Some of the place names are correct, and perhaps SOME of the kings and other figures are historical ... but the geography is all out of whack, and it's unlikely that any of the events it describes actually occurred. I'm sure there must be a few kernels of truth in it somewhere though...?

Yes, it says there will be false prophets.

K

Don't forget, there was also a talking Ass. We still have plenty of those walking on Earth today.lol

Indeed! 'But he was rebuked for his iniquity, the DUMB ASS speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.' - 2 Peter 2 16

anagrammy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, it says there will be false prophets.


That's a self-fulfilling prophesy!

A history professor should know the answer to that

There are some still standing places mentioned in the Bible. People? A few were real according to history.
Most of it is borrowed myth from other older ones.If I had to pick one positive message it would be: "love one another."

I took a class some years ago in the Bible that the teacher made clear, it was not history. It had to do with the customs and teachings of the different groups of people etc.

That was really brave of him. I'm sure he dealt with plenty of backlash.

It does seem to be a rip off of ancient Sumerian legends and Dead Sea area cults, filtered through the political ambitions of various empires.

As a historical document, it's pretty sketchy. As a philosophical work, there are some useful sections about being nice. Basically a wordy version of "Be excellent to each other and party on, dudes".

I like the theories of Benny Shanon and John Allegro regarding the bible.

No, the Jews did not build the great pyramids of Egypt. There is no evidence to support the story of the Israelites being held in captivity at all (excluding more recent history of course).

Noah's ark did not happen. There was no great flood that covered the earth. The evidence does not support this at all.

It remains unclear if Jesus ever even existed. The idea of a political and religious zealot freeing Israel from the Romans was a popular one.

So...no. The bible is not true at all. None of that stuff ever happened. Just a collection of bronze-age fairy tales.

Agree. It's pretty sad that billions of people believe otherwise.

So you started this whole thread just to insult people of faith?
Really, what's it to you what others believe.

siobhan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you started this whole thread just to insult
> people of faith?
> Really, what's it to you what others believe.

In case you haven't noticed, belief in the God of Abraham can have some very tragic consequences. THAT'S what it is to me.

I'm also concerned about the effect it has on public education, such as the denial of biological evolution, cosmology and other aspects of natural science.

praydude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, the Jews did not build the great pyramids of
> Egypt.

Bible makes no claims about anyone building the great
pyramids. Any time frame for Abraham, Joseph, Moses, etc.
would have the Hebrew children there about 1000 years after the
great pyramids were built.

Exodus mentions that there were 600,000 MEN among the Israelite
children. If this were true it would have made the Hebrew
slaves the majority population in Egypt. Don't you just love
those scenes in movies like "The Ten Commandments" where a
couple of hundred slaves are toiling away and five guys with
whips are keeping them at work? Yeah, right.

Slavery existed in Egypt but it never had a slave economy like
the Bible portrays. There is absolutely no archaeological
evidence for the story of the Hebrew children being in Egypt.
What MIGHT have happened is that a colony of Hebrews may have
lived in the delta and then left--possibly against the wishes
of those in charge. Then the story gets retold into an epic.
But it couldn't have been on the scale of the story in Exodus.
Maybe 6000 men. Or maybe 600, or maybe 60. Baura's rule of
ancient literature: the easiest things to exaggerate are
numbers.

It all started with a big bang?

Yes. Heavenly Mother was quivering for millions of years.

Which heavenly mother?There are lots of them. Probably millions.

What is true is that the stories are ancient and from the Near East. That is not the case with the Book of Mormon concerning ancient America.

Some of the later parts of the OT and parts of the NT have some basis in history although it is combined with myth. The early OT is pretty much all myth. The middle part may or may not have some actual characters and events, but if there are, they are exaggerated

Most of the bible is historical fiction. Fictional characters were woven into known events from the past to make the stories seem true.

Parts of the the bible document real events from a perspective that is as biased as it is possible to be without meeting the requirements for historical fiction. Those parts are kind of true.

I think it is fair to say that the bible should not be relied on.

WTF is "historical fiction" ?

It is either history or it is fiction.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WTF is "historical fiction" ?
>


Hmmmm,maybe he means it's fiction that was written long ago in history....

As contradictory as it sounds, it's a commonly used phrase to describe fictional stories set around actual historical events. Like the movie "Saving Private Ryan".

I imagine in 2000 years, maybe less, there will be plenty of naysayers to say we never existed either. We were all just a historical fiction or fluke of someone's imagination.

I believe some of the biblical stories happened as historical events. Which ones I don't know because I wasn't there.

There are as many or more that are stories aka proverbs & parables that were part of an oral history passed down from generation to generation to instruct, educate and connect the past with the present, and to the future.

I was reading from Kabbalah teachings this past weekend, and learned that many of the biblical truths we were taught as Mormon children in Judaism and through the lens of Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism,) is a mirror to the soul. The events in Genesis, for example, of the world's beginning is a metaphor for the soul's beginning, birth, separation from God; exile as in descent away from our heavenly home... and ascent back again.

Kabbalah takes the Old Testament and compares it to the individual journey through life - using it in metaphors to describe the journey we're on. Some will search out their beginnings and origins. Others are content not to know. Our searching or lack thereof defines who we are as mortals, and where or whether we're directing our path through life and what comes after.

One of the best books I have read on this topic and a book I keep on the bookshelf is "The Bible Unearthed". It was written in the early 1990's and still highly relevant today. A summary from Wikipedia:

"The Bible Unearthed was well received by biblical scholars and archaeologists. Baruch Halpern, professor of Jewish Studies at Pennsylvania State University and leader of the archaeological digs at Megiddo for many years, praised it as "the boldest and most exhilarating synthesis of Bible and archaeology in fifty years", and biblical scholar Jonathan Kirsch, writing in the Los Angeles Times, called it "a brutally honest assessment of what archaeology can and cannot tell us about the historical accuracy of the Bible", which embraces the spirit of modern archaeology by approaching the Bible "as an artifact to be studied and evaluated rather than a work of divine inspiration that must be embraced as a matter of true belief..."

There was no exodus from Egypt for example. Finkelstein and Silberman, the book's authors, argue that instead of the Israelites conquering Canaan after the Exodus (as suggested by the book of Joshua), most of them had in fact always been there; the Israelites were simply Canaanites who developed into a distinct culture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed

I recommend this book.

Sure, maybe three of four of the characters in the Bible were genuine historical figures. As for Herod, his supposed “slaughter of the innocents” (Matthew 2:13-23) is not mentioned by any historian of the time (or even other gospel authors), and is thus likely a complete fabrication which fulfilled a common story line for saviors. The Jews were never enslaved by the Egyptians, and the Exodus story is bogus. Even the Israel Antiquities Authority finds that Exodus did not happen. Of all the people who would want the Torah events to be true, it would be the Israel Antiquities Authority.

Interesting factoid- no,there is no record of Herod slaughtering the children, but there is ample record of him being not a nice person. The Roman emperor at the time (I forget his name) said that it was safer to be one of Herod's pigs than one of his sons.

The more interesting question is why do people need or want to believe that the Bible is literally true.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2016 10:17AM by anybody.

That is the question of the hear of modern America with its culture war. My first thought is that the Bible justifies white male superiority. Please, somebody- expound on the question.

It is better to dwell in the wilderness than with an angry and contentious woman. Or a modern translation would probably say couch. :)

The Hebrew bible was extracted from ancient legends and annals dating back some 80,000 earth years.

This is a controversial statement I know but their is evidence to support it. There are many biblical stories directly relating to these legends. Yes some of the stories are based on fact but they have been perverted and changes with continual telling. So the biblical stories must be viewed with a certain amount of skepticism.

Going back to cuneiform tablets there are thousands of these legends and histories translatable only in the last 200 or so years.

Yes part of the bible are true. Parts are not.

I M H O!

All you need is a story, some of which is true and some false. Then you add a little faith to give it life. Myth + faith = riligion.

A MYTH
“A myth is an idea that while widely believed, is false. In a deeper sense, in the religious sense, a myth serves as an orienting and mobilizing story for a people. The focus is not on the stories relation to reality, but on its function. A story cannot function unless it is believed to be true in the community or the nation. It is not a matter of debate. If some people have the bad taste to question the truth of the sacred story, the keepers of the faith do not enter into debate with them. They ignore them or denounce them as blasphemers.”