The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints places great emphasis on the need for honesty and truth.

One of its Articles of Faith (canonized statements of its basic beliefs) states:
'We believe in being honest, true...'

To achieve the top status of membership (the holding of a valid pass to enter the Temples) you have to pass a series of worthiness tests, questioned by your local Church leader. One of these questions asks:
'Are you honest in your dealings with your fellow men?

So, honesty and truth seem to be important in the faith. But does the organization practice what it preaches?

Example Number 1.
There can be no doubt that the method for producing the Book of Mormon involved Joseph Smith putting a rock (seer stone if you prefer) in his hat. You could make an argument for the method of using the Urim & Thummim (Rock/crystal based spectacles) initially but only for the pages that were 'lost'.
The Church provides its volunteer teachers with support materials including pictures, that are to be shown during the appropriate lesson. The picture for the translation of the Book of Mormon shows Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdrey sat at a table with the golden plates clearly on display in front of them. Joseph is studying them and Oliver is writing.
(Picture available on the LDS website under media support materials)

No rock, no hat, no Urim and Thummim and Oliver can clearly see the plates.

So, is this picture dishonest?

Example Number 2.
The Doctrine and Covenants is canonized LDS scripture which contains 'revelations given to Joseph Smith, The Prophet.
Section 137 was 'given' to Joseph on January 21st 1836 and was recorded in his journal - it is from this journal that section 137 was copied (well almost copied, see below).
Verse 5 of section 137 reads:
'I saw Father Adam and Abraham; and my father and my mother...'
(available to view online at the LDS website under scriptures)
However, the actual journal entry from which this is copied reads:
'I saw Father Adam and Abraham and Michael and my father and my mother...'
(available from the LDS website 'The Joseph Smith Papers' under Journals)
No official (apologists have had a go at speculating and theorising) explanation for the omission of the fact that Joseph saw Michael as well as Adam and Abraham is given.
This is important because Mormons believe (and are instructed in the Temple) that in fact Michael IS Adam.
So either Michael isn't Adam after all, or perhaps Joseph was mistaken in who he saw (both situations would be very embarrassing on the Church's credibility).

So is section 137 of the Doctrine & Covenants dishonest?


Does the Mormon Church 'believe in being honest, true...'?

Apostle Parley P. Pratt definitely stated that no changes were made in the revelations. His statement is recorded in a footnote on page 173 of Vol. 1 of the History of the Church:
Elder Parley P. Pratt,... takes occasion to relate how this and other revelations were given through the Prophet. "Each sentence," says he, "was uttered slowly and very distinctly, and with a pause between each, sufficiently long for it to be recorded by an ordinary writer in long hand. This was the manner in which all his written revelations were dictated and written. There was never any hesitation, reviewing, or reading back, in order to keep the run of the subject; neither did any of these communications undergo revisions, interlinings or corrections. As he dictated them so they stood, so far as I have witnessed;..."

Apostle John A. Widtsoe stated:

Within a few years after its organization, the Church had received practically all necessary supplementary laws and regulations. These also have remained unchanged. There has been no tampering with God's word.... the whole body of Church laws forms a harmonious unit, which does not anywhere contradict itself nor has it been found necessary to alter any part of it. (Joseph Smith—Seeker After Truth, pages 119 and 122)

Joseph Fielding Smith made this comment concerning Joseph Smith's revelations:

Inspiration is discovered in the fact that each part, as it was revealed, dovetailed perfectly with what had come before. There was no need for eliminating, changing, or adjusting any part to make it fit; but each new revelation on doctrine and priesthood fitted in its place perfectly to complete the whole structure, as it had been prepared by the Master Builder. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol, 1, page 170)

The Mormon Apostle LeGrand Richards was asked if changes were made in the revelations; in his reply, dated May 12, 1966, he stated:

Now answering your questions. Your first question: "Have the early revelations of the church been revised and have some additional clauses been inserted as some people claim?" Answer: I am past eighty years of age. I have filled four missions, been bishop of three wards, president of a stake, for fourteen years the Presiding Bishop of the Church, and now for fourteen years a member of the Quorum of the Twelve, and I know of no changes that have been made during that time. I have just discussed this matter with President Joseph Fielding Smith, the Church Historian, and he indicates that in the Book of Mormon, there have been a few grammatical changes; no changes have been made that in any way change the meaning of any sentence; an "are" might be changed to a "were" to make it more grammatically correct....

There may have been a few words changed in the Doctrine & Covenants and President Smith thought there had been one section left out which was instruction rather than revelation....

HOWEVER-

Mervin J. Petersen, who wrote his thesis for the BYU, found that 703 words have been changed, 1,656 words added and 453 words deleted since the revelations were first printed in the Book of Commandments. ("A Study of the Nature of and the Significance of the Changes in the Revelations...," typed copy, p.118)

MEANWHILE-
http://mrm.org/michael-j-barrett

At first, I attempted to persuade church leaders that honesty was our best option. I was told that the decision already had been made by leaders such as Boyd K. Packer and Elder Dallin Oaks: Some facts, some doctrines, are embarrassing and must be concealed.

Only faith-inspiring facts and doctrines may be discussed. Anything that is not immediately faith-promoting is considered to be "advanced history" (Packer's term) and must be concealed with all of the zeal of a corporate lawyer hiding documents that could incriminate his company.

----
On one occasion, he called me in and he, together with Elder F. Burton Howard of the First Quorum of the Seventy, directed me to stop disclosing our doctrines and history publicly even though these teachings were taken from church publications, church records and public documents.

Howard, a lawyer, told me the public had no business knowing what President Joseph F. Smith said in his sworn testimony to Congress about polygamy in 1904. He said that any member of the church who would reveal that Smith's testimony was false was unworthy of a temple "recommend."

Very interesting post. I knew they were dishonest about everything under the sun, but had not heard about most of the examples you give here. The dishonesty just goes on and on. Unreal!

Hell, yes, TSCC is dishonest to the hilt!

I think this post goes right alongside a comment made on another thread

"ask an [Temple] officiator why they need to have locks on the lockers in the changing room"

At the very least, they commit an awful lot of sins of omission. The missionaries do this every time they try to push someone into baptism as quickly as possible, while those investigators have been given only the most minimal amount of information on what the Church actually teaches.

Even after being a member for 30 years, there were so many shocking things I never knew about, such as the fact that there were several versions of the First Vision. Did we ever discuss why that might be in Sunday School? Nope.

Greyfort, I couldn't imagine or even try to. It took me a minute to get over my experience and that was "nothing" Still in all, I had dreams a couple of times, felt anxious, etc. It was so wild. I was even euphoric for a small time and thank goodness that took an exit.

_______________________________________________________________

"...It is not unusual to have a missionary say, “How can I bear testimony until I get one? How can I testify that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, and that the gospel is true? If I do not have such a testimony, would it not be dishonest?”
Oh, if I could teach you this one principle. A testimony is to be found in the bearing of it!...”

-- B.K.P
______________________________________________________________

In other words: Lie until it no longer feels like you are lying.
Packer seems to feel that because he personally "knows" the church is true, there is no problem. These missionaries are stating a fact that they will eventually know is a fact. It's just a tecnicality that they don't happen to know it yet.

This leads to the common saying: "Fake it 'til you make it."

In reality it's just Bearing False Witness which Packer's own Bible forbids!

A ANON Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> __________________________________________________
> _____________
>
> "...It is not unusual to have a missionary say,
> “How can I bear testimony until I get one? How
> can I testify that God lives, that Jesus is the
> Christ, and that the gospel is true? If I do not
> have such a testimony, would it not be
> dishonest?”
> Oh, if I could teach you this one principle. A
> testimony is to be found in the bearing of
> it!...”
>
> -- B.K.P
> __________________________________________________
> ____________
>
> In other words: Lie until it no longer feels like
> you are lying.
> Packer seems to feel that because he personally
> "knows" the church is true, there is no problem.
> These missionaries are stating a fact that they
> will eventually know is a fact. It's just a
> tecnicality that they don't happen to know it
> yet.
>
> This leads to the common saying: "Fake it 'til you
> make it."
>
> In reality it's just Bearing False Witness which
> Packer's own Bible forbids!


It's such a self-esteem breaker too. You bear your testimony, feeling like a phoney because you don't actually believe it. You sit there listening to everyone else's testimony and wonder what's wrong with you that you can't know what they know too, not realizing that many of them are faking it as well.

It IS definitely bearing false witness, and at the same time it is a form of self indoctrination.

The biggest example of lying is the fact that the Church has known since 1967 that the Book of Abraham is a fraud and a forgery. Yet, it continues to present it as a translation of an ancient record.

From the current Gospel Principles manual:


"Lying is intentionally deceiving others. Bearing false witness is one form of lying. The Lord gave this commandment to the children of Israel: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour” (Exodus 20:16). Jesus also taught this when He was on earth (see Matthew 19:18). THERE ARE MANY OTHER FORMS OF LYING. WHEN WE SPEAK UNTRUTHS, WE ARE GUILTY OF LYING. WE CAN ALSO INTENTIONALLY DECEIVE OTHERS BY A GESTURE OR A LOOK, BY SILENCE, OR BY TELLING ONLY PART OF THE TRUTH. WHENEVER WE LEAD PEOPLE IN ANY WAY TO BELIEVE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TRUE, WE ARE NOT BEING HONEST." (emphasis mine)


So, ya, I'd say the Church is dishonest.

Honest in their dealings with their fellow man??? Well, let's start with the mishies. Be honest now. How many were taught NOT to give certain information to investigators???? And how many of the mishies asked honest questions in their training and were shut down-taught NOT to say anything about that???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2011 10:23AM by honestone.

"asked honest questions in their training and were shut down"

This was my brothers biggest issue with the MTC, he wasn't allowed to ask questions. They treated him like he was horrible for just wanting answers. Thank goodness he came home right after the MTC!

Does a frog bounce its ass when it hops?

When mormons indulge in milk before meat they assume their lies are for the good of those they deceive. It's like adults who spell out m-d-i-c-i-n-e or c-a-n-d-y in front of a two year old because they want to keep the upper hand and not upset or overstimulate the child.

So instead of admitting that they believe God was once a man, they say they're not sure we teach that. Rather than telling converts about eternal polygamy, they say that some things become clear in the afterlife.

Mormons lie but think it's okay since they like to believe they're doing it for the sake of their victims and to build God's kingdom. But they're so accustomed to lying that it runs over into their non-church dealings as well.

I say unto you, yea.

Does the pope $h!t in the woods?
Susan

They don't out and out lie to potential converts but they do not inform you of lots of the big rituals in which lds does practice. Conveniently those rituals are left out.

The Church is a business and in order to keep the funds coming and support the elite, it's imperative to keep the lies coming. Period.

Where's the "like" button?

I was not informed about several BIG items i.e. Temple rituals, tribes, blessing you receive from some big, authoritive man, etc. I found out all of these by reading posts and then inquiring. The "love-bombing" @ the church was "thick". oh well.

...denominations, as well as the Catholic Church. I have read at least one advocacy & at least 1 critique of the same denomination. My conclusion is that I don't think there is any church, including Roman Catholic, that so consistently misleads, falsifies, distorts, omits, lies, and engages in cover-ups that the LDS Church. And unfortunately, this demonstrable lying is traceable to the very first days of the Church, when Joseph Smith and the apostles were issuing public denials that polygamy was being practiced in the church, when the historical record clearly shows that it was.
The lying continued through the Mountain Meadows Massacre in 1857, and has been continued lying and cover-up on that subject right up to the present day.
This lying continued through the Mark Hoffman case, which typified how the LDS Church has an on-going policy of buying up early Mormon documents and manuscripts which reflect unfavorably upon early Mormonism. The Church then seals these historical records in closed, locked archive files which prevent legitimate historians from getting at them. If the LDS Church has nothing to hide, why does it do this?

I definitely feel like parts are dishonest. They won't tell you the full story, and they encourage you to research yourself and find out about the church but at the same time tell you to not look outside of Mormon websites.