behavior that, once they are put into practice, hold a greater degree of keeping a family together.Sometimes, that means, making Mormonism a non-issue and keeping a positive attitude, showing love, and exercising an attitude of gratitude.

I agree with this statement with a slight addition:
"I would walk on live coals before I would let the Mormons" --OR ANYONE OR ANYTHING ....destroy my family.

It is so nice to hear that so far he has been supportive of your choices! I hope this isn't too long, but I can share what has helped me.

My relationship with my husband started with him moving from an FLDS faith to Mormonism for me. This was a very long 1+ year process because of his past religion. It had given us time to think about the religion. But by the time the year was up, we had both moved away from Mormonism in many ways. It was a sham to keep my family happy. After the baptism, we stayed away from Mormonism and ended up eloping.

Eventually I made the major step of denying Mormonism outright. And this is where it may have gotten a bit rocky. My husband didn't care too much about religion, but didn't want to hear criticism either. Eventually after talking a lot about it and some fights we came to a mutual conclusion that Mormonism wasn't something that we ever wanted to be involved with again.

Most recently though, he has been a wonderful support for me studying and being involved in Buddhism. It was difficult at first to express my want to be part of a religion again.
The only things that got me through all of this mess with religion was being able to listen to my husband, be patient, and to be myself. It was much easier for him to understand me when I was being honest. There are times when it will be appropriate to share the things that you have learned with your husband. And it is important to understand how hard it is to listen sometimes. If you can keep the lines of communication open with your husband I think it can really help keep an environment of love and acceptance.

I hope at least some of this can help!

Ask him to stay home from church and help you with the new baby for the next year, then make weekends more fun.

The more he stays away from church, the more the brainwashing will wear off.

To Sarah:

There are so many people in your situation. You may find more suggestions from people who have been there at http://packham.n4m.org/spouse.htm - what to do and what not to do, including suggestions on how to get the most out of marriage counseling (from an exmo counselor).

Also, email me for some info I would rather not post: packham@teleport.com ....

Richard

Have sex and lots of it. Oh, and make creature sounds while yer at it.

Just sayin'...

Ron

"I might consider having son blessed if I could take part in it, and not just be an on-looker."

The blatant sexism that is to inherent in Mormonism would be a major deal-breaker for me. To sit back passively (complacently, like a good little heifer???) and let the men do it all is beyond distasteful.

[No, not calling you a heifer, just that churchy men all to often treat women like heifers.]

Just a thought. Wherever the discussion goes, you must remain calm and refuse to get upset.

I love what anagrammy said (such a wise woman) "I see you and not your role."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2011 01:52PM by serena.

imaworkinonit - thanks for the suggestions, I agree about avoiding outright negative criticism, it doesn't accomplish any good. I've found that with my husband, he responds better when I ask thought provoking questions. I've also found that leaving articles or websites open on the computer is a good way to spark his interest too... e.g. yesterday I looked up on the church's Family Search website to find a list of all of JS's wives and find out a bit more about them - hubby asked about it and I was able to share with him some of the interesting (disturbing) facts about polygamy that we never hear about at church. He, of course, was quite shocked to find out that many of JS's wives were already married and that the youngest were 14 - but as I pointed out, it's right there on the church's website. Can't say that's anti-Mormon! (I also asked him what he thought the purpose of polygamy was - he said to take care of the widows etc, which is pretty much what I used to think too. Then I pulled out the D&C and read the verse in 132 which basically states it's for having lots of sex and lots of kids. I left it at that, but I think it made an impression on him..)

Anyway, thanks also for the books you suggested. I will try to get hold of them myself, they sound very worthwhile books to read.

anagrammy - interesting post, thank you for sharing. Good point about LDS marrying roles rather than people - so true! I never thought about it before (so many things you don't think about when you're blinded by Mormonism!). It helped me realise that religious differences don't have to be a huge deal.

And thanks to everyone else for your comments too =) I won't take up anymore space to thank you all individually, but I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

the same way that people of other faiths and those ppl Not of Faith:

Thru love and the choices that build-reinforce it!

I have a TON of quotes ready to share... Pls email me at amarkanders777@gmail... put Love Quotes Please in the subject line...

Learn about Love, Practice Love, BE LOVE!

Good Luck, tscc has Everyone be dependent upon the GAs for the most trivial of issues/matters.