Me and a family member who is a TBM have been having an ongoing discussion for a couple years now in our texting and E-mail thread. Over this time I have thrown everything I have at her about the LDS church. What really happened at Carthage jail, Joseph Smith the fraud, how Islam and Mormonism are similar even though it is a "restored" gospel, LDS history vs real history and how they dont add up, inconsistencies with the BoM, no archeological evidence, you name it.

How do you convince a TBM Morg-Bot the church and Smith is a phony? She just keeps falling back to her feelings and testimony of "I know the church is true". You just want to shake these people.

Keep it mind these conversations we have are friendly and civilized and we keep it polite. I'm a different form of Christianity so our arguments stay on the Christian aspect. (Mormons aren't Christian but whatever ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ )

Maybe it's time to quit knocking your head against a brick wall. You are using the language of facts, and your family member is using the language of feelings -- two different languages! Of course you don't understand each other. This is where the phrase, "We will just have to agree to disagree about that" comes in handy.

you can lead a horse to water ...

You beat me to it, Dave.

I must point out that what a true believer does is believe.

Therefore once again I say "You cannot deal rationally with an irrational person".

Once I have made up my mind I defy you to change my point of view with mere truth or facts.

I agree with this.

When I was religious, I knew there were things that contradicted common sense or even science, but I let those things go. I really did believe in a bigger purpose or a bigger plan and that there were things I just wouldn't be able to explain. Pointing out those same things to me over and over, when I've already admitted that I see them but am choosing faith, wouldn't have done any good.

I needed religion, and I was willing to turn a blind eye to some things to keep it. When I no longer needed it, I was able to admit I had been wrong and actually start being honest about what was true or not.

Also, these people vote. Sleep well tonight.

If they take the initiative, and open up about doubts, perhaps they'll listen to answers.

Otherwise, they are only doing missionary work for their church. They are not interested in actually learning anything or possibly adjusting their point of view.

If TBM's insist on 'feeling' as indicators of something good or true then how is it that polygamy brings negative feelings?

Or what about the blacks being less valiant, inferior and cursed/marked doctrine for decades?

I tried the 'feelings' test as History and facts was showing it to be a complete fraud and the polygamy stuff made my feelings agonise with horror and the blacks less valiant stuff gave me equally terrible feelings confirming the religion was a fraud (despite all my older ward members believing it).

It failed on both facts and feelings for me and that's without the Temple Pantomime BS. Who in their right mind have great feelings doing all that dressed up veiled stuff chanting and hand signals etc?

TBM's seem to put aside any bad feelings on church matters, despite claiming to use them as a guide. The feelings on being love bombed are great but the feelings on discovering mormon meat aren't so good, let alone the obvious fraud and facts of hsitory stuff.

I can't. Too many triggers.

When you're a Mormon who's in deep, you tell yourself that there must be an explanation for all of this stuff and that Heavenly Father will explain it all to you some day. So even though it looks bad, you just don't let it get to you, because of course the Church is true. So something must be wrong with the information.

She is probably about as likely to change her beliefs as you are to change your own beliefs about sky daddy. I could sit here all day and tell you why your version of Christianity is bullshit? You gonna listen to me?

This whole "Mormons Aren't Christian" is a fallacy. They may be heretical, but they are just as much Christian as anyone else claiming to be Christian.

I'm not defending the cult. I'm just stating that IMHO it's a Christian cult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2016 11:27PM by Tristan.

I visit my TBC siblings every few years. The conversation and stories are the same each time. Church stuff, of course. They've figured out not to get too churchy around me and that I'm not going to return to the fold. And they know my politics are opposite of theirs, so they stay away from that. We're a non-confrontational family. That keeps things calm.

You can't connect with them. Cognitive dissonance runs very deep with these people. Anything that is remotely negative about the church goes in one ear and out the other. I used to talk about the temple stuff with a TBM back in the day, and he started to squirm when I said I've looked into an infinity mirror. The temple stuff is only secret to the Mormons. The rest of the world knows what goes on in there (thank YouTube and the Net). These people really think they have somehthing the rest of the world does not. And they're right. They have all the tools in the world to live someone else's life. But they don't see it that way. Emotions can be played in very easily and the results run very deep. The Mormons are one of the best examples of that.

No, I can't. And I don't even try.

What about this..

Why are you lieing to people? I came to the conclusion that I was lied to, and was lieing to others. I needed to stop.

Any organization that discourages research, isn't an organization that is worth my time and money.

If you have the truth, you shouldn't be afraid of people researching.

No. Nothing has made me lose my faith in other people so much as dealing with irrational TBMs, and this election season....