So I wrote here over 2 weeks ago on how I was going to tell my husband and I have since told him. He is devastated but he doesn't want to get a divorce. He wants to work hard at our marriage but he is crushed. This is going to be the hardest thing ever. Since I was a convert of 17 years and my husband is born into the Church I really don't see him leaving. I know he is in total shock right now though.

What is really hard is our kids are 13, 11 and 9. They are starting to really wonder why I'm not at Church and why am I not going? How did you tell your kids? I have given a lot of excuses but my daughter is very smart and she said something to me that really caught my attention. She told me on Tuesday that she spends a lot of church in the bathroom... I asked why and she said mom I feel like our church isn't what it claims to be and I don't feel anything when I go to church at all. That broke my heart but wow she hit the nail on the head because I never did either.

Also, I teach relief society and I'm supposed to teach in a few weeks but I have to let the RS President know ASAP hat I won't be back or teaching ever. How do I do that and what do I say because I know the minute I do I will have phone calls, emails, visiting teachers coming over, Bishop calling etc....?

I honestly feel so weird now. I'm in a state of anger, sadness and total depression but I know I have made the right decision because I can't keep living a lie.

I'm heartbroken for my children though because I know they have to find out for themselves but it doesn't help that my husband is so "gung- ho".

I also have to say thank you so much for your help and advice on my last 2 posts. All of you have truly lightened my spirits up and gave me the clarity I needed to move things a long at the pace I have. So again thank you to everyone on this wonderful site for helping me through this rough time in my life.

srm2016:

I cannot offer useful advice. I am a gay male NeverMo with no kids. Hardly qualified.

I just wanted to let you know that Friday night traffic on this forum is very slow. Do not despair; helpful people are not ignoring you. They are just not here. Soon you will have more experience and advice than you can handle!

Best wishes.

Steve

Steve Spoonemore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I cannot offer useful advice. I am a gay male
> NeverMo with no kids. Hardly qualified.
>
> I just wanted to let you know that Friday night
> traffic on this forum is very slow. Do not
> despair; helpful people are not ignoring you.
> They are just not here. Soon you will have more
> experience and advice than you can handle!

I want to second what Steve Spoonemore said about Friday nights...they do tend to be slow.

And I am a nevermo as well...so I have no pertinent advice either!!!

Except for this...I would urge you to be honest with your kids. You don't have to tell them "too" much, but anything you DO say should be the honest truth.

For your daughter who is indicating that she is already catching on, I would support her by sharing at least some of your own feelings. She will feel a great deal better for hearing this validation from you, and your honesty will help the relationship you share with each other...especially long-term.

My best wishes go out to all of you.

If you are truthful with RS president, etc., you may be talking to someone else who needs the strength to leave, but has no one to say it to.

I know this may sound non conventional.

There was a time when husbands could go to the bishop and tell (note tell not ask) that a wife be released from a calling because he needed her at home. No other reason given.

I did this for my wife more than once but that was decades ago.

I know times have changed, but my brother just did this for both his wife and his daughter. Both wanted out of their callings but the bishop was dragging his feet.

Can't say it would work for you in your ward.

You give your resignation date to the RS president with no explanation. If pressed, you can rely on saying: it's personal. Refuse to be drawn in and put on the spot.
You can leave a voice mail also.

This is early days. Your kids are going to have questions and you know how to explain your position and respect that others can have a different position and that doesn't change our love for them.
A difference of opinion is OK. We can still be a happy family and not all be on the same page all the time.

Agreed. Tell her only what you want her to know and dont let her guilt you. It is your decision and your reasons are none of her business unless you want to tell her.

I agree with susieQ, you have told your husband, you don't need to offer any explanations to anyone else.

Tell the RS president that you won't be able to teach the lesson and won't be able to accept any upcoming assignments. If pressed tell her you just need space, that you are fine and that its personal.

You know that you will be contacted by others. Just tell them the same. Don't be drawn into explanations. You can do this firmly and respectfully.

Give husband time to get over the initial shock. He will. Then you can see where the cards have fallen. Be gentle, he'll need time. He'll realise you are the same 'you'.

Same with the kids. Children are resilient. They will probably enjoy having a non-church ally, but be cautious, you won't want husband to think you are undermining him. As susie said, a difference of opinion is ok.

I was in a similar situation. I left when my kids were your kids ages. The only difference difference was that it was as I was divorcing their TBM dad. I didn't try to broach the subject with them because they were already going through a lot. But boy did their dad double down on the indoctrination because he was frightened for their eternal salvation.

In hindsight, I wish I had been more upfront with my kids when I left. It's been an uphill battle ever since. If your daughter is already hiding out in the bathroom, be her ROCK. Invite her to come to you with her doubts. Be her safe place. It will mean a lot, even if she chooses to stay for now.

As for letting the RS president know - sometimes straightforward is the best course. Be nice. But don't beat around the bush. Clearly state your stance. Maybe she's metaphorically hiding in a bathroom too.

This situation can teach your kids an objective lesson in the damage that lies can do. If the Church had just admitted its early mistakes and moved on, there wouldn't be a mountain of accumulated lies for you to deal with and all kinds of people getting hurt just as much as your family. Even if the lies were well intentioned, which probably isn't the case but shooting fish in a barrel isn't very sporting.

Try this on for size: Love conquers all, even death. Notice how true it feels in your body. That's the birthright the Church conned out of you and uses to blackmail you. Tell your family that from now on, we will love each other the way Jesus intended. Absolutely and with no judgement and no limits.

I was about your daughter's age when I knew that I was finished with Catholicism. My family was dealing with a major crisis at the time, so whether I made it to church or not was far down the list of priorities. What prompted my exit was a burgeoning feminism. The immediate issue was that of artificial birth control. My reasoning was that birth control is the gift of a loving god to womankind. I wasn't about to let some man tell me that I could not have control of my body. My family had already modeled for me that it was okay to disagree with religious authorities. I just took that a little bit further.

All of this is to say that your very smart daughter is in the process of developing advanced reasoning. Plus, kids these days have incredible internet skills. It's possible that she may already be looking up non-faith promoting information about the church.

I agree with those above to be honest with your daughter, but I also feel that you should keep it simple at first. You might say that you changed your mind (as SusieQ puts it,) or that you disagree with the Mormon church, or that you found out some parts of the church's history that make you uncomfortable. I would also keep in mind that your daughter may also feel safe enough to open up to you about the church as you are opening up to her.

From stories shared on this board, kids react all different ways to the news that a parent is going inactive or leaving the church. It sounds like your daughter's reaction may be favorable, but being a young teen it may possibly leave her (and her siblings) feeling a little sad or vulnerable as well. So I would be sensitive to how they are feeling and give them a safe space to share their feelings.

One thing that you are going to have to address is the church's strong indoctrination that inactive family members are somehow lesser. I think what I would share with your daughter is that (virtually) all Christians, and sometimes members of other faiths as well, expect to be reunited with their families in heaven. The Mormon church does not own this concept. It does not have an exclusive franchise on virtue or happiness. People can be good, productive members of society and loving family members without being active church members.

I would strongly advocate you simply stop making excuses to your children and just tell them in age appropriate terms why you are not going, and why you are never going back.

That was what I did, and it worked very well.
I've allowed my kids to make choices, and kids respect that.
If they want to go to church, they go, if they don't, they don't.

I see three parts to this situation.

1. Husband.

OK, you took the plunge, and… it was bad. You knew it would be, and no one tried to convince you otherwise. However, all those eventualities that petrified you – the worst-case scenario (Divorce! Loss of kids! Destitution!) – did not happen. In a very real sense, that's a good thing. It's a low bar, avoiding the worst, but sometimes you have to claim that as an opening to build on it.

And now you can. Your Sundays can be relaxing and refreshing, and he'll see the positive changes in you as you leave the drudgery and oppression behind. Make the most of it. Share it with him to the extent that he's willing.

Let him adjust to the new normal. When you think he's ready, encourage him to join you, "just this once." Sleep in or cuddle or go out on a family outing, whatever you know he likes to do. "Did you enjoy our time today? Maybe we can do it again soon." It gets easier the second and third time.

2. Kids.

No more excuses. Respect them enough to be honest with them. They deserve the truth, in an age-appropriate way. They will appreciate it, and they will remember it, especially your daughter.

Of course, I'm not advocating the use of them as pawns or surrogates. But as you confide in your daughter, validate her instincts, and show that you trust her, she'll naturally be drawn to your side. She may even take the initiative, on her own, with no prompting from you, to work at persuading the others. Smart girls often do remarkable things.

3. Everyone else.

They don't matter at all! You don't owe any of them an explanation or justification for your actions. You don't need to defend yourself to them. They're only background noise.

Phone calls? They go to voicemail. Emails and texts? Leave them unanswered, and send them to spam. Personal visits? Don't open the door, or quickly say "We didn't invite you. You're not welcome. Get lost." Slam. You control who has access to you.

If, for whatever reason, you're ambushed or cornered and have to get rid of them, there are a number of useful strategies. As with most things in life, it becomes easier with practice and as you gain experience.

The broken record strategy. "No… no… no… no…" over and over, mechanically and rhythmically, until it penetrates their thick skulls. To switch it up, say nothing, but stare into their eyes while slowly shaking your head. They have no effective counter to this – you're not giving them anything to work with. Or, print out "NO" in big letters on a 3x5, and hold it in front of you as they're babbling away. The card does your talking for you.

The snark 'n' sarcasm strategy. Can be fun if you're in the mood. Best used with a patronizing, condescending GA-style tone of voice, as though you're speaking down to a little child (which, in a way, you are).
"What part of 'No' is hard for you? Is it the 'N' or the 'O'?"
"What's the word for 'no' on your planet?"
"I’ve said 'no' 22 times already. Don't you get simple English?"
"Normal people understand the word 'no.' What's your excuse?"
"How stupid are you?"

The F-bomb strategy. Self-explanatory. Works well with visual aids (middle finger/s).

If the bishop calls, answer – but then hang up on him while he's speaking. Adrenaline rush! You'll feel liberated and empowered. For the visit, he'll likely show up at night so husband can let him in. Still, you're under no obligation to talk. Stare at bishop with undisguised cold contempt, and say to him in your most biting Ice Queen voice, "You… are not… my bishop." Then to husband, "Show HIM out when you're done. I'M going to bed." Discussion over. You win.

Be patient. It's going to take time. Think of it as a cross-country road trip, and you're just pulling out of the driveway.

My husband was actually the easiest, he actually asked me to quit going to church. I realized the church wasn't true and I listened to them teach lies about the history and whitewash and say awful things. I would be the good girl and go over all the lies in the car on the way home. Thinking back on that, I wonder if I was making my husband doubt too? Hmmm.

My kids I talk to a lot, so as I would find something out I would share it and talk to them about it. They then would go to their dad to get the apologist version. But they knew exactly what I was thinking.

If this is all new information to you, then you should share, share what you've learned. Let them know what you know. Talk to them so they understand, maybe not agree, but at least understand what you are thinking.

Church members, most of them were already suspicious of me, from comments that I'd made in RS and SS and I had no worries about them contacting me. I had turned down every calling for years telling the bishop I had no desire to help out and after prop 8 I had no desire to back an institution that backed hate. The few who were less conservative I just explained what I thought and they were kind about it. There were a few who felt the same way and it started a conversation.

It sounds like you haven't had the opportunity to really share your new found knowledge and they may wonder what is going on.
You don't have to share, or you can, send the RS pres an email telling her that you are no longer willing to serve.

These people have NO power over you. You have no obligation to do anything. If you felt like it you could just not show up. It's up to you and what you feel comfortable doing.

You are free, check in with yourself and decide what YOU feel comfortable doing. Oh and be honest with your kids, mine don't agree but they don't whine about it.

I found being open and honest with my children on why the church was no longer something useful or worked in our lives was more important to me personally, and to them. They knew their mother was being honest with them in one of the most key areas of our lives - it encouraged open and honest discussion about religion in our home. It also encouraged them to question and not accept pat answers to the deep subjects of why we're here, soul, and the afterlife.

To successfully live the LDS dogma one has to ignore the elephant in the middle of the room. The false books of scripture, doctrines on polygamy, blood atonement of the early Mormon kind under Brigham's tutelage, and false prophets all the way from Joseph Smith down to present day.

The longer you wait to try and un-indoctrinate your children, the harder it may become to do. The church will alienate you from your children if you do not try to save them first.

Leaders from our local ward helped to alienate my daughter from me years after she and I had our records removed. My former bishop and his wife harbored her for six months at their home, unbeknownst to me four years ago. They shut me out when I tried to make contact with my daughter, and helped her to change her name and identity while she was with them. I was able to find her not through their assistance but with the help of a private detective and through public records. They knew exactly what they were doing!

It was their way of settling the score with me when I left in 2005 when they were meddling with my daughter at that time while she was still in high school.

You only think you're free from them even after you've left. Truth is, they're just waiting to attack you for leaving where it will hurt you the most. And that is through your children. My daughter wasn't LDS when that happened. They used her anyway.

They helped my daughter disappear without a trace. How horrible is that?! That is about as evil as it gets. They not once made any attempt to orchestrate a reunion between me or my estranged daughter the whole six months they hid her at their house. When they sold their house and retired to Utah, my daughter disappeared to the other side of the world. This was the same bishop who had the hots for my little girl when we attended their ward. Which made me sick to my stomach when I learned he was harboring her secretively from me, for six months.

Your husband is a lifer. That doesn't mean he isn't educatable. You don't have a duty to him as much IMO as you do to your children to protect them from the effects the church will have on them, possibly for life.

One more thing -- your home is your castle. Treat it as such. Start establishing boundaries against church visitors.

Years ago, advice columnist Miss Manners wrote about the function of butlers in the homes of the rich. A butler would inform a visitor that he would see if the person they were asking for was "at home." All concerned understood that "at home" was code for "is willing to visit with you," and had nothing to do with whether the resident was there or not. If the resident was not in the mood to entertain visitors, the butler would inform the visitor that the resident was not "at home." Miss Manners further stated that today, everyone has the benefit of a butler when it comes to phone calls. That butler is your answering machine or your voicemail, which will screen your calls for you.

So having said that, hire an imaginary "butler," and keep the following in mind:

Just because the phone rings, doesn't mean you have to pick it up. Let your answering machine or voice mail pick it up.

Just because someone knocks on the door, doesn't mean that you need to respond. You can keep going about your business.

Just because you choose to respond to a door knock, doesn't mean that you need to open the door. You can talk to someone through a closed and locked door. If you are a woman alone at home, you should be doing this at least initially with strangers anyway. (If you know the caller, you can say "Sorry, but my husband isn't home, and I'm not accepting church visitors. Please call and make an appointment with him if you wish to see him.")

Just because you choose to open the door, does not mean that you need to invite your visitors in. You can talk to them on the doorstep. See above.

Just because you choose to invite someone in, does not mean that you need to make the visit a long one. ("Thank you for your visit. I'll see you to the door now. I have someplace I need to be.")

Just because your husband chooses to entertain a church visitor, does not mean that you need to stick around. Make yourself busy in the kitchen, or better yet, take a good book or magazine to the family room or bedroom.

Just because a church representative wants to talk to or meet with your child, doesn't mean that you need to allow it. You are the parent, and you get to decide. Not someone else!

You've been given excellent advice from those who have gone before you.

The only thing to add is: prepare your children for comments they will hear from the TBMs. Give them the words to respond if/when they are questioned about your absence.

The TBMs may try to use your children as leverage and make them feel responsible for your eternal fate if they don't try to make you come back. Don't let them carry that burden.

They may be told that their family is somehow broken or less worthy than the children with two fully active parents. Prepare them for that.

Make sure your DH is on board with this too.

IMO, being proactive is important for two reasons. First, it protects them from potential harm. Second, it gives insight into the manipulative ways of TBMs which will help them exit TSCC when they are ready.

I think you discuss with your dh these things. Tney affect him too and if you can work how how to do it, then it will also help your marital bond.

For your daughter, figure out what you do still believe before responding to your child. You do not want her to have to process two changes. (But I think asking her what she thinks she is supposed to get from being there, and what she believes generally and what she doesn't like there will help her understand herself better.)

Some mixed faith families allow children to stay home from church with the non-believing spouse twice a month and go and participate the other times.

Here are a couple more thoughts...

Mormon women who are desperately looking for a valiant priesthood holder (their own husband is not righteous enough or they are single or whatever) can smell a man at church alone a mile away. If he really, really wants a righteous molly, they are out there in abundance. So, if he values church over spouse, beware.


My recommendation is to get him reading ASAP. Give him books asking for his perspective on them. "Honey, you are a man. I would like a man's perspective on exactly what JS's thoughts were about women. Please read Compton's In Sacred Loneliness with me and maybe we can learn more about each other's perspectives." When he reads this book, written by a Mormon in good standing, he will see how manipulative JS was using religion to get laid.


Good luck. Hoping for the best for you. Remember, sometimes in marriages, one person grows and the other doesn't. Don't blame yourself for using your brain.

"I've found out that the mormon church isn't what it pretends to be." Give a couple of examples your kids can understand.

"I still respect mormons and their right to go to the church of their choice, but I've learned that there are many good people with religious ideas they believe in as completely as mormons do. We need to respect everyone's right to choose, mormons and non-mormons."

There's some great advice here.

Emailing certain members of my ward to notify them that I was resigning from my calling or that I wouldn't be visiting teaching anymore worked well for me. It was easier than speaking face to face and it gave me an opportunity to craft exactly what I wanted to say.

I never received visits from the bishop, RS president etc. I was left alone. So maybe you'll get lucky in that way too.

Every step you take to make your way out of the church makes you stronger. You loosen the grip the church has on you every time you assert yourself and I think you'll find it becomes easier every time you push back. I'm so much stronger today than I was a few years ago. I remember being so worried that someone would notice that I wasn't wearing garments or ask me why I wasn't at church. I don't worry about that kind of stuff at all anymore and would welcome a question asking me why I left the church. I wouldn't hesitate at all to tell it like it is.

Best of luck to you as you reclaim your life.

The cavalry has arrived...and no its not Custer...great advice given....my few words would be that most bic mormons have never given one thought to their belief or why they do...most have read little to zero...your hubby is in shock and itll go one of two ways...the double down when your holding twos and a joker...or hell dig in and begin the ugly transition from cult to clear headed thinking...may be rough water ahead...the seer stone just hit him in the head..might be a few weeks or months till the canaries stop circling...go slow...have a few listening sessions with your daughter...dam shes gotta be a bright girl...we have no real power to change anyones thinking who wishes to think the same...best of luck...a little never hurts...we are pulling for ya

The one thing I would be concerned about is the conversations your hubby may have with a bishop/stake pres. I would ask him to NOT discuss your situation with them.

First of all, it's NONE of their business. Second, they may (probably will) attempt to get into the middle of your marriage. These men have zero business giving anyone marriage advice. They have NO CLUE where you're coming from. They could lead your husband down a road that's very damaging to your entire family. I don't think you'd be out of line to ask him to not discuss your marital/spiritual business with them. The one and only exception would be if you are in the room when the discussion happens. You may have no interest in doing that. Nothing wrong with that.

Your daughter is one very lucky girl to have you for a mother. It would have radically changed my life if my mother had been more like you. My mother made my life hell for decades.

Edit to add: Your daughter must really hate church if she's spending that time in the stinky bathrooms. Hmmmmm, bathroom, or class. I choose bathroom. Those classes must really stink big time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2016 02:17AM by madalice.