I had a rather discouraging conversation with a member of my family yesterday. He claimed that the Mormon church is being persecuted for their anti-gay policies. I laughed out loud at that and reminded him of a number of the things the Mormon church had done over the years to earn the disgust of the wider world who don't share their bigotry against LGBT people. He made a number of very childish denials, and I stopped him and said that it's not my job to educate him about his own religion. I'm not going to collect facts and figures. I'm not going to tell him right from wrong. He's an adult and can make his own decisions, but I'm disappointed in him for having such poor judgment and turning a blind eye to the Mormon church's immoral policies and parroting their lies.

I'm not stupid, and I have a memory longer than six months. I am disgusted by Mormonism and his participation in it, and I don't want to have this discussion again.

It's not the first time I've shut down a Mormon family member, and I'm always disappointed by how fundamentally dishonest they are, as if I'm ignorant. Very hard to respect someone who behaves like that.

Absolutely correct.

The only way to win an argument with a bigoted Mormon is to not argue with them.

It will most likely take decades before they accept LGBT in the congregation, let alone allowing them in the priesthood.

It will also take decades before they allow equal rights for women.

The Mormon church STILL IS a racist, bigoted, backwoods church that discriminates against race, sex, and sexual orientation.

Just don't argue with them.

People need to start SUING the church... bring lawsuits left and right.

DEMAND that Bishops marry gay couples and allow them in the priesthood.

DEMAND that the church allows women to serve in the priesthood.

SUE SUE SUE!!!

Put them on the front page of every paper, and in the top news of every nightly broadcast.

No, you misunderstand me. I don't give a shit about the Mormon church or its clannish subculture in the flyover state in which it resides.

In my opinion, Mormonism is really just about winning arguments and being right. So, it's members go around trolling other people with ridiculous statements and denying very obvious facts. It comes off as childish and dumb. What I'm saying is that I don't want to talk about it at all. Period.

"Mormonism is really just about winning arguments and being right."

Yes, and it appeals to people who need to be right. In other words, insecure people. It feeds their insecurity to hook them in. The church doesn't help people, it hurts people by hindering their development as a human.

I've been thinking for days about what you said about insecurity. That's really the root of it all, isn't it? They feel insecure about themselves, so they join an organization that arms them with an answer for everything. Then the same organization creates a standard of perfection that they can't possibly meet, so they become more insecure. It's a cycle. It's why they can't think for themselves and why they are so, so afraid.

Makurosu wrote: "Mormonism is really just about winning arguments and being right."

This is one of the best summations of TBM psychology I've read in a while. Thanks!

The other alternative is to just walk away and leave the church alone. You are assuming that there are lots of gays and angry women who still believe in, and want to be a part of, the church.Why don't all disenchanted people do as you and I have done and simply walk away. Where people's beliefs are concerned, you cannot change things by forcing the issue.Western countries have been trying to do exactly that, WITHOUT SUCCESS, in places like Afghanistan and the Middle East for decades.

I have two brothers who are like that. Otherwise seemingly intelligent and well versed except when it comes to discussing anything gospel doctrine related.

Thoroughly mopologists, 100%.

Can't have any honest communications with either one of them, they live with blinders on.

Of course that doesn't mean all Mormons are that way. It's the ones who are capable of seeing past the facade that can figure it out eventually. The ones wearing blinders never do. A stubborn fixation born of insecurity, fear, and denial they could be mistaken.

I'd hate to live my life based on lies and fear of the unknown. But they have no problem with that. Their wives are no better, but moreso Cultural Mormons than my bros are. They know it's a crock but go along with their husbands for the sake of harmony and that they are pampered pooches. Who would want to give up a good gig like that?!

;-)

It would be like arguing with a rock...The thickness of the blinders people wear is fascinating.. to not hear or read the news, Google, hear/see the experiences of people around them... It's amazing how much is thrown aside in the name of faith.

and then to top it off with the yelping about discrimination toward them (for ruining people's lives?!)... laughable. and intensely narcissistic. and lacking empathy.

Their feelings are hurt if we don't lend a blind eye to the obvious. The have different versions of their "truth" to suit changing times and for different situations.

You're a trooper to keep trying so hard and for so long to keep the lines of communication open. Good for you.

Even adults are treated like little children in the morg!

>>He claimed that the Mormon church is being persecuted for their anti-gay policies.

To me, "persecuted" is a strong word. It means that someone is doing real harm to you. Not merely disagreeing with you or calling you out for poor behavior.

Always good to see you here, Mak. :)

Dishonesty is doctrinal.

Everyone has the right to their own beliefs and ideas, even if they are wrong.

However, when they discriminate and/or countenance discrimination against others, even in a "protected" church situation, they have to accept the responsibility for their actions.

Germans who knew what their leaders were doing in the holocaust and acquiesced had responsibility for their own action in acquiescing and for the results of their acquiescence.

So for all those lds who acquiesce in the persecution of
LGBTQ and their children, you share in the guilt for the pain and tragedy that result from your moral inadequacy.

you're still kicking Mak.

Bagdad Bob was persecuted too, ya know?

Don't you love it when they feel persecuted because they can't set the rules for everyone else!

Dontchaknow that Mormon lives are so hard because they ALWAYS have so much to get done while that evil outside world can just be so unrelenting in the unending pressures it places on them? It is just so unfair and all. Just think about this....

I mean Mormon members must constantly be on their Mormon game, watching out for all the sins that surround them, like that teasing porn, the worldly books, the titilating television programs, mesmerizing music, thaaat evil LGBT issue, and oh, that insidious internet that could create (horrors) doubt.

Keeping a look-out for sin steals so much time away from what the prophet and Lord requires each member to be doing.... like reading the Ensign along with the many insightful, well-written books from the apostles, journaling daily, attending the temple at least two times a week, etc. etc.

Oh, this persecution stuff has been going on for soooo long. Remember how it started with the wonderful blessed founding prophet? Well, it is just plain unfair and needs to end yesterday!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2016 04:06AM by presleynfactsrock.

I can relate.... my sister and I had a discussion about the

church's new policy regarding the children of same sex couples.

As I was telling her about it thinking she would be as disturbed

about it as I was she just says.... " I don't know about that" as

if to disbelieve me since I am no longer a member. "I have'nt

heard of it" she said. So I said "Ok , I'll send you a link

with the information provided".. that was a month ago and

I have'nt heard from her at all. Its like their minds are

completely closed to any information that might shine a bad

light on the church. She recently married a temple worker after

years of being inactive so its kind of like she not only drank

the Kool Aide but she takes a bath in it every day. I'm done

with it.

Yes, the complete lack of concern for what's right and wrong. They carry the torch for all the Mormon church's fake moral issues, like swearing, tattoos, coffee, and whatever bullshit they're on about at the moment, but they couldn't care less about their own church-encouraged behavior that actually hurts people, and they make childish denials when they're confronted with it. I don't have time for lowlifes like this.

Haters and insecurity go hand in hand. Joseph was a hater. Brigham was a hater. Their church is an extension of them. As a general rule, haters can't change. But then there's us. The exception. Just look at the love in some of these threads. It kinda makes it all worth it.