Probably *not* a mormon, but c'mon, this the 21st century, we should be beyond this:
https://gma.yahoo.com/12-old-girl-faces-online-backlash-over-hunting-113309909--abc-news-topstories.html

I'd say something, but I just had a meatball sandwich for lunch.

I just groaned when I saw this on TV and heard them mention Utah. I think this kind of hunting is appalling but I was much more appalled by her attitude. She said that she "cherished" hunting animals like this and she wasn't going to listen to anything anyone said - she was going to keep doing it no matter what.

That is a lot of heartlessness from someone so young. To the point of being disturbing, since enjoying killing animals and a lack of compassion are NOT healthy signs in a child. To be clear, this wasn't some little girl hunting deer with her father for the first time and excited about it. Hearing her talk, it was more of a "I'll kill what I want to kill and you can't stop me" attitude. Very disturbing.

Thats what I've always understood as well...

There is really no way to look at this in such a simplistic manner like "hunting bad, not hunting good".

Just look at what is happening to the lion population in Africa since restrictions have been put in place since Cecil the lion was killed. It is no longer profitable for hunting reserves to have a lot of lions around for people to hunt, instead they kill the animals they are trying to preserve for hunting and are now treated basically as pests. Water holes are poisoned to kill them off and the lion population is taking a big hit.

Previous to Cecil the lion, lions were fostered and po;ulation was growing as the massive hunting reserves mad ea lot of money from people coming to hunt them. Now that people don't come to hunt them they are being killed off in large numbers.

I'm not a hunter at all, but to say it is an aweful, horrible thing just doesnt tell the whole story.

There were so many lions that they had to draw a well-known lion off of a protected preserve in order for a client to have something to shoot? Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

Sure, let's see the photos of 800 orphan children enjoying giraffe stew or roast zebra. Why isn't she posting those photos?

Yes, we should be WELL beyond this.

Mormons and guns go hand in hand... and most of them love hunting animals.

not to be political but all of this will be fixed soon...

This is absolutely atrocious.

step by step we make progress

Tinywishes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> not to be political but all of this will be fixed
> soon...
>

and what is that supposed to mean ????

The statement, "Step by step we go in circles," has just as strong a base for support as do "step by step we make progress" and "step by step we approach our doom."

I advocate for the point of view that 'shit happens', because the Bell Shaped Curve hasn't been wrong yet. 'Shit happens' is just a tiny slice of the curve, and isn't that a nice thing?

I never get the hatred towards hunting in general. Over hunting species or hunting already endangered species is loathsome. Plenty of people just want to kill anything they can for reasons I will never understand myself but hunting isn't inherently destructive or evil. Predator-prey is pretty much the default structure of our entire existence on this planet.

I don't know enough about the game in the part of Africa this young lady was hunting to know if she was doing damage or not and I suspect 99% of the people commenting about the story are in the same boat. Rich assholes blowing holes in animals then bragging about it tends to put most people off and I am no exception to that but I think people tend to overact to these things very badly.

The thing is these species don't exist in a vacuum. Many animals if left unchecked will quickly over populate to the point of mass die offs from starvation because we humans keep predator numbers down in order to protect food sources and we try and keep competition for food between game species and domestic species to a minimum, etc. Hunting is a way for man to try and maintain some form of balance in a world that we have grown far too large as a species in to leave unchecked.

Short of a mass die off of man, we aren't ever going to be able to just leave other species alone ever again. The choice between raising funds for conservation and game management by allowing people to hunt or just having the various countries version of the division of wildlife go out and mass slaughter animals to keep their numbers in check seems pretty simple to me.

There are an estimated 30 million deer in the U.S. vs. maybe 80K giraffes in the wild, and maybe 20-25K lions. Sure, hunt deer. I have no problem with that. But leave the rarer African animals alone. No American needs to hunt a giraffe, a zebra, or a lion.

^ Agreed. I never understood the blanket condemnation of hunting. Provided it is done safely, ethically, and in a fashion that is not destructive to a species or the environment as a whole, I see nothing wrong with hunting. Even more moronic is calling it "murder" as I've seen it hurled a this young woman and others.

Isn't it a basic truth regarding life on earth, that *nature* will fill any void, whatever its cause? And certainly that would include the disappearance of Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

It's stunning to the 1st world, occidental, full stomached mind that canis lupus familiaris could ever be a dinner table staple.

Rover Alfredo...

A utah TV station filmed dad saying the most important thing of all was that they were "making memories" together.

All very good points, but as I have to kill animals in my line of work (a huge overpopulation of squirrels wreaking havoc in the orchard) I take no joy in it, and you don't see me smiling next to a carcass in photo's. I get some satisfaction in making a good shot, but I take no joy in having to shoot a furry little mammal, and (this may sound silly) I apologize to each one I shoot; I believe the tradition in many native American cultures is to do the same, and thank the animal for giving them food and clothing and bone for tools.

What got me the most, the little girl's statement:

"I'll never stop hunting, no matter what."

Had she not said that, I might have been inclined to give her a bit of a break, since these weren't actually endangered animals. But since she did say it, I can't. Because it shows the endangered status of animals doesn't matter to her, she's gonna go kill 'em no matter what.

Makes me wonder what she and her dad will hunt when the animals run out...

Most 12 year old girls are enamored with pandas and cute ponies; to be out killing lions and giraffes is not normal, I say!

because giraffes and zebras need to be killed.

I was a deer hunter for many years back when my knees and back allowed it. I ate everything I killed. If that gets me some hate messages, so be it. I'm a big boy and I can take it. I eat meat to this day but not as much as I did when our farming/cattle business raised it's own. Now I just shoot at clay targets.

RB

Me too. Usually got my deer and elk every year. Best meat on the planet. I quit because it started giving me gout. And if I'm not hunting to eat, I don't need to hunt. Although I still bird hunt a bit.

I'm not a hunter but many of my friends hunt deer & elk. They respect the land, rules & eat all the meat they kill. They despise poachers & wasters that just kill animals for the hell of it. There's a big difference in deer/elk hunting & people that take guided trips to kill rare animals just to hang them on a wall or have their pictures taken. Society used to revere big game hunters a century ago. Now, we see them as selfish assholes.

Trophy hunting like that should be a thing of the past.

That news story hit a nerve with me. I don't think it is cute at all to teach a child to go around killing things just for the sport of it. Where is the empathy?

Yes, I recognize living things have to kill living things to survive. I get that. I didn't design that cruel system. I'm probably >80% vegan now because I know all too well about what animals go through to end up in our fancy restaurants.

But animals for trophies? That's disappointing.

Would that dad and little girl like to have their heads stuffed and mounted on a wall just to look at and brag about? No? Didn't think so. Assh0les.

I have no problem with her hunting these animals if authorized under by a responsible government, which tracks the various species by number and issues hunting licenses to qualified hunters. Problems arise when hunting and trapping is prohibited, and certain species over-breed, or when it is not regulated, and excessive hunting decimates an animal group. Either way, the ecology of an area goes askew.

I appreciate BruceMalarkey's post about the shooting of Cecil the Lion, above. This dastardly act provoked -- incorrectly, but understandably -- a public over-reaction to lion hunting. The prohibition on lion-hunting then resulted in excessive -- unregulated-- lion deaths. A good demonstration of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

In Massachusetts, feel-good legislation prohibited almost all beaver trapping, resulting in an explosive increase in beavers* who built more dams and a lot of property damage from increased flooding.

And I have no trouble with a father taking his daughter on a safe & legal hunting trip, either on the Wasatch Front or to Africa.

*No puns, please!

I can appreciate all of the responses above that noted an ecological perspective on hunting, and/or, of course, hunting as a food source.

But my problem with it is a deeper, human objection:

Why is it that human beings get some rush from hunting down and killing a living thing, exotic or not?

How is this "feat" an accomplishment, or something to be proud of and to display on your wall? So, you shot and killed a defenseless animal, good for you.

Why is the human instinct to kill more important than the intellectual understanding that animals are conscious beings, that have lives to enjoy, offspring, etc., such that being hunted, and shot negatively impacts the physical and mental well-being of the animal, as well as other animals that may be associated with them? Do we really have to display our superiority by killing them? Isn't it enough to just capture them, remove them from their habitat, and imprison them in zoos?

If, in fact, killing animals is a genuine response to ecological problems, can't we at least kill them humanely, and regret it, instead of using it as an opportunity for hunters to gratify their macho egos.

Oh, and here's a thought. The next time we have over-population in some region of the world, why don't we just introduce a bunch of lions into the population to bring back the ecological balance. Then, if someone posts a photo of a some poor soul being eaten, causing viral objections, we can dismiss it as an overreaction to a very real problem.

I'm not a hunter, but I have no problem with those who hunt and actually eat the meat of whatever animal they kill. The problem is the type of hunting where people just shoot an animal for the sick pleasure it gives them, especially if they just leave the carcass to rot after they've gotten their picture taken with it.

I would assume that all the people here who complain about hunting are total vegans?

In our modern society where meat comes from the grocery store, it is easy to forget that animals must be slaughtered and butchered before there is meat available for eating.

I like hunt'n and critters are tasty

I had an older guy tell me about killing animals to eat. He grew up in easterner Europe during the second world war. Few of us will ever know what it's like to have nothing to eat and seeing family and friends die of starvation. His words were " Don't ever judge someone that kills to feed his family."