Well, it was 25 years ago today, that I "went through the temple" for my first time. No one in my immediate family had went through before, and the temple prep class I briefly attended was an absolute joke. I was absolutely stunned by what I experienced, but didn't dare leave when the opportunity presented itself. My oldest, who is considering a mission, will be fully informed by me what to expect if he goes through with it.

I hope for his sake, you scare the shit our of him and he ditches the mission idea.

RB

I am doing what I can. :)

Make sure he knows what he's signing up for, even though they won't tell him beforehand. Also make sure that he knows it's perfectly ok for him to leave if he's not sure he wants to give everything he has or will ever have to the mormon church. Don't forget to mention that that means not only his worldly possessions, but his marriage and his children.

Make sure he knows that it is a corporation (TCOJCOLDS is a legal corporation), not God, that he will be swearing to give all that he has, all that he is, and all that he ever will be or have in the future. When it dawned on me that the temple ceremony is all about the church and nothing about God or Jesus or me, I wanted to vomit. I hate that tscc sucks in so many innocent youth with that temple ceremony every week.

I guess you missed the whole storyline about the Protestant minister being paid by Lucifer to preach false doctrine to mankind, which was deleted in April 1990. Have you read the transcript of that portion?

Knowing some fine protestant ministers, I was shocked at that bit as well as the rest of the "Endowment" in 1981. I also have known priests, rabbis, etc, who were really teaching truth.

April? I missed the older version of things by just two months? (June '90, IIRC) I want my money back, since I got the watered down oaths!

46 years ago I went through the manti temple..

watch some farmers in hick slang put on a cult play.
had to take my clothes and was nude then wore a "poncho" opened up both sides so some hick could put oil on my body and took suicide oaths that I would give all to that F'n organization.

what a fool I was

I went through the Manti temple 35 years ago. But it still was
before the massive April 1990 changes. Don't forget pantomiming
slashing your throat, and cutting your guts out and ripping out
your heart.

Ah, them were the days!

Oh yes, I have definitely read the transcript of pre-1990 and it sickened me. I remember being in high school, and there was talk about the survey, changes coming, and temple attendance. One poor guy even had to periodically stand up in sacrament meeting and show temple attendance on a chart. You were suppose to report to him if you went. I did not think much of it at the time, but now I can see they were really desperate for people to go.

"Oh yes, I have definitely read the transcript of pre-1990 and it sickened me."

I went through in 1974, in the Salt Lake temple, which was a live performance. The guy who led the session was an older, chubby guy who looked the actor who played Norma Desmond's valet in "Sunset Boulevard."

My father was a non-Mormon, so my elderly TBM mother couldn't get her endowment until after he died in 1990. So she didn't experience the old ceremony either. After I left the church around 1998, I tried to tell her about the old ceremony with the throat-slashing, etc. She replied that I was lying, and said "All the good Latter-Day Saints we've known over the years, you know that they wouldn't be involved in anything like that."

"I remember being in high school, and there was talk about the survey, changes coming, and temple attendance."

The Tanners wrote an article about the changes in which they published a photocopy of the survey. You're the first person I ever heard of who actually knew about the survey.

By the time of the 1990 changes, I was already questioning the validity of the church. On the Sunday after the changes, an older high priest in my ward told us in priesthood meeting that he had just been to the temple, and he commented on the changes. Our bishop, who was about my age (mid-30s) and an RM like me, was in the meeting and his reaction was "THEY CHANGED THE TEMPLE CEREMONY?!?" My generation had been taught that the endowment ceremony was received by revelation, and was supposed to be unalterable, much like the baptismal and sacrament prayers. In fact, I had been told that specific thing by a GA when I went through the SL temple in 1974. That experience was one of the early items which eventually led me to leave the church.

Do you recall any more about the survey? That sounds very interesting...can you provide a link or dead-tree (book) reference of some sort to where you first saw it?

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no75.htm

...the Mormon Church made its own survey of the opinions of members concerning temple work. In the Instructions for the Survey of Adult Members in the United States and Canada, the following appears: "...we have developed this survey to help us understand your thoughts, feelings, and experiences relating to temple and genealogy activities.... along with you, approximately 3,400 other members in the United States and Canada are being asked to participate in this project.... We hope that you will feel you can be candid and open in your answers.... what you write will be anonymous. We will not be able to associate your name with the questionnaire you complete." This survey was to be returned in the mail "by MARCH 30th," 1988.

Although Question 28 asked the person who had been through the endowment ritual if he or she "felt spiritually uplifted by the experience," it also probed to find out if the "experience was unpleasant" or if the person "was confused by what happened. Q. 29 is worded, "Briefly describe how you felt after receiving your own endowment." On the photocopy we have in our possession, the respondent has written: "Wierd [sic]." Q. 37-k inquired as to whether the person found "it hard to go to the temple." Q. 39-b asked if the individual fell "asleep during sessions." Questions were also asked concerning whether the person really believed "The president of the LDS Church is a prophet of God," or if "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church on the earth." (Q. 70a-b) There was also a question with regard to whether there were any "doubts about specific LDS doctrines and teachings." (Q. 77-g) A page at the end of the Survey was left blank in case the person had "any additional things to write about your feelings or activities in temple or genealogical work..."

Although our photocopy of the page containing the "Comments" is faded out and difficult to read, it appears that the woman who filled out the Survey admitted she had lost faith in the church. This is supported by her answers to Questions 77 and 78. The "main reason for not attending LDS church services" was listed as: "I have some doubts about specific LDS doctrines and teachings." From all appearances it appears that the Mormon Church's Survey was a feeler to find out what changes should be made in the ceremony and how they would be received by members of the church.

randyj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After I left the church around
> 1998, I tried to tell her about the old ceremony
> with the throat-slashing, etc. She replied that I
> was lying, and said "All the good Latter-Day
> Saints we've known over the years, you know that
> they wouldn't be involved in anything like that."

randy, I went through the first time in 1978. My mother and step-dad were *there* with me, doing the death-gestures.

After I left the church, I asked my mom: a) how she could stomach those death gestures, and b) how she could believe when the church changed what were supposed to be "everlasting" ordinances.

She denied ever doing any death gestures. Told me I was lying, or must have remembered it wrong.
"But..." I stammered, "...you were right there doing them with me!"
"The church would never do things like that," she said.

I gave up. The church has convinced her to lie to herself. It's too late for her.

It's all online! Go to YouTube and do a search for LDS temple. The International House of Handshakes ceremony is now out on video.

If he's doing the dunk-tank routine and is taking a ditty bag he might want to pack a can of Desenex or other medicated foot spray. I came down with a touch of athlete's foot after a temple trip. Not sure I picked it up in the locker room but I wouldn't be surprised--lots of damp funky feet traipsing around in there that day.

This begs the question: Are they using forced volunteers to clean the temples as well?

Of course they are. They are usually late night assignments. I went and cleaned the temple once...it was FILTHY. Probably no more dirty than the church buildings, but all the dirt really stands out on the white carpets, etc... The temples are only really cleaned once a year when they shut down for professional cleaning.

This December will be 40 years for me. Wow. I remember it like it was yesterday. One of the bigger WTF moments of my life.

It was perhaps the closest I ever came to hearing the "still, small, voice". While doing all the handshakes, "Pay Lay Ale-ing", and slitting my throat, something was screaming "YOU ARE IN A CULT!!" in my head.

I'm a huge proponent of: FULL DISCLOSURE! Get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!!
It will be 54 years in Aug when I first went through the temple and didn't know what happened! Refused to go back for over a year but finally relented under pressure. More fiascoes.

It was also 25 years ago today that I entered the MTC (shudder). I hated that place, and still dislike even driving through Utah County.

25 Years Ago I came home from my mission. Damn I feel old.

Nice you can get the truth, even from your folks, about the church's 'mission'!

So you barely missed the throat-slitting days. Lucky you. You think you were shocked in 1991?

Imagine being there in your little clown suit watching the other clown, in unison, pantomiming their own violent demise. And what a mindfuck. Because all the time I was swearing that I would suffer my life to be taken before I would reveal the super secret passwords and handshakes, I was telling myself that I probably would squeal if torture were inflicted. Who wouldn't?

Then you're pay-lay-aling, hearing about sexual intercourse when you'd never said that out loud for fear of being zapped by God, playing touchy-feely with some old fart behind a curtain...

And you come out of there thinking, "THAT was the church I grew up in? The one that makes fun of the Catholics for THEIR rituals?