What do you do?

I believe that Mormons are false, but also Darwin is wrong too.

The JS story is wrong (at first the BoM was supposed to be a work of fiction... he tried to copyright and sell it)... and Darwinism doesn't account for behavior (animals are born and pretty much act the same way on instinct, except for humans).

I know some of you are completely atheist now and are completely jaded by it all... and others are still looking.

Am I alone here?

You go get education, and stop relying on "belief."

See, here's the thing about both mormonism and evolution (I won't say "Darwinism," because literally millions of bits of evidence have been added to the theory of evolution since Darwin): you can go find verifiable, confirmable, testable evidence for both.

In the case of mormonism, the evidence clearly shows the church's truth claims false.

In the case of evolution, the evidence clearly shows it to be a fact of earth biological systems.

Atheism has nothing to do with it. Evidence shows the mormon church false and evolution to be a fact no matter what religious beliefs you do or don't have.

Stop relying on "belief." Try facts and evidence.

More and more we are hearing the question, "Do you believe in...." as if nothing can be actually settled.

I mean, "Do you believe in (aliens, the Illuminati, Whitewater, we visited the moon, 9/11 ....)

When we depend on belief rather than facts, as if the number of believers outweigh the facts, we leave the belief that there is a reality to be respected.

The (terrible) truth is that some people don't care about what is true or not. Mormon missionaries peddle the importance of TRUTH, but after you have become a member, then some truths are not helpful.

ALL TRUTHS ARE HELPFUL because reality is your best friend in making a good adjustment in life.



Kathleen

wait... We visited the moon on 9/11?

No that's when reality crash landed.

^^^^^^This and well stated.

Darwin wasn't 100% right or wrong, neither was Einstein.

But other scientists were able to build on their observations and make corrections and adjustments and new discoveries of knowledge.

With JS, he's kinda stuck, because he was supposed to have the eternal and *unchanging* truth, direct from God.

Oh, and God is obviously a capitalist so the copyright is OK; I mean, we can't share the message of eternal light and salvation for FREE now, can we? Maybe...10%...but not free.

I came across an account of Martin Harris, and his agreement with JS that he, Martin, would take half of the first printing of the BofM, so that he could sell them, in order to recoup the money he had to pay the printer, so they could take possession of them.

In the account, Martin and JS ran into each other while Martin was out trying to sell copies, and when JS asked Martin how sales were doing, Martin said he could sell any!

Has anyone ever heard of people BUYING a book of mormon, other than missionaries and wards, et al., to give away?

>
> ...animals are born and pretty much act the
> same way on instinct, except for humans ...
>

Isn't it fair to say that "animals" act the way that has given them the success necessary to thrive and reproduce? And yes, humans will ignore data and cliff dive into the shallow end of the Darwin gene pool.

I am not a scientist, so could you explain to me what your statement that I quoted has to do with dismissing 'evolution', making Darwin 'wrong'?

"...animals are born and pretty much act the
same way on instinct, except for humans..."

I had to explain many times to my teenagers that I understand their inexplicably stupid behavior because they are simply acting as young mammals.

Hormones, displays plumage and feats of dominance.

Well, it's not mormonism or evolution. You don't have to "pick" one or the other.

Also, evolution and the science behind it is accurate as shown by all available evidence, it does not require your belief to be "true" or not. It simply is.

Atheism has nothing, if little to do with it. Evolution does show that no "god" or creator is required for the diversity of life that we see on the planet. There are evolutionary biologists who do believe in a creator. There is no law saying that they can't. It's odd, sure, but they are certainly allowed to believe what they want.

As for the statement "Darwinism doesn't account for behavior (animals are born and pretty much act the same way on instinct, except for humans)" There's so much in there that's inaccurate that I'm not sure where to start. Evolution certainly does account for behavior and instinct, even in humans. So, I'll suggest that you look up "evolution and animal behavioral traits and instincts" to learn for yourself, preferably from a reputable, science based website, or even Wikipedia should have good info. Looking it up for yourself should, hopefully, help you learn more about it rather than making assumptions.

I'll echo what ificouldhietokolob states above, "Stop relying on "belief." Try facts and evidence."

Finally Free! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Evolution certainly
> does account for behavior and instinct, even in
> humans.

Thus, The Darwin Award!

You are in a league with such illustrious persons as Kent Hovind and Ray Comfort.

BYU Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are in a league with such illustrious persons
> as Kent Hovind and Ray Comfort.

It is amazing that both of those clowns still have an audience. I doubt Hovind's is very large though because he batscat crazy even by YEC standards.

You can accept or reject the theory but all evidence to date supports it.

I've never understood how people couldn't accept that our ancient ancestors and the ancestors of modern great apes were once related. They are too much like us and we are too much like them. Many people still can't believe that all of the races of man are one and the same.

I suppose some people would rather believe in a myth or a fable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2016 03:17PM by anybody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2xyrel-2vI

Watch the entire program.

It's like gravity. It's true, whether you believe in it or not.

+1.0x10^9



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2016 10:58PM by anybody.

Don't worry, most scientists who study evolution think Darwin was wrong too. Well, not wrong about everything, just Lamarckian inheritance.

When your dog buries his bone in the couch cushions and no other dog ever taught him such a thing, that's Lamarckian inheritance. Darwin was all for that. 20th century science, not so much. 21st century science, maybe a little more. These ideas are coming back around in the form of epigenetics.

You would love Joe Rogan's interview of Rupert Sheldrake. He explains how all this stuff works in an entertaining and understandable way. Sheldrake does have his detractors, but they rely on character attacks rather than the debunking of actual science. The reason for this is that science is like a horse with blinders. The blinders promote progress by avoiding wild goose chases after distracting phenomena. It's all part of the money game. Science needs to show results that you can monetize because money pays for it. Unfortunately, to many people the blinders are sacrosanct. Especially people whose paycheck depends on those blinders.

It's a rather unfortunate double bind because esoteric consciousness and the experience of "God" have an underlying fractal physics that isn't being studied but would lead to great social progress if understood. But it's expensive enough to study that the dogma of the gatekeepers can block it.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You would love Joe Rogan's interview of Rupert
> Sheldrake. He explains how all this stuff works in
> an entertaining and understandable way. Sheldrake
> does have his detractors, but they rely on
> character attacks rather than the debunking of
> actual science.

Well...no.
The above gives the impression that Sheldrake is widely acclaimed with only a few detractors. Which isn't the case at all. The case is:

"Morphic resonance is not accepted by the scientific community as a real phenomenon and Sheldrake's proposals relating to it have been characterized as pseudoscience. Critics cite a lack of evidence for morphic resonance and an inconsistency between the idea and data from genetics and embryology. They also express concern that popular attention paid to Sheldrake's books and public appearances undermines the public's understanding of science.

Despite the negative reception Sheldrake's ideas have received from the scientific community, they have found support in the New Age movement, such as from Deepak Chopra."

( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake )

Yeah, that's a ringing endorsement, Deepak Chopra. Not.

Joe Rogan is also one big pseudo-science fruitcake.

> It's a rather unfortunate double bind because
> esoteric consciousness and the experience of "God"
> have an underlying fractal physics that isn't
> being studied but would lead to great social
> progress if understood. But it's expensive enough
> to study that the dogma of the gatekeepers can
> block it.

Or, it's not being studied because it's woo-gobbledygook without a basis in any kind of science whatsoever. There is that.

Pontification is all fine and good, but it doesn't reveal flaws in mathematics or experimental processes. Horses for courses, I guess.

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pontification is all fine and good, but it doesn't
> reveal flaws in mathematics or experimental
> processes. Horses for courses, I guess.

Others have already done just that -- revealed the flaws in those claims. There's no need for me to do so again. And again. And again.

Here we come to the gulf of direct experience. The mystic's personal experience allows him to only be a mystic and the materialist's personal experience allows him to only be a materialist. Maybe "personal" is too constrained in time, as many generations make us who we are. The world takes both kinds. Yang people should be yang and yin people should be yin. And your yin "ain't too shabby".

Anybody who denies evolution, should be forced to deal with impacted wisdom teeth and a burst appendix w/o any medical treatment, because they're absolute proof of evolution.

And, your point is??

"What do you do?"

Hi stuckforever. It can take years to sort it all out and get past the barriers caused by beliefs. This book by Richard Leakey helped me.

Origins: The Emergence and Evolution of Our Species and Its Possible Future
https://www.amazon.com/Origins-Emergence-Evolution-Species-Possible/dp/0708821510

Wow..

I didn't expect for all the atheists to come out of the woodwork and flame me and tell me how stupid I am and announce that I should be rewarded great pain and be given the "Darwin award"..

I thought just maybe that I would have gotten some understanding and help with my struggle...

I thought wrong.

Nothing but hate and bashing on this website.

We were typing at almost the same time. See my post. I've been where you are now.

stuckforever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow..
>
> I didn't expect for all the atheists to come out
> of the woodwork and flame me and tell me how
> stupid I am and announce that I should be rewarded
> great pain and be given the "Darwin award"..

Nobody called you stupid, nobody said you "should be awarded great pain," and nobody said you should be given the Darwin award. Maybe you should read the posts again. And as mentioned many times, evolution has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism.

> I thought just maybe that I would have gotten some
> understanding and help with my struggle...

You did get understanding and help. We understand that your rejection of evolution is based, from what you wrote, not understand and not having knowledge. And that you can fix that by not relying on "belief," but by going and getting some knowledge and education. Perhaps that's not the "help" you were looking for, but it was understanding and help.

> Nothing but hate and bashing on this website.

Not a single post expressed hate towards you, or bashed you. So why respond the way you did?

Basically, the o/p wanted someone to tell him that his indefensible position is perfectly valid.

I don't see where anyone called you stupid, and no one suggested that you be given the "Darwin award". They just stating that it exists as a result of humans evolved behavior.

The one comment, out of all the other ones here suggesting that you experience an "impacted wisdom teeth and a burst appendix" was sarcastic in an attempt to point out that there are traits that we as humans have that show that evolution is a real thing. ETA, actually the comment doesn't even refer to you directly.

All the rest were suggesting that you learn more about the topics to help you.

None of this is easy, you're stuck for a reason. Learning more, using the suggestions provided here or ones you've found on your own, can help, that's pretty much what everyone here has stated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2016 04:49PM by Finally Free!.

Yeah, sorry about that. As you can see, Mormonism tends to burn people out on any belief systems. But, what do you need with a belief system? It's all in front of you to be experienced directly. You don't have to take anybody's word for it, and maybe you shouldn't.

Don't put the cart before the horse. You need to unravel Mormon brainwashing, learn to love yourself unconditionally and to not judge, and experience life without false expectations drilled into your head.

"Nothing but hate and bashing on this website."

Really? "Nothing?"

I gave you a link to a program which explains why evolutionary theory explains the origins of life more satisfactorily than does creationism or "intelligent design." Here's the link again. It suggest that you watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2xyrel-2vI

Darwinism doesn't account for behavior, and humans act apart from instinct unlike any other animal.

I disagree with both of these.

I think evolution very much explains behavior. I'd need to know why you don't think so to craft a rebuttal.

And as for instinct versus agency, I am interested in and tentatively persuaded by Sam Harris that free will is an illusion.

I'm working on a theory that you can rent 'will'. But few people can come up with the deposit you have to leave.

Basically you guys are trying to tell me that the only true answer is evolution, and if you believe in a God or Jesus, you are an idiot.

I refuse to believe that.

Has the LDS church jaded everyone so much that you have stopped believing in God all together?

Seems that is what happened here.

No, I'm not trolling, or trying to stir the pot... I just asked an honest question, and look at all the true colors being shown today.

I do not, nor will ever believe in the LDS church, or evolution.

For the others who have stated kind words and actually trying to help me instead of lecturing me... thank you.

You don't actually want help. You want to be told what you want to hear. Don't kid yourself.

You do seem to be saying, "I don't know what to believe, but I sure know what I'm not going to believe!"

We're certainly with you in terms of la iglesia mormona; the vast majority of us are here for good REASON, not because because some mormon tweaked our noses.

Evolution is an explanation for what is observable. Every time you look for an explanation, the answers you get fit evolution.

For people with open minds, trying to find a way around The Theory of Evolution is as useful as trying to find a way around The Theory of Gravity. They both have the same inevitability. You have to have had your mind made up for you by some person or school of thought to reject Evolution without giving it at least a cursory review.

If you're going to bring up Intelligent Design... Yeah, that's going to be a very rocky road for you here. "Evolution makes as much sense as a tornado hitting a junk yard and all the junk gets sucked up and assembled into a 747, with Virgin Atlantic painted on the sides." Or, "only ghawd could have designed the human eye!" ...catch phrases for lazy thinkers.

stuckforever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Basically you guys are trying to tell me that the
> only true answer is evolution, and if you believe
> in a God or Jesus, you are an idiot.
>
> I refuse to believe that.

See, I haven't got a clue where you got that. Nobody called you an idiot, and nobody said if you believe in god or jesus you're an idiot.

As for evolution -- it's simply a fact. Learn why it is, or don't. Up to you. But "belief" isn't involved. If you think it is, you've missed the point entirely. It's not mormonism, where you're told you have to "believe" in spite of the evidence, it's a fact supported by evidence. Massive amounts of it.

> Has the LDS church jaded everyone so much that you
> have stopped believing in God all together?

I don't believe in a "god" because nobody has ever presented any evidence to show there's any such thing. Nothing to do with having been LDS, and everything to do with eschewing beliefs without evidence. If believing in a god or jesus gives you hope or comfort, great. Enjoy. But believing in god or jesus doesn't mean rejecting facts like evolution. The vast majority of christians in the world accept the fact of evolution. For very good reasons.

> Seems that is what happened here.

If that's how it seems, then I'll suggest you're reading your own feelings into posts, rather than reading what's written.

> No, I'm not trolling, or trying to stir the pot...
> I just asked an honest question, and look at all
> the true colors being shown today.

And you got honest answers. Just because you don't LIKE them doesn't mean people are hating or calling you stupid, nobody did anything like that.

> I do not, nor will ever believe in the LDS church,
> or evolution.

There are good, factual reasons to not "believe" the LDS church. But as has been pointed out to you several times, evolution isn't a matter of "belief." If, without looking at the evidence, have decided that you will never "believe" no matter what the evidence shows, then I feel very sad for you. That's the kind of irrational "faith" that the LDS church demands -- believe it no matter what the evidence shows -- and it seems you haven't been able to shake that indoctrination.

Believe or don't believe what you want. It's your life. But don't insult people who simply point out facts to you. Seriously.

Literally no one has called you an idiot.

A belief in a higher power does not exclude accepting and understanding evolution. Simply understanding and accepting evolution doesn't make a person an atheist either. There's a discussion right now where someone had an email conversation with a bio-complexity scientist who is a believer who also accepts evolution, no one has attacked this person for that.

I happen to be an atheist myself for reasons similar to ificouldhietokolob. When I left the church I looked around and, to me, most other religions had similar issues, not the least of which was little to no evidence for believing in a higher power. That's me, you might be different and good for you.

As for your question, "Am I alone here?" No, you're not. There are plenty of believers on this site. There are frequent discussions on various aspects of multiple religions.

That being said, if you state things that are incorrect or questionable, people are going to point it out and make recommendations for research. That's what happens in the real world...

But that doesn't seem to matter, because when you state that you'll never "believe" in evolution, you've already closed your mind on some very important information that could really help you out.

<Basically you guys are trying to tell me that the only true answer is evolution, and if you believe in a God or Jesus, you are an idiot.>

No one has said that. Your just making stuff up. Basically what was said is that there is EVIDENCE for evolution, there isn't for god.

<I refuse to believe that.>

And there in lies your problem...you don't want facts to get in the way of your belief, so you just refuse to believe the facts, or that the facts really are facts.

<Has the LDS church jaded everyone so much that you have stopped believing in God all together?>

<Seems that is what happened here.>

ificouldhietokolob answered this....has nothing to do with LDS, everything to do with evidence, facts, or the lack there of for god.

<No, I'm not trolling, or trying to stir the pot... I just asked an honest question, and look at all the true colors being shown today.>

Everyone's true colors were facts, evidence, logic, reason....your true colors are rejecting facts in favor of belief, rejecting the input that was given and twisting it to fit your desire.

<I do not, nor will ever believe in the LDS church, or evolution.>

Well there you go! Why ask anything on this board then? That's why you rejected everything that was said....you've already made up your mind.

<For the others who have stated kind words and actually trying to help me instead of lecturing me... thank you.>

Whatever.

I'm pretty sure people are trying to be helpful. They've said that evolution is well supported and really the only solid theory there is. If there is a better explanation it hasn't been discovered/presented/popularized etc.

Belief in evolution doesn't necessarily mean you don't believe in a God, the church takes no position on evolution officially, though most members and doctrines and rituals side with the traditional biblical understanding of things being created in their present form.

You seem to be under the impression that losing one's belief in God is a bad thing and that evolution is somehow a less dignified explanation of the origin of life than the creation story. I beg to differ on both counts. I find life richer and more fulfilling by appreciating the triumph of life's evolution as a self-creative process. It feels so much more holistic and connected with all life than the alternative described in Genesis.

And what's the problem with disbelief in God? The only thing we have in life is each other. Why have an imaginary middle man when that's what it's all about. Cynical men invented the middle man in a less enlightened age to control you.

My advice is learn to love the truth especially when it hurts. And don't ask RFM to pull punches. If they're angry, blame Joe.

I read all the posts trying to see where you were coming from. NONE of the posts say or even imply the "hate" and "bashing" you said. You are acting overly defensive and making things up. You are the one wrong here. You made an ambiguously intended post saying evolution is wrong with zero rational to back it up, implied atheists are all jaded, with zero rational to back it up, which is wanton baiting, and then you mis-caracatured the responses.
You are the definition of a troll.

If you are having personal pain I'm very sorry and I very much hope you find relief. But we didn't do anything wrong.

There's a fairly new and controversial field known as evolutionary psychology that some people quite often like to misuse to promote their misogyny and racism.

If you can't handle your question being answered in frank and educated manner, this site may not be the one for you right now. RfM is filled with educated people who are not likely to coddle your beliefs about scientific facts.

I'm an atheist, but I don't consider myself particularly jaded with the exception of this election cycle and politics in general, lol.

In real time, we can see evolution occurring with bacteria; Where you you think MRSA came from? It evolved from the overuse of antibiotics that used to treat simple infections that didn't need something like Cipro. We can see natural selection play out with elephants and rattlesnakes as they're hunted, and the ones without tusks or rattles are winning at life now.

So I don't know what to tell ya' other than you're entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Biological systems evolve over time by small changes in DNA, mutations or changes in epigenitc signals that lead to greater advantages in survival, continue by preferred reproduction and survival, it happens in viruses, bacteria and humans. This fact is exploited in medicine and agriculture and leads to markers that can show how a genome evolved and how it is related to other genomes. Do some real study.

"Biological systems evolve over time by small changes in DNA, mutations or changes in epigenitc signals that lead to greater advantages in survival, continue by preferred reproduction and survival, it happens in viruses, bacteria and humans."

Dittos. As someone once said, "Anybody who doesn't believe in evolution has never had the flu."

Evolutionary theory is the very basis of the science of biology. The study of genetics, bacteria, viruses, etc., has led to a great deal of modern medicine and cures for diseases. People who say "I don't believe in evolution" are in denial of a major portion of modern science and health care. At this point in time, with our advanced knowledge, that's roughly equivalent to still believing in a flat earth. Evolutionary theory doesn't answer all the questions, but it beats pouring olive oil on a sick person's head and praying over them.

Here's an article which shows that only about 1/3 of Americans don't believe in evolution. So the OP is in the minority.

http://phys.org/news/2014-01-americans-dont-evolution.html

Just because you leave Mormonism doesn't mean you embrace rationalism.

I had a friend who left Mormonism and jumped headlong into astrology and psychic power fantasies.

Nobody insulted you or made fun of you, you stated your position and asked what to do about how you felt. The suggestion was to research evolution and a discussion ensued on various parts of evolutionary science and theory. You chose to get upset, declare us atheists for being able to provide factual knowledge/evidence of evolution.

I'm really not sure what you expected to get from this conversation. Evolution and atheism are not necessarily linked.

I choose to believe that there may be a higher power, but I don't care to define what it may be or give it any attributes. But I'm a scientist and engineer when it comes down to it and evolution is well supported, where as creationism has no factual support. But it is up to you to chose what you believe in, you just need to understand that not everybody will agree with you.

He doesnt believe in evolution either. He accepts it as a fact, which it is.
It's more well established scientific fact than gravity, sincy nobody has ever found a graviton, but the have found vestigsl organs like you appendix, which is a ticking time bomb now, which once served a purpose, like your Wisdom Teeth, when we liked on roots, fresh food and non processed meat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2016 11:13PM by koriwhore.

stuckforever, your username brought out the best in the people who responded to you. Most people who visit this board want to get un-stuck, so ways to do that were offered.

"You don't believe in Mormonism... but you dont believe Darwin either..."

I'm going to ask you to read what I read in your thread title, because this is what I thought you meant:


"I don't believe in Mormonism... but I dont believe Darwin either..."


But now I'm not so sure.


I think you very much believe in Mormonism. You only know and accept their definition of certain words.

It's fairly obvious that you still "buy into" the idea that both Darwin and "atheists" are "evil," and the truth is, you are still terrified of both. That terror belongs to Mormonism, not Darwin, who became a scientist by accident. That terror belongs to Mormonism, not atheists, none of whom on this board tried to offer you anything but education.


"What do you do?"

This plea is why people rushed in, trying to help you find out what to do. They were being kind, but you are still too afraid of "outsiders" to accept that kindness.

When you ask an open-ended question like this, you will recieve open-ended answers. You didn't ask, and I now believe what you really wanted to know, "How do I hang on God, and remain a young-earth creationist, but stop believing in Mormonism?"

You would have received very different answers, and THEN you might have also beem slammed for wanting to hang onto and couple YEC with God, but that didn't happen in this thread, because your questions and position were not very clear.

A belief in God and a belief in YEC are two separate issues, but you don't yet know that.


"I believe that Mormons are false,"


I disagree that you believe this, which exmos and nevermos "are allowed" to do. We disagree freely. We treasure this part of being free. We often disagree with one another, which is what normally happens with healthy people, and how we learn from and about each other. Most of us try to be respectful when disagreeing, but we are also human, and prone to emotions sometimes getting the best of us.

I disagree that you believe that "Mormons are false." I think you still believe at least parts of the Mormon indoctrination. That's okay. When people begin to question Mormonism, it's really frightening, and many want to "hang on to the good parts." You are free to do that; it is your choice, your decision. Nobody is telling you what to believe.

But, I would ask that you not blame others for your not being clear in your statements. I assumed that you meant what you wrote, as did others.


"but also Darwin is wrong too."

I don't think you know anything about Darwin except what Mormons have taught you. You would need to prove to me that you know what you're talking about for us to have an intelligent conversation on the subject.

I will be up front with you about this: If you "believe" that "Darwin is the devil," then you are stating that you don't know anything about his work; you only know what Mormons taught that "he did/wrote." You only know of him through Mormon beliefs. That is why I say that you still believe in Mormonism.


"The JS story is wrong (at first the BoM was supposed to be a work of fiction... he tried to copyright and sell it)... "


There are many, many reasons to disbelieve Mormonism; this is only one of them. Do you know other reasons?


"and Darwinism doesn't account for behavior (animals are born and pretty much act the same way on instinct, except for humans)."


This is a very, very limited view of "Darwinism," and I'm fairly certain that humans act on instinct. We are predators. That cow you ate didn't commit suicide. We wouldn't have gotten this far if we didn't have instincts for survival. That's common sense, right? If you approach a cliff, you slow down as you come nearer to the edge. So do animals, or there wouldn't be many of those around, either. If someone points a gun at you, your instincts will tell you to cooperate with that person, even if you have no defensive training. If a deer smells a cougar, its instincts will tell it to run.

In the case of the gun, non-cooperators will be less likely to survive, and pass on their genes. Deer that don't run from cougars will become food, and stop passing on their genes.

"Lucky" predators have access to meat, or prey animals, which helps their brains to grow, which makes them smarter, and their genes get passed on through greater mating opportunities. Humans are the apex predators on this planet, top of the food chain.

It is your choice to "not believe in" genetics, "not believe" that you inherited your parent's genes, but that is frighteningly blinded to science, and scientific advances. It is condemning yourself to a paucity of education. Your parents' instincts for survival and mating evolved into you, and you will pass their genes to any children you may have. That's the nature of evolution.


"I know some of you are completely atheist now and are completely jaded by it all..."


I don't know what you mean by "atheist," but again, I think you know only a Mormon definition. Will you please explain what you mean?

The "completely jaded" is confusing as well. Again, will you please say what you mean by this?


"and others are still looking."

:) Intelligent people, and you might be one, know that only the unintelligent believe that they know all the answers, and therefore stop looking for them. When they stop looking, they stop learning, and stop growing.


"Am I alone here?"

Only if you want to be.

what did Darwin say that I need to believe ?

for what its worth:
Christianity in the USA seems overwhelmed with creationism, but the majority of christians in the rest of the world (catholicism, anglicans, and many others) accept the fact of evolution.

EssexExMo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> for what its worth:
> Christianity in the USA seems overwhelmed with
> creationism, but the majority of christians in the
> rest of the world (catholicism, anglicans, and
> many others) accept the fact of evolution.


Yep, even in the highest echelons. The movie religulous has a great scene in which Bill Maher interview's the Vatican's astronomer on science. The man agrees with Darwin, vaccines, evolution, everything.

We've been uppity like that ever since we landed at Plymouth Rock.

Not believing mormonism doesn't prove Darwinism.

Of course what Darwin learned was credible and mormonism is not. But so what?

I'd bet that would be typical of most high school and college graduates in the US.

I'm an Atheist but I don't think my friends are stupid because they go to church and believe in God. Nor do I think that of you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2016 11:22AM by Cheryl.

A lot of highly educated people have responded to you on this thread. I'm not one of them. I'm just a high school graduate. I was born and raised Mormon, and I was taught and believed that God created the first humans, Adam and Eve, and that they lived in Missouri 6000 years ago. I was also taught, and believed that the Noachic flood drowned every living thing on earth except for the eight people and the animals aboard Noah's ark circa 4500 years ago.

But modern science such as DNA research and dating methods show that human life has been around for hundreds of thousands of years. Science teaches us that the human race began in Africa, not Missouri, and not in the fertile crescent. You may have seen the recent threads discussing the new research about the route that the ancient Siberians took to reach the Americas circa 12,000 years ago. Research like that refutes the Christian/Mormon beliefs of a 6000-year-old human race, the global flood, and the idea that America's first settlers were Semites from Palestine circa 2500 B.C.

I mention this to illustrate that these Christian/Mormon concepts are all ideas that were invented by religious believers, and they have no basis in scientific fact. That being the case, the very concept of "religion" was invented many, many centuries after human life began. Religion was invented by humans as a way for primitive people to account for unexplainable phenomena, including the question of life after death. The fact that modern scientific research has overturned so many religious ideas which were once considered by most people to be true should tell you that scientific research is more reliable, dependable, and useful for mankind than religion is.

Religion, or a belief in a Judeo/Christian God and/or creationism, is not necessary or even productive in searching for the origins of life. That's why I suggested that you watch the PBS Nova documentary about the Dover, PA school "intelligent design" court case. It explains all of this. If your agenda is to maintain a religious belief, instead of learning scientific facts, then there is no point in studying these issues any more. And there's no point in you criticizing and condemning people who are trying to help you, either.

Why does it matter?

"I am only resolved to act in that manner, which will, in my own opinion, constitute my happiness, without reference to you, or to any person so wholly unconnected with me.?

Evolution has zero impact on your ability to act.

Go ahead and believe in both god and evolution it doesn't hurt at all. Or believe in god and believe what ever level of creation suits you best.

Just for god's sake please try and focus on what is important to your happiness.