ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
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> caffiend Wrote:
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> -----
>Hie, I tried carefully to disagree with you in a civil & respectful tone. "What a crock," "silly," "irrational," and such dismissive statements alienate people and detract from the discussion. Joking aside, your occasional "sigh..." seems to say--to me at least-- "Oh, give me patience with this ignorant, inferior being."
>
> What a crock. Pointing out the nasty things
> christians have done (and still do) isn't singling
> them out for anything. It's just being factual.
> Pointing out the nasty things Muslims do isn't
> singling them out either -- and they aren't given
> any special treatment.
Often, after Islamist* shootings, I hear MSM reports (e.g. Orlando) state "his motivation has not been established" even when he's called out "Alahu Akbar!" Timothy McVeigh is still regarded as a "Christian terrorist" even when he stated, before and after the Oklahoma bombing, that he was an agnostic.
> This persecution mentality is rather silly. "Oh,
> us poor christians, we never do anything wrong
> (false) but we get blamed, and all the Muslims are
> horrible (false) but nobody ever complains."
> Like I said, a crock.
>
>
> > Islamists are
> > creating more havoc in Europe than you realize,
> > and it's coming from newly arrived immigrants
> and
> > refugees, long-residing immigrants, and 2nd and
> > 3rd generation children.
>
> Protestant Americans said the same thing about
> *Catholic* immigrants when lots of them started
> coming to America. It's an irrational and bigoted
> fear of "the other people" that drives it, not
> legitimate concerns.
>
> Yes, there are nasty people among the Muslim
> immigrants coming in. There are nasty people
> EVERYWHERE. Deal with the individual nasty people
> rather than project irrational fears out
The violence during the US immigrations was not as frequent or ferocious as what we are seeing. US media tends to report it only when it involves Americans or is especially horrific, and much is deliberately under-reported. E.G: the New Years Eve rapes in Germany were first ignored, then minimized by removing the word "rape" from many police reports.
>
>
> So? Thousands of catholic churches have been
> financed by the Vatican. And staffed with
> catholic priests. I'm not even sure what you
> claim is a fact IS a fact (you've offered no
> evidence), but even if it is, so what? That in
> and of itself doesn't make it "evil."
Whabbi Islam is aggressive and violence. Hie, you're muddying very important differences with moral equivalency. Also, in the US at least, most Catholic churches are constructed in partnership between the congregation and the local diocese.
>
>
> > And the US political
> > establishment -- both parties -- do not dare
> call
> > them out on this. Worse, political correctness
> > means that not even the media will look into
> this,
> > even after jihadists like the Tsarnaev brothers
> > (the Boston Bombers) are radicalized and act
> out.
>
> Another crock. Because reasonable people don't
> generalize that all Muslims are evil like you
> irrationally do, you're claiming it's some big
> conspiracy and "political correctness" -- when
> it's just reasonable people being reasonable and
> not alarmist irrational asshats.
Again, Hie, I'm trying to get my point across responsibly, using an example I am very familiar with. "Because reasonable people..." suggests I'm not reasonable, and must you call people you disagree with "irrational asshats"? More to the point, I did NOT generalize that "all Muslims are evil." My point is that a very large proportion of this very large religion support, or at least tolerate, anti-Western violence.
>
>
> > According to one rather small survey, 51% of US
> > Moslems believe they should have the right to Sharia law.
>
>
> They can believe what they want -- they can't,
> however, do that. And anyway, how is that
> different from US christians saying (and they
> regularly do) that they're subject to their "god's
> law," which is a higher law than US law? And then
> they try to make their "god's law" nonsense into
> secular law anyway...
>
> > That really scares me.
> And so we come to the root of your irrationality:
> fear.
> No surprise there.
Of course Moslems can believe what they want. But that so many believe this way is frightening: It means a very large pool of potential jihadists, supporters and sympathizers in our population. We're also seeing that these people--educated, career-accomplished men who seem to have embraced Western middle-class culture--have not thoroughly assimilated. Even in this thread, people report ordinary Muslim-Americans sympathetic to and practicing some aspects of Sharia (notably, but not exclusively, female genital mutilation, honor killings) In Europe, [e.g. Parisian suburbs and British "councils" (i.e. public housing)], local authorities have simply given up trying to enforce secular law in Muslim districts, and have let the local Muslims (native and immigrant both) take over.
I'm worried that may happen here, and I don't think that's irrational.
Lastly, Hie, I strongly disagree with but acknowledge your intense dislike for all things religious. I think it's very unfortunate because it comes across as elitist and alienating. "Moral equivalency" is also a logical flaw which weakens your argument, because people know that Christendom has mostly "evolved" from the horrors you rightfully decry, where as Islam is very much in the throes of it, and there's more of it--a lot more, all over the world--than shows up in the US mainstream media.
This website consolidates information on jihadist and other types of Islamist violence. Note, the column on the right ("News") only links to established news sites--it is not their own. This is worldwide terror on a scale we have never seen before.
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/I guess it comes down to this, Hie: If you here gunshots, chances are you'll hear "Alahu akbar!" instead of "Praise Jesus!" And yes, that scares me.
* I draw a distinction between the words "Islamic" and "Islamist."