This is Daniel Peterson's response to an inquiry I made on the FAIR board. Get your barf bag ready before reading.....

From: "Daniel C. Peterson" <daniel_peterson@byu.edu>
To: <xxxxxx@yahoo.com>

Dear xxxxx:

I see that others from FAIR have sought to respond to your concerns. I have nothing really to add at this point except to express my own personal willingness to try to deal with any specific questions you might want to send my way.

I’ve had considerable experience over the past decades in dealing with criticisms of the Church, and might have something to offer you.

Let me simply say that, although there is probably no significant criticism of Mormonism with which I’m unfamiliar, I have found absolutely none, not one, that, upon examination, seemed to me to justify abandoning the hope that is within believers in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. What is more, there are many powerful reasons to support belief in the gospel. I testify that it’s true, and that there are answers to your concerns. I would be more than happy to share some of the reasons for my faith with you.

Very sincerely yours,

Dan Peterson

Maybe he's right. Not one single criticism can justify the abandonment of belief and the safety of staying with the herd. But how many semi-legitimate concerns does one need to see before one realizes that the whole thing's a sham?

I've had him reply to me by email about things that have been posted here on RfM, so don't post anything you don't want him to read.

He's a paid apologist for the Mormon church, so of course everything is going to be peaches and cream in his opinion. Just saying.

Best wishes to you.

I don't give a damn if he writes me - that piece of human offal does not scare me in the least. Do you hear that Danny Boy? Men like Danny are cowards at heart when they are stood up to.

Makurosu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He's a paid apologist for the Mormon church

Exactly. If I had been a paid researcher at BYU when finding all the truthful info about the history and lack of evidence, I would have found every argument I could to remain and assuage my cognitive dissonance. If my retirement acct and monthly earnings depended on my defending cog diss, I would have been stalwart and active in pursuing arguments that benefited my personal needs.


In fact, many of us did defend it for as long as we could, unpaid even. But eventually, the list grows bigger than the dissonance.

But for a moment, imagine that DCP actually admitted to himself that it is all a lie, that he was performing wildly stretched mental gymnastics in his defense of it. What would he or could he do? He's built his reputation, career, family and social lives out of this work. He'd start from almost nothing again if he left. It won't happen.

He tried to rally his fellow mopologists after reading on RfM how a number of us were leaving reviews of the Book of Mormon and CTR rings on amazon.com.

Pathetic.

Daniel, I figure if you're happy, and I really don't care why you are happy with the Mormon church, by all means immerse yourself even deeper and have a happy, productive and fulfilling life.

However, please keep your "happiness" to yourself and don't bother me with your belief. Your truth is not necessarily my truth, realizing that it's hard for you to imagine.

ST

By what evidence do you testify Dan? You did not provide previous answers so why would I think that you could do so in the future? Dan, your testimony is not evidence of any "truths" nor is the reams of "plausible conjecture" on mormon apologetic sites.

Dan, you were next to the last nail in the coffin of my belief in the LDS church. You talked for hours and provided no evidence in your talk titled "Evidences".

No real evidence came out of your mouth nor has any of your "plausible conjecture" been verified by or ageed upon with any non-mormon credible archealogical entity nor will you ever submit it to be so, because even though you say you believe, you know better.

The last nail in the coffin of my belief was Emanuel Swedenborg and he's dead.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2010 09:18PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Quote:
not one, that, upon examination, seemed to me to justify abandoning the hope that is within believers in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

Hope within believers? Yes, that is all the LDS church offers is hope. Hope that Joseph Smith was NOT a con-man, that the BoM IS actual history, that Tokens and handshakes ARE required to pass the centennials and enter into the kingdom of God, that polygamy IS required for the highest of kingdoms and Joseph Smith wasn't just committing adultery, that I WILL become a God someday and have my OWN planet, and finally that our loved ones will be with us ONLY if we pray, pay, and obey the LDS rules and covenants. Hope DCP?, good luck with that pal, there is only one hope for me, and that is that Christ loves me as I love him, do you happen to see the difference? Christians do “PAL”-

Saying that the Mormon church fills members with "hope" is an Orwellian statement if I ever heard one. Mormons believe that the Earth will be destroyed in fiery apocalypse along with anyone who doesn't go to their church. How's that for hope, unless we're talking about some definition of "hope" that wasn't previously aware? I think he means "fear." I was constantly having people tell me that anything I liked was evil, wrong, bad and even Satanic.

I agree, Mak. LDS are driven by fear, much more than they are lifted by hope.

Amen Tango. You said exactly what I was thinking.

Ditto to Tango!

Was watching a movie that had a funeral as part of the plot.
Some Christian service was being performed at the gravesite and all of a sudden these four words stood out at me:

In the Sure and Certain Hope In Jesus Christ etc. etc.

Well that gives me a brain cramp - WTF does that mean except that the particular church was hedging it's own bets.

just because the so called "answers" are rubbish, ridiculous, magical, fraudulent based, idiotic, subject, and false - doesn't mean there not "answers." Any fool can come up with an answer as you have proven time and time again.

at BYU or in other capacities.

There are professional apologists like DCP whose livelihood depends on the church, and there are amateurs who just make a hobby of it.

after all... their livelihood depends on explaining any discrepancies away. Kind of like a pimp. What would prove to a pimp that prostitution is wrong? Petersen isn't the smartest pimp in the hood.

HH =)

A question for the apologists. What exactly does "bearing false witness" mean? If the OT god is real, you guys are in so much trouble.

What stood out for me was this trite little phrase we've heard a million times.

"I testify that it’s true..."

Of course coming from Daniel Peterson, we are hard pressed to know exactly what it is. For apologists like Peterson it appears to be no problem if The Book of Abraham isn't really a translation, if all of Joseph Smith's contradictory First Vision stories are somehow true, or some other nebulous invented for convenience version of Mormonism is true.

But that vacuous nothing version of Mormonism wasn't worth spending two years of missionary work, enduring way out of bounds interviews with bishops and stake presidents, or 10% of my income. This was sold to us whether as children or adults as the absolute truth, and that Mormonism was the only way to true happiness. That “it” is not true, and our varied life experiences after Mormonism testify to that.

If I misunderstood as thie email suggests, and all those necessary foundational elements about the only true church don't matter--then fine I have better things to do with my time, money and energy. And I imagine that is the same for many others both inside and outside the LDS church.

He's a big fish in a little sea. What would he do and where would he go if he admitted the truth, which he obviously knows very well? He lives on the South Orem hill, a totally Mo neighborhood, Just has to drive downhill to Krispy Kreme. He can be the all-knowing expert in Utah Valley. He has a good job, makes good money and has a following. I do think he's been honest with his kids and is probably happy that they're Athiest. His wife is exactly what you would expect Peterson's wife to be.

So he admits the truth--where does that leave him? He can't go to any other university and have any credibility at all. He'd be a pariah in his community, his ward, and his state for that matter. So he keeps his mouth shut and makes a game out of it--trying to come up with an apologetic response for every known fact about the fraud of mormonism. When he gets the sheep to buy it, it must give him a real rush. He gave up the chance to ever have any self-respect or integrity a long time ago. I actually do feel sorry for the guy. He's dug a hole and has to stay in it the rest of his life.

Obviously, that's why the "An Insiders View" was written AFTER the authors retiremen from the church

It was him saying on PBS that Joseph Smith used a stone in a hat to translate the Book of Mormon. I was taught all my life that that was an antimormon lie, and as far as I was concerned the second most evil anti mormon lie of all time.

It was his words that caused me to google seerstones.

It was the result of googling seerstones that for the first time in my life I had to seriously consider that the church was not true.

So, thanks Daniel C. Peterson! Until that day, I knew without a doubt that the church was absolutely true.

At the realization that someone who's apparently walking around without benefit of meds or a straightjacket is able to believe and spout such utter nonsense.

I mean, I know firsthand what copious amounts of whiskey can do to one's cognitive processes, but "Danny's God Drug" is a far more potent and fearsome concoction. And people who drink usually sober up sooner or later...

Note the subtle dysfunction, identifying everything as "criticisms of the church." Absolute developmental arrest manifested as black-and-white analysis... Reminds me of the two robots in one of Asimov's books saying to each other, "We dare not go there." By crickey, one of those robots was named Daneel...

BTW, it wouldn't take much for someone to convince me Isaac Asimov's works were prophetic... I mean, we are well on our way to becoming Solarians (he wrote of this in the 50's), evolved humans who "viewed" each other via computer terminals and television cameras and rarely had direct interpersonal contact. This eventually led them to become genetically altered hermaphrodites who reproduced asexually... I wonder what Packer's opinion of that one might be...

Hmmm, gives me an idea for some satire... "The Three Laws of Mobot Mopologetics": The First Law... "The Church is True and Sacred and a Mobot Shall Never Speak Otherwise." Of course in the SF series, robots Daneel and Giscard formulated a "Zeroeth Law." Perhaps, "In the event the Church is Discovered Not to Be True, argue forcefully that it is anyway and never concede otherwise"

Quoth M. Daniel: "Denial C. Peterson isn't bad. But what is it I'm in denial about?"

Nothing except ordinary objective reality...

Haha, yea right Dan. Instead of "holiness to the Lord" on the temple it really should say, "abandon all hope ye who enter here".

I had to get my doublespeak translator out for this line "I have found absolutely none, not one, that, upon examination, seemed to me to justify abandoning the hope that is within believers in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ"

It translates to "No matter how much evidence proves the LDS false, a true believer can always hope the church is true thus justifying their belief."

MJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "No matter how much evidence
> proves the LDS false, a true believer can always
> hope the church is true thus justifying their
> belief."

There's a silly book where some folks manage to steal the corpse of Jesus from the Vatican. They want to show the world that Jesus was never really resurrected; thus, Christianity is based on a very big lie.

They come to understand that some believers will choose to believe in certain things no matter how much evidence is presented to counter that belief. Call it faith, hope, delusion, whatever. Just don't pretend to have an intellectual discussion about it.

All his books are hard to explain but well worth the time to read.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

The new president of the society is also named 'Daniel' (maybe it's in the name?).

From Daniel's blog, there is a link to a guardian.co.uk interview of the Flat Earth Society's new president, Daniel Shenton.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2010/feb/23/flat-earth-society

The interviewer acknowledges that Flat Earth theory is " a living metaphor for backward thinking and a refusal to face scientific facts." He also says of Daniel Shenton:

"He is mainstream on most issues, but not all. For when Shenton rides his motorbike, he says it is not gravity that pins him to the road, but the rapid upward motion of a disc-shaped planet. Countries, according to him, spread across this flat world as they appear to do on a map, with Antarctica as a ring of mountains strung around the edge. And, yes, you can fall off."

There is also a pod cast link with a short printed article (which I didn't read).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/audio/2010/mar/01/science-weekly-podcast-brian-cox

Daniel Petersen's testimony means nothing in regard to what may or may not be true regarding TSCC. Theories and concepts that have been far better supported by experience and trained observation turned out not to be accurate. The real facts and history of Joseph Smith's life tell a very different story than what the TSCC teaches of his life. That fact alone casts doubt on their honestly and integrity. As Bro Boyd once said that not all facts are useful. That may be true if one is attempting to boster sagging testimonies, but it couldn't be father from the truth if one if attempting to determine what is true and real. In the latter case, EVERY fact isn't only "useful" it is essential for piecing together the Truth.

exBP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is Daniel Peterson's response to an inquiry I
> made on the FAIR board. Get your barf bag ready
> before reading.....
>
> From: "Daniel C. Peterson"
> To:
>
> Dear xxxxx:
>
> I see that others from FAIR have sought to respond
> to your concerns. I have nothing really to add at
> this point except to express my own personal
> willingness to try to deal with any specific
> questions you might want to send my way.
>
> I’ve had considerable experience over the past
> decades in dealing with criticisms of the Church,
> and might have something to offer you.
>
> Let me simply say that, although there is probably
> no significant criticism of Mormonism with which
> I’m unfamiliar, I have found absolutely none,
> not one, that, upon examination, seemed to me to
> justify abandoning the hope that is within
> believers in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
> What is more, there are many powerful reasons to
> support belief in the gospel. I testify that
> it’s true, and that there are answers to your
> concerns. I would be more than happy to share
> some of the reasons for my faith with you.
>
> Very sincerely yours,
>
> Dan Peterson

***************************************************************

I can't even begin to imagine how totally contorted and F***ed up Peterson's mind must be to accomodate all of the sh*t that is out there. I mean seriously, the mental gymnastics that this guy must do is beyond Gold Metal earning status...and then knowing what he knows still being able to declair its truthfulness????????...this is one totally f***ed up dude.

Congrates Daniel...you win the prize.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2010 01:52PM by Susan I/S.

It made me miserable and left me no hope -- that's why I left.

What's the answer to that one?

(Let me guess: "Then you weren't doing it right.")

;)

"> Let me simply say that, although there is probably
> no significant criticism of Mormonism with which
> I’m unfamiliar, I have found absolutely none,
> not one, that, upon examination, seemed to me to
> justify abandoning the hope that is within
> believers in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ."


It doesn't matter Joseph Smith lied to his followers.
It doesn't matter Joseph Smith asked for other mens wives and married them.
It doesn't matter Joseph Smith coerced 14 year olds into marriages with himself.
It doesn't matter Joseph Smith lied to his wife and threatened her with destruction in D&C 132 while he was fannying around with chicks.


Yes NON OF THIS justifys abandoning Smith's claims he was doing what God told him to do!!?!

NOTHING matters. Mormon Cult leaders can threaten and screw any women they ask for and it doesn't matter, just hand over your wives and daughters and be obedient.

And we thought Jehovahs Witnesses were Brainwashed!