Here's a piece of pretty big news from the heart of the Morridor:
Friend began looking into a few things about a year and a half ago. Previously - YM Pres, RM, TBM, from Pioneer stock.
Had many conversations with the Bishop who said "I think you'll pull through this OK"
Stake Pres brought into the scene, who couldn't provide answers to my friend's shelf questions... Now, the Area or General Authority (??) requested a visit - in their home!!
Friend said, OK, I will meet with you but in a stake office or something.
THE ANSWER WAS NO.
The GA will only meet in homes, (obviously to try for the sympathy of the spouse)
and is apparently making some RESCUE ROUNDS in Utah County.

Think good thoughts for this family- they are awesome



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2016 02:37AM by Cahomegrown.

My initial instinct was for him to hold his ground and insist the meeting be where HE feels the most comfortable- him making a request and already having it denied is already setting a bad standard for how the meeting might be conducted.

However, if it is held in his home, he gets to set the rules. It's his home. He lets them in, he decides how things get played out, he decides what is discussed- assuming he isn't incredibly passive. Ultimately, he gets to decide to tell them to leave- if he chooses to, he gets to tell them to leave his life, FOREVER.

Is this guy some millionaire and they don't want to lose a gravy train?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2016 01:34PM by midwestanon.

I'm not sure I agree on this idea that having a meeting in your own home gives one the upper hand. What if they won't leave when asked? Maybe they will keep him waiting or show up with uninvited support. Are you going to call the police? What if your spouse is there and insists on deferential treatment for these so called "authorities". Frankly, I wouldn't even want them using my toilet let alone my living room.

At a neutral meeting place or even a church building one can get up and leave at any time if feeling threatened or abused. It has the real feeling of business being conducted rather than a cozy, feel good event with the intent of "bringing the spirit into the home". What is needed here is the cold, hard reality that Mormonism is a business. Leave the warm fuzzy feelings and cozy fireside atmosphere out of it. It's a corporation that wants his money. Let them present themselves in a business setting.

Besides, after the GA had been in your home you would still see them there, sitting on your couch, spouting their condemnation and efforts to get you to come back to church.

Nasty cigar smoke would be easier to fumigate out of your home than their odious presence.

No, do not let the spirit of contention, which this GA is, into the home.

How nervy for the Regional Rep to insist they have to come to your home...

Remember they do not come alone. They would bring a "companion" and team tag you while letting their cohort check your cupboards, closets, kitchens and etc for illicit materials, as a coffee cup, banned books, magazines, tea, coffee, alcohol, etc.....

I dunno about you guys, but no one who isn't a MEMBER of my home is going to browbeat me about what happens in my home.

I concede on the spouse issue; if you have a TBM spouse, being curt and blunt about when you want the Area Authority and SP or whoever to leave and how to dictate the conversation can be pretty tricky. The OP mentioned a friend and the friends spouse, so having it in the house probably is a ploy to garner the sympathy from the spouse.

Neutral territory is good, but wouldn't your own home give you an ADVANTAGE, as opposed to a disadvantaged? Like I said above, however, this all depends on the stance of the spouse if there is one.

However someone INSISTING on coming in to your home after you've already said 'no' is crossing boundaries all over the place and is totally inappropriate; the fact that the guy already said no, and then no again, makes the point moot.

I suppose I can see it from both sides.

Why only meet in homes? Some kind of deniability? I'm surprised the muckety-muck GA would give up the control factor of making the questioner come to them.

Please, please tell the family to set up a couple of nanny cams.

And please let us know the outcome(s).

Yes! Record it! Not just for the entertainment of others, but for proof of what was said, the tone of voice, and facial expressions.

Maybe the GA will pour magical olive oil:

That's nice of them to visit. I'm surprised they have time. Sounds like a good thing?

I also tend to think that this person is oozing with money and/or the right last name. The following could also be a possibility-

the GA is doing this to show that 'Why, you bet your boots we are leaders who talk directly to members with questions. We even meet in their homes.'

I seem to recall reading on this site of another GA doing this somewhere or other not so very long ago. Could be a response stemming from recent criticism the cult has had from members in faith crisis's we say the leaders are not available to the average Joe in the church.

I think it was Bruce Holt.

Well, that's what you do when you think you are about to lose an important customer. You insist on a meeting and bring the sales director or another grand-pooh-bah along with you. Standard business practice.

The member's answer should be NO; you're not welcome at my home. Do not trespass on my property. I am in charge, not the GA.

IMO, nothing beats a couple of large aggressive dogs roaming freely within a fenced-in front yard.

Go ahead, sucka, open the gate. Good luck with that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2016 09:15AM by getbusylivin.

Utah County is the true epicenter of Mormonism. A Utah County rescue is telling indication of the true state of TSCC.

My friend refused to have the GA in the home! It was reported that the GA would be in town, and the SP was the one doing the invitations...to several/many families..

No, my friend is not wealthy- but basically he has a list of issues (SOUND FAMILIAR?) that the leadership won't/can't answer.

My friend is assuming that there will be discipline next unless the family submits to the GA Home meeting. (Heeelllll no!)

I'll find out who the GA is, and keep you posted. This is fascinating because TSCC is really putting the pressure on to reactivate.

It worked for 2 other friends: one is a cop who got a calling- no more beer or cigars on the golf course, and went back to wearing lovely garments.
The other married a year ago..really cool people, they still are BUT the wife's FB posts are all about going to the MMP in Manti, and saying "how blessed she is that they will soon be sealed"
Not sure how that works,
They are both divorced and there's 7 grown kids....

I suggest neutral territory, such as a coffee (!!) shop or library room, someplace with open internet. I'd go with my laptop and a lot of research pages bookmark, or opened and tabbed.

Recording the meeting would be intimidating and has legal requirements, which vary according to each state. Putting myself in the GA's views, I would never agree to recording the meeting. But keeping a pad of paper and taking notes is not threatening and usually acceptable.

But a laptop, or at least print-outs of important facts--definitely!

Good ideas, caffiend.

I gotta head down to the copy shop later today to run off some stuff for work. I think I'll bring along my "ExMo" stash.

Like the Scouts say, "Be prepared!"

Maybe he wants it to be in your home so no members hear him admitting TSCC is a hoax. OTOH, maybe he is afraid your sickness is contagious and some other mos will hear through the door. Anyway, take him up on it and see if you can help lead him to join you.

O.K.

My rules for this scenario:

1.A time of my convenience

2.A mutually accepted neutral meeting place

3.A pre-set agenda, to which must be strictly adhered.

4.Only those specifically invited may attend.

Otherwise NO MEETING!

Depending on your personality type... Meeting the GA in your home and firmly (but respectfully) challenging him might give your TBM spouse an opportunity to see things in a whole new light. It did for me a few months back when I sat down and got a little aggressive the my wife's Home Teachers.

I set the tone of the conversation by pointing out that "I'm not the one sitting in your living room and teaching your wife and kids things that you find objectionable. Rather, I am very careful not to not undermine you... <blah, blah, blah>." (I live in a small town and still interact with these guys from time to time).

I proceeded by asking them if they had read the Seer Stone article in the Oct. 2015 Ensign. They both answered that they had not, so I rejoined "It sounds to me like I take your religion more seriously than you do. I cant believe that you've got the gall to try to undermine me in my own home when you can't even be bothered to stay informed about your own religion." I then proceeded to talk about how untruthful and deceptive the church has been by pointing to all of the the published artwork that show JS with the plates in front of him and contrasting with JS burying his head in a hat...


I asked them if they've read the Gospel Topic essays. Same answer as before. "Nope. What essays?" Which gave me the opportunity to reinforce my earlier point about "I take your religion more seriously than you do" and mentioned that they cover BOM translation, multiple conflicting 1st vision accounts, polyandry, etc. <condescending tone> "You guys really should read the essays but I know that you won't". "I think that you're afraid of what you'll find". "For all of your truth talk, you seem to try hard to avoid it."

You've gotta picture that one of these guys is a mouthy, arrogant, little TBM know-it-all member of the branch presidency. In my wife's branch, he's the go to guy for all of the tough "doctrine" questions. Always ready with "the" answer.

The point of all of this was that my wife (and kids) got to see how indefensible the LDS position was by me taking this guy apart and showing her that not only did he not have any answers, he didn't even know what the questions were. I get the sense that it profoundly undermined her confidence in her "firm foundation".

Taking the same approach of knocking the GA off of his high horse and putting him on the defensive, might give him the chance of a lifetime to show his family who these guys really are. For that reason, I would take the opportunity in a heartbeat...

The GA has absolutely no answers to your questions and you, he and all of us know it.

The only thing he does have will be a vague (or perhaps not so vague) threat of your family's eternal salvation and your responsibility for it. Being in your home with your wife and children close by just helps in his manipulation.

That. Is. All. They've. Got.

They seem to like the tactic of answering questions "...you should have asked."

A GA is a General Authority. By definition that would be the Q15, the Presidency of the 70, the 1st and 2nd quorums of 70 and the Presiding Bishopric.

They have all had the Second Anointing. They know it.

Likewise many others have the second anointing too: temple presidents (many of their counselors), previous stake and mission presidents, etc.

I'd hammer the GA about that ordinance until he is so damn uncomfortable that he wants to leave.

I'd tell him that he can lie all he wants and still believes he is 'good to go' to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, unless of course he commits the two unpardonable sins: deny the holy ghost, and the shedding of innocent blood.

I'd focus on TSCC inability to live by chapter 31 (on Honesty) of the Gospel Principles manual; that the church remains silent and doesn't tell the whole truth, which are (according to the lesson manual) the tools of the Devil.

I'd focus on the fact that TSCC doesn't allow the whole truth about the church history to be told or spoken of freely to other church members without the fear of disciplinary action. And I'd point out that this means you cannot be honest according to the definition set forth in chapter 31 and still get a temple recommend.

I wouldn't let any GA make me feel guilty for not being 100% honest.

I'd ask the GA when was the last time you spoke to an audience, even in General Conference, and told the truth about Joe Smith not using gold plates but sticking his head in a hat to look at a glowing stone, a stone that his brothers found in the neighbor's well when they were hired to dig it. Now Mr. GA, are you telling the whole truth? Are you being honest? If not, you are following the Devil's path as set forth in chapter 31 and it states that the lord is not pleased when we do these things to suit our advantage.

I'd tell the GA that Jesus wouldn't hide facts. He would tell the whole truth. So unless the church is going to do the same, and you sir are going to do the same, then why should I put one more ounce of time or money into an organization that preaches one thing and does another, especially when God states "Thou shall not lie, Thou shall not bear false witness," and God can't stand sin with the least degree of allowance.

Just my two cents.

By meeting in your friend's own home, it give the GA a chance to glance around and take note of ANYTHING that he might use to build some common ground and a relationship of trust. It becomes easier to manipulate the individual and the family that way.

It's a sales 101 technique, plain and simple.

Starbucks. (Tell him they have decaf)

PapaKen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Starbucks. (Tell him they have decaf)


Good one, PapaKen! I love me some kawfy, now!!

They should allow them to come to the home but make the GA sit on the floor or in a beanbag chair or something, while they sit in a lounge chair or couch with no other chairs in the room. Just to make it uncomfortable and they have the upper hand.

There isn't a GA in the mormon church that has the courage to face me. They know from the bottom of their heart and with every fiber in their body that they abused me for decades and i'm not afraid to talk about. Their worst fear is having to face anyone who has been a mormon and has been treated the way I was.

They're really a spineless bunch. I have zero respect for any of them.