That's right -- nothing is sacred. Words to remember.

The morg says the temple ritual is "sacred." By which they mean you aren't allowed to talk about how ridiculous it is, to discuss it or make fun of it -- sacred is a word used to try and shut off any and all criticism of the absurd.

The name of god is sacred -- you're not supposed to take it in vain. Jesus Christ on a stick, why the hell not? If there is an all-powerful god of the universe, is his ego so fragile that muttering his name when you hit your thumb with a hammer is going to offend him? God dammit, it's just another way to put up a wall of silence, of no discussion or criticism or humor.

Mohammed is sacred. You can't draw pictures of him or make fun of him. Even though the guy was clearly nuts, enjoyed his 9 year-old girls (shades of JS!), and turned his delusions into a military that took lands by force. Screw Mohammed, he's not sacred.

The closest thing I have to something "sacred" is my family. Yet we don't make ourselves sacred. We tease each other about our foibles and quirks, we're sarcastic and we make fun of anything and everything good-naturedly (those of you who know me here shouldn't be at all surprised). Doing so lets us be real humans to each other, and love each other all the more for our foibles and quirks. I'm not the sacred father who's always to be obeyed and respected, I'm a human being who's a bit of a geek but loves his kids more than anything -- and they know it. And I'm the father who discusses options with his kids so they can make their own damn decisions, not the sacred father who tells them what to do and expects them to obey without question. I'd hate it if they considered me sacred.

Nothing is sacred. Question everything. Make fun of things that are important to you, so you can see all their sides and not just accept them unquestioningly. Love realistically, including faults and quirks in humans that are downright funny and weird and deserve to be the subject of humor.

Oh, there is one exception: tacos. They're sacred. :)

Absolutely true!

JS wasn't afraid to wax poetic about his "sacred" experiences (first vision). He was all about vocalizing the crazy so I find t amusing that contemporary Mormons say every spiritual experience is too sacred to talk a about. We need more of the crazy in this dispensation!

Infidel!

Burritos are sacred, not tacos.

fossilman noted, "Burritos are sacred, not tacos."

Finally, somebody gets it.

If I'm offered a choice between, for example, a little card giving me permission to prance around inside a Mormon temple wearing a drive-up-window worker's hat and green apron, vs. scarfing a bulging steaming carnitas burrito--well friends, it ain't even close.

Imagine the look on the Virgin Mary's face as she cradles the baby Jesus in her arms. That is the look on my face as I cradle a carnitas burrito.

As the Mormon hymn reminds us:

"Come, eat me!" the Burrito said
Then let us drool upon Its head.
For thus we raise the sacred fork
Partake upon the blessed pork...

According to Deadpool comics, its tacos and chimichangas. A close second is Bea Arthur as the sexiest actress in the world.

Choirs of angels accompany the Pepe's Breakfast Burrito.

Well, to us Christians, our Creator is sacred.

If you like living on this planet created by him, if you like food, bacon, sex, sports, dna, beer, neurotransmitters, endorphins, falling in love, the opportunity to go to heaven.... Then everything was created by him and if we truly realized this our hearts would be filled with overflowing gratitude.

For eternity, we will be overwhelmed with gratitude for what he has done for us. We could be the richest, most famous person on the earth, but that would still pale in comparison to one day in heaven. The spiritual euphoric Heavenly realm is worth any negative thing we go through on earth.

So IMO, there is sacred.

In the name of cheese and rice, amen.

I'm overwhelmed with gratitude for what my real, actual father did for me.
But I still never considered him "sacred." And he wouldn't have wanted me to. Because if I had, I would have been setting up a false image of him, some fantasy "dad" that didn't exist in real life.

I can't imagine that if there is an "almighty god," he'd want it to be any different. Declaring things "sacred," as in walled off from any criticism or making fun of, is a human thing. And a rather silly one. If there is a "god" (which I see no evidence of), why would he want you to consider him "sacred?" To feed his ego? Wouldn't he laugh off any criticism, and maybe find humor actually humorous? Hmm?

Sacred is subjective and optional. People can literally live their whole lives without believing something or someone is sacred and do just fine -- be happy, prosperous, love and feel loved, and not feel like they are missing anything.

Feel free to treating something as sacred if you want to. It's optional and you can choose that option. Where the situation gets sticky is when you insist that things are objectively sacred; that they are sacred for everyone or should be. You can't really force that on anyone else, mainly because it is by nature an optional belief, not a mandatory part of existence, like eating or sleeping.

According to Monty Python, every sperm is sacred. lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

Where did you (6 iron) get the information about eternity and the living conditions therein?

If, in fact, 'eternity' is as you think it is, why are we living together on this planet with so much strife? What's the point?

I'd get my ticket punched ASAP for the promised land, if what you say is true. Why hang out here? Why are people not praying to die or be stricken down right here, right now?

You're premise doesn't add up...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2016 11:29AM by csuprovograd.

Many of us have insufficient evidence to find the ghawd version compelling.

But some of us recognize that there will always be juries who find reasons to convict when others would have reasonable doubt.

"Party on, Garth."

"Party on Wayne."

Schwinggggggg!!!

My premise does add up.

We learn by experiencing, not by sitting in a classroom. We would all be arrogant selfish people if everything was handed to us. We need difficulties to learn empathy and a host of other things. We get refined.

Here is Christianity in a Scripture... Whoever exalts himself will be abased, whoever humbles himself will be exalted. That's from somewhere in the NT. We need an earth experience to learn that the path to heaven is through humility, not self exalting.

Heaven is a place of love, not ego. Of selflessness not selfishness. We have to prove to ourselves that we understand that by coming to an earth.

I've tasted what it might feel like in heaven, and it is beyond human comprehension. It is a spiritual burning of euphoric love where your heart will overflow with love for your creator and others for eternity

Magical math, I guess.

How can you 'taste what it feels like' if it is beyond human comprehension?

Because the joy comes from a Heavenly source and is hard to verbally explain

6 iron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because the joy comes from a Heavenly source and
> is hard to verbally explain

Sounds like it merits questioning :)

I wonder why your god likes you better than he likes me, since he has never gifted me with any such taste of eternal bliss. It seems he plays favorites. Ah well, If he's that much of a jerk, you can have him to yourself.

I remember generating that feeling on command, like a Pavlovian dog. It felt goooooooooooood, especially when I summoned it while thinking about chocolate or sex.

I think that leaving this lifetime early is like leaving work or school early. You can do it, but you won't have accomplished what you set out to do.

I think the Earth is sacred. It's our home, and it has great beauty. I think that the Japanese Shinto religion has the right idea by often putting Torii gates out in nature. The gate marks the transition from the worldly to the sublime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torii

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the Earth is sacred. It's our home, and it
> has great beauty. I think that the Japanese Shinto
> religion has the right idea by often putting Torii
> gates out in nature. The gate marks the transition
> from the worldly to the sublime.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torii


they remind me of neolithic dolmens

summer, does that mean we can't criticize the earth's problems? Deal with them honestly and openly? Make fun of parts of it?

If so...pass. I love the earth, it's my home.
Sacred it ain't :)

I think the Earth is alive. All of it. I see it as a living, conscious entity. We are her children. All of us, all of creation. We are hers, and we are loved. "We are the eyes of the world." We think we are in charge, but IMO Mother Nature will have the last say. The planet is life, we are life. We are one.

When I pray, I pray to Heavenly Father and Earth Mother. If mama's not happy, ain't nobody happy.

So yeah, sacred. ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2016 06:46PM by summer.

Fish tacos too?

Thanks for that, Dave. Perfect :)

Okay, Hie, hold on to your jockstrap, there are things that are sacred. Perhaps, it's just the word (with all its religious connotations) that you're ranting against. So, wanker, let's substitute the words "of high esteem."

You, Hie, are of high esteem. You have amazing intellect, humor, and humanity. I'm honored to be a friend, and frankly, your town is be I'm considering moving to.

Your family are of high esteem. Our friends on this board, our neighbors, and even our Mormon enemies are of high esteem. We are all part of the human family. See your paragraph 5.

As Summer pointed out, the Earth and all her flora and fauna (excepting mosquitos) are of high esteem.

(Hold that jockstrap even tighter). To persons of faith, God, Mohammed, Jesus, Buddha, and others are of high esteem. If we hold them in high esteem, we don't make fun of them. You can, I cannot.

Paragraph 6, some good advice here! I have done most of these and still do. I was a non-believer for at least a third of my life. I am a Christian by longing (yes, I know, in your eyes, that's stupid!) I still want you as a friend! You're honest. And in my own life's experiences, I've come to value honesty above all.

I love your posts! But, look into your wife's, daughter's, and son's eyes and then try to tell me they're not sacred.

That Crazy Hie Has Got a Boner!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2016 01:22PM by BYU Boner.

BYU Boner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...look into your wife's,
> daughter's, and son's eyes and then try to tell me
> they're not sacred.

I can and do -- they're not. Making them so would put them up on a false pedestal, it would turn them from the wonderful, loving, flawed, odd human beings they are that I love so much to a cartoon version of themselves.

I love and cherish them because of all that they are. Not because they're perfect -- they're not. Not because they're sacred -- because they take criticism (and give it), because they take humor at their own expense (and give it).

I indeed have the highest esteem for you, too, my friend...but you're not sacred either. Not even your boner is.

sacred: holy, hallowed, blessed, consecrated, sanctified, venerated, revered...

No, thanks. I'll take real, human, flawed, odd, fun any day. :)

I agree. I won't put people I love on a pedestal because I'm putting them above other people or treating them like they are to be revered / honored no matter what they do. That's bad for them and me. They're human. I'm human. That's it.

The definition of sacred is 1) "connected with God (or the gods) or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration" and 2) "religious rather than secular." It originated as a word associated with having reverence for a god and/or a religion.

High esteem is different. For clarity in the course of this conversation, I think it's important to note the differences. Otherwise we're talking across each other because we have different definitions, which leaves room for misunderstanding.

Excellent point, it's not that you don't highly esteem them, you do not want to set them up to inhuman expectations. And why is that? Obviously, because we were set up with inhuman expectations and beat up when we revealed our humanity.

No, my boner isn't sacred, it's all too human, it has its SHORT cummings.

So, as to not put you on a pedestal (with all its inhuman requirements) I'll just say that I fucking highly esteem my fucking friend, Hie to Kolob!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2016 02:04PM by BYU Boner.

BTW, no -- I don't think being a christian is "stupid."
Irrational, sure. But not "stupid."
Whatever brings you comfort is fine with me, as long as you don't expect me to share the belief or you force it on others.
And you don't do either :)

When I join a very TBM family at dinnertime, and the prayer is offered by one of the parents in the 'Mormon syrupysweet oh-so reverently quiet voice, I want so much to start laughing loudly and say, "Do you really think your god can even hear you as he must be pretty old and hard of hearing by now. Plus, I bet he would love it if you threw in a joke or two to lighten his burden of all the damn (and yes, I want to swear to emphasize how silly I think all the pleadings are) requests made to him. Whatduoyouallthunk? I want so much to start a MEANINGFUL discussion right then and there. At this house we never have meaningful discussions, but a lot of sacred moments when they are authorized, usually by the priesthood holder.

When this family's children were smaller and less obedient, Gawd prayertime was a lot more fun and less 'sacred.' Even their stalwart parents could be known to break into a laugh at what was said or not said (usually the food never got blessed by these sweet souls). "Please bless me to be good, thank you for my new coloring book, bless grandma as she is old and her knees are broken (this one I especially loved) and I really, really want to go swimming. Thanks, Gawd. Amen."

Yes, I so agree with Hie that it is important, and maybe about as close as possible to arriving at finding the sacred "to question everything." I agree that in doing so it allows you to really, really "see all sides and not just accept them unquestioningly."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2016 04:34PM by presleynfactsrock.

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Plus, I bet he would love it if you threw in a
> joke or two...

Very much my point, thanks for getting it.
Declaring something "sacred" puts it off-limits for any kind of meaningful discussion.
And if there were a god, I can't imagine why he'd want himself off-limits for any kind of meaningful discussion.
Or jokes. :)

A good chile relleno is sublime, if not flat out sacred.

Some things are too sacred to talk about, like Scarlett Johansson's mirror scene in 'Under The Skin'.

I give reserved kudos to several native american tribes who have declared certain hilltops "sacred", thereby keeping a few knuckleheads from building obnoxious mansions that would ruin the view for thousands; I know it's private property, but seriously--"Look at me, look at me, I'm rich, I have a castle!!"

There is nothing more sacred than the profane.

BOOM!! Love what you wrote, ificouldhietokolob.