My brother is the EQP in his ward here in Utah. He lives in an area where the church has been struggling for a while. They've had a hard time finding men to fill leadership positions throughout the stake for years, and last year they closed three wards in the stake.

My brother knows a fair amount of dirty church history and has had his share of doubts throughout the years. However, the cognitive dissonance is strong with him. I believe he would have left the church by now, but he has a lot to lose if he were to ever leave. He married into Mormon royalty and would surely lose his marriage and high paying job by leaving. He NEEDS it to be true.

We were recently talking and he was ranting about his EQ. He said almost the entire EQ is made up of NOM's. They won't teach EQ, they won't do home teaching, they openly talk about only showing up for EQ because of their wives, they openly bad mouth Joseph Smith if his name is ever mentioned, etc... These men show up every week, but none of them are TBM's, and my brother feels like he has to carry the ward.

They have dozens of members in the ward that have requested no contact, but the bishop won't put them on a no contact list because he doesn't want to report bad home teaching numbers to the SP. None of the EQ will do home teaching, so he has a few dozen members that the bishop has asked him to visit EVERY month...members that don't want any contact. I feel bad for him, but I can understand why he doesn't want to admit the truth. Still, something's gotta give.

Anyways, I though it was interesting that, even after a huge stake consolidation, they still have a ward with almost no active TBM men. All is not well in Zion.

I assume that everyone in Utah knows someone who left the church and nothing bad happened to them.

So they can see that the church is not true, because if it were, happiness would be impossible for apostates.

There is no return on investment for all the tithing paid, missions, countless hours of meetings, home teaching, toilet cleaning etc. There is no fun, no enjoyable social activities and little to no benefit to the community, so why would anyone be enthusiastic to be an active Mormon today? The financial cost is high of being a temple worthy member. Many must work long hours to support themselves and their families. I think what you have described is occurring across all of Mormondom. The only enthusiasm, if it really exists and not entirely due to social pressure, is from 18 and 19 year old missionaries.

I know someone who was the bishop of a student ward. He complained to me that his ward members were all inactive and breaking the law of chastity. Translated into non-cult language, it means they were being normal college students.

Normality will be the death of Mormonism.

East Coast Exmo Wrote:
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> Normality will be the death of Mormonism.

Today it is easier than ever for Mormons to step outside of the bubble and get a glimpse of real life. And they're finding that real life is good, even if it is sometimes a little scary.

I also feel that once people no longer care about going to the temple, the church will have lost the battle. The church will have nothing to hold over the flock. I suspect that the temple-building frenzy of recent years has much to do with this.

"They won't teach EQ, they won't do home teaching, they openly talk about only showing up for EQ because of their wives"

I've speculated in the past that if every TBM spouse were to cease activity along with their non-believing spouse, activity rates would drop about 10% immediately. It's the TBM wives who want or need the social group that the church provides that's keeping the church from falling apart.

"These men show up every week, but none of them are TBM's, and my brother feels like he has to carry the ward."

The reason for this is that the church continues to teach its bogus origins and history as the truth, when lots of attending Mormons obviously know it isn't. It's sorta like if you were a member of a church that actually teaches the Santa Claus story as literal, serious truth.

This phenomenon signals that the church has pretty much lost the battle on the issue of its founding story and claims to power and authority. When even the *active* members know it's bogus, youve lost your credibility.

On this subject---I met a lovely young Mormon lady a few weeks ago who moved here from Idaho. She attends the same chapel my wife and I did, and she knows some of the same members we used to. I told her some of the reasons why we left the church. She kinda hinted that she didn't believe the whole story either. She treats Mormonism more as her culture or tribe. She even mentioned the internet group called "Why Not Stay" or "Stay Mormon" or something like that. I got the feeling that she's a "new order Mormon." It's really more of a social group or a culture for them, rather than a literal belief system. This is the only Mormon I've met and discussed these matters with for many years. I suspect that there are a lot more just like her. Even one of my active Mormon nieces told my wife several years ago that she and her hubby don't believe in the Joseph Smith story. She's in it more for the family aspect, food preparedness, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2016 03:10PM by randyj.

Do these NOM's pay tithing? And if they do pay, do they pay a full tithe?

It became impossible for me to give money to the corporation once I knew it was a sham. But I can see having to give some amount if the wife is forcing the issue.

I don't know if they pay tithing. It doesn't sound like they're temple attending members, but I wouldn't be surprised if they pay something because of their wives. This is in a very wealthy area, so TSCC would be missing out on loads of money if these guys stopped paying tithing.

The Monument North Stake near This is the Place / Hogle Zoo just shut down. Sounds like tithe paying is not popular in Zion.

AnonInUtah wrote: "...my brother feels like he has to carry the ward."

He feels that way because he DOES have to carry the ward.

It's not the responsibility of the NOMs or the exmos or anyone else to do the work if they're not sold on the product. He shouldn't blame his customers. It's not the fault of his customers if his product sucks.

The transition from literalism to metaphor/symbol/etc will be painful for many but ultimately, I'm guessing, successful, over this next generation.

The question will become, then, will those of us who left because of LDSinc's past literalism feel somehow burnt?

I think you are right human. I just don't know how they are going to do that without backing away from the restoration of the 'one true church' and 'prophet of the lordy' bs.

It sounds like my job. Over the years, my urban school district has loaded an increasing amount of work on teachers. Every year, it's more tests, more paperwork, more committee meetings. At the same time, supports to teachers have been removed. Finally, anything that previously made the job fun, interesting, or rewarding has been systematically removed.

I've been waiting for the tipping point, and this year it finally arrived. Young teachers are leaving for greener pastures. Experienced teachers are retiring or retraining to get out of the classroom. We are losing (or are in the process of losing) half of the teachers on my wing.

The Mormon church is in a similar position. It has demanded, demanded, and demanded from its flock while systematically removing anything fun or humane from its programming. In my opinion its day of reckoning is coming.

Same thing with nurses. More and more paperwork, charting, recording and less time with the actual patients. Now CNA's are doing more of the face time with patients and nurses basically push pills and keep records.

Kind of like Mormonism. Push the dogma pill and count the checks. But don't waste your time actually caring for the members. They need to take care of themselves and leave us leaders alone to count the influx of money.

Good nursing analogy. My RN wife was in transplant for 26 years. Her comparison with the church- which she hates- is just like yours.

Gatorman

I stopped attending last year after 30 plus years of active membership. And where I live you could count on one hand -out of the 3 stakes- the number of people who had 'apostasised' from the church in the last 20 years. But I have to agree with the OP, there are so many these days who have left because of the new direction and untruthfullness of the church. It is severely affecting my ward in particular where they are struggling to fill callings. The latest news is that the HP group leader and the ward mission leader have stopped attending after approaching leadership with their doubts.

I see comments from active members on other forums who try to negate or minimise this exodus of members from the church. But it 'is' happening right before our eyes like a slow-mo car wreak.