(Joseph) while he was translating he stopped suddenly, pale as a sheet, and said, ‘Emma, did Jerusalem have walls around it?’ When I answered, ‘Yes,’ he replied, ‘Oh! [I didn’t know.] I was afraid I had been deceived.’ He had such a limited knowledge of history at that time that he did not even know that Jerusalem was surrounded by walls” (Edmund C. Briggs, “A Visit to Nauvoo in 1856,” Journal of History, Jan. 1916, p. 454).

Why would this be a surprise to Joseph? I found it quoted over 20 times in the KJV Bible. Emma was either stupid..or in on the entire ruse!!

This is a follow up from the fake picture that LDS church wants you to believe was how the BOM was translated.

REF: Mormonthink.com


https://www.lds.org/church/news/viewpoint-testimonies-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

isn't this the reason there is a wall around temple square ?

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> isn't this the reason there is a wall around
> temple square ?

Jerusalem WAS surrounded by walls in ancient times, however: the Western Wall is not a boundary wall, but a retaining wall... because of the construction that, in ancient times, existed on top of the hill above (where the Second Temple used to exist before the Romans destroyed it---it is now the site of one of the most important mosques in Islam).

When I was there, the Kotel/"Western Wall" was "ahead" (this is where everyone prays, so everyone faces in this direction as a point of reference)...there were some kind of buildings on the left hand side (the men's side) as you face the Kotel...there was (when I was there) "natural-terrain" hillside on the right (the women's side...which has since, evidently, been replaced by a newly constructed wall and a covered, elevated staircase to the top of the hill), and the place where there would have been a fourth "wall" in the square was open and unobstructed to the higher area of the street (where our bus parked), and behind the parked vehicles, at the somewhat higher elevation, was just Jerusalem.

If you would like to see the Kotel area as is in RIGHT NOW, in real time: www.aish.com/w/46127727.html (It is evening in Israel, and there are still quite a few people walking around the Kotel area.)

The center divider which has been constructed from the Kotel back (towards the somewhat elevated street in back) is the mechitza, which divides the men's section from the women's section. When I was there, you could see through the mechitzah, and you could pass things over the top, for the practical reason that husbands and wives, who may both be in charge of children at that moment, may converse with each other and pass needed things back and forth. This is very probably still true because the problems of parents persist throughout continuing history. :)

When the "Women of the Wall," or other Jewish-equality groups meet on the women's side of the wall, it is not unusual for those on the men's side to shout and throw objects over the top of the mechitza, in an attempt to disrupt the prayer or Torah-reading activities going on in the women's side.

Go look at the live cam...it is very close to the visual experience of being actually there. :) :)

ETA: There is a wider view (in which, on the right, you can see the closed, elevated stairway constructed "out in the air"), and a closer view (which is, to my knowledge, set to broadcast the men's section only)...and I just discovered that there is a third view as well.

I think the live cam automatically changes between the views on some kind of schedule. On the closer-than-widest view, there is only a little bit of the mechitza showing at the right (and it would probably be difficult to recognize if you have not seen it before). In any case, if you get the men's side only view, just wait awhile and the wider view (which includes the Wall to the newly-constructed staircase on the right) will appear in a few minutes.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2016 02:56PM by Tevai.

I really doubt the veracity of that story; why would a guy who "translated by the gift and power of God" think he was being deceived?

One of my favorite STTNG episodes!

Joseph did enjoy his work. What's the point of a long con if you can't have some fun?

This goes along with the "Martin I can't see a thing in the
stone" story where Martin Harris switches seerstones with Joseph
and he can't translate with the new one.

These are examples (rather heavy-handed ones at that) of trying
to look like you're not a fake. In the case with Emma, getting
something off the plates that you, yourself, wouldn't have known
(supposedly), and in the second place letting Martin Harris
"fool" you, thereby proving the real magic of the seerstone.

It's standard for a con to let the mark think they are smarter
than the conman. Of course, the "walls of Jerusalem" one was
kind of crazy. What was Joseph supposed to do if Emma said,
"no, there were no walls around Jerusalem"? Was he supposed to
start doubting the plates that were delivered to him by an
angel and that he was translating by magic? Geesh!

And, of course, the rock that Martin found by the river bank
may have looked a bit like the one Joseph was using, but Joseph
had had the stone in his possession for a few years and had
spent hours staring at it. He would have seen the difference
at once. But instead of saying, "very funny, Martin, now give
me the right stone," he pretended he was fooled.

Standard con behavior--let them think they're smarter than you.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Emma was that dumb. This is one of the stories that makes me think Emma was in on the con from the beginning. Martin Harris may have been a dupe, but I think he was even clued in on the con at some point.

Joseph, unsure about the historical integrity of what he is about to write, calls out, "Emma, did Jerusalem have walls?" When she says "yes" with an expression as if to say "I can't believe you didn't know that," he responds, "hey, that's just what the magic stone said. Don't blame me for asking."

Joseph then proceeds to write about the walls around Jerusalem.

All ancient cities had walls, they needed something to attach the gates to.

Love the comment....why be a conman if you can't have fun doing it?

Yeah, I think ole Joey was having the time of his life being...

1. the big important man in his group of dupes

2. lazily enjoying his work of letting others pay for his escapades and do all of the hard lifting

3. laughing over and over at how well his congame was moving right along and doing so well

4. and, of course, having his pick of the maidens that he took a fancy to and figuring out his plan of attack to win their company