Looking for advice here: I'm an exmo atheist and my girlfriend and I have been together for about six months. for the most part, things are going really well. she's sweet, loving and has a great sense of humor. There are however, a few things that concern me. My girlfriend is Mormon, but she drinks alcohol and coffee regularly, we have sex, and she hasn't attended church in years. She does have a deeply seeded belief and although she knows about the historical/ethical/logical issues of the church (and religion in general) she says that what is important is the "base beliefs" and that I focus too much on the issues of the Mormon Church. From what she's said to me, she really wants to raise her kids in the Mormon Church, and is worried that I will "force them into my (dis)belief before they have a chance" (slow clap for irony). I've made it very clear that if she wants to take our children to church, etc. she'll have to go alone. It's clear that my lack of belief really bothers her, even though she says that she loves me for who I am. I really like this girl and I can see us potentially having a future, but will these issues be too much? Personally it would be best for me to leave Mormonism behind completely and not to have to think about it ever again, something that's not possible with her. I do think that she's worth it though. Can this work? Should I try?
Thanks

Wondering exactly what she means by "core beliefs." The core of mormonism is control and manipulation. Your friend doesn't want to bother with church for herself but does want to impose it on children and that smacks of hypocrisy.

There are some who think the mormon church is the best way to rear children. It isn't. It teaches them racism, bigotry, sexism and homophobia. A child of a non-participating parent will hear at every meeting how it's their job to get their parents to church. They'll learn that their parents are inferior to mormons and that their example is poor so kids shouldn't listen to them. As they mature, they'll be taught that they should marry in the temple and that their parents are unworthy to attend and must sit outside during the event. These kids will be told that how their parents live is wrong right down to their underwear.

Mormonism only works well for families who all agree that it's the one true church.

Are their exceptions? If so, they are few and far between and I have never seen one personally.

A lot of good advice in this thread, so read them all twice and print them out and read them again.

Then read Cheryl's one more time.

7 billion people on this planet and more than half are women. Do the math and then decide.

I also have never seen one personally, and I've been around a long time. My son married an inactive mormon from a very active family. They got married because she was pregnant, but he thought they had an understanding that he'd never be active in the church again and he really didn't want their child being raised in the church. There was always something inside me that knew it wasn't going to work. I think it's harder for women who have been raised in the church, especially if they are inactive because they just didn't like it and not because they did any studying to really understand the fraudulence of it. They have children and the old brainwashing sets in. They start being afraid of losing their families in the eternities.

My son is now divorced (not just because of church issues) and his ex is living near her family and my granddaughter is in total indoctrination mode, can't wait to be baptized next year and is being taught that her daddy is bad because he's not a mormon.

DO NOT start a family until you are sure you are on the same page about how you, as a family will be with the church. Many mixed religion families are very happy. It is much harder, though, to mix mormonism and Athiesm without some very clear-cut understandings. I'd get some counseling before marriage. You may both have to give a little. That's ok, just make sure BEFOREHAND that what you are expected to give on is something you can live with.

Only you can honestly answer that question for yourself.

If you love her you would know. Sounds like you've been in an ongoing serious relationship already and seeking validation.

If you're willing to go the distance and you both love each other what's to wonder? You say she's inactive but may raise her children LDS?

For your girlfriend who hasn't attended church in years, drinks alcohol and coffee regularly, and is in a pre-marital relationship with you of some duration, she doesn't sound like she's shown much interest in jumping back into Mormonism. If she does, well then are you ready to raise your kids outside your faith values?

She doesn't sound like a Mormon to me from what you describe. Maybe she's just fooling herself or messing with you.

Other than that, only you know in your heart if you love her enough to want to share your life with her.

You've already made a major concession in that you said she could take the kids to church. Yet you state that your lack of belief really bothers her and that you would force your children into your disbelief. I don't think she is conceding anything to you in return. She is asking that her beliefs be respected but that yours not be respected. You two are not on the same page.

I think the question comes down to, how do you want to raise your kids? Do you really want them raised in Mormonism? As Cheryl pointed out, there is danger in that. Your children could be taught to treat you with contempt as a non-believer.

A lot of your dilemma is risk-assessment. It's possible that she may not have the wherewithal to return to church. But we've heard a lot of cases over the years of spouses who go full-on TBM once the kids arrive.

I saw this situation twice while serving in a bishopric. Your future bride doesn't realize what would be in store for her and you.
1. She is planning on just dropping off the children? Not likely. The hooks will be implanted slowly pulling her in.
2. HT/VT will then be either taking your children to Ward activities as they get older and your wife remains inactive or her "re-activation" takes full swing. Assuming of course she is honest with the bishop about her premarital life and current habits.
3. The contrasts taught to the children concerning righteous parents and their perceptions will potentially be a problem for both of you.
4. Both kid(s)and parent(s) will be discussed at Ward Council, bishopric meetings and likely more intensely at RS and Primary presidency meetings

The potential for unpleasantness grows for you if your wife becomes very active- the outcome of the two examples I saw- and the marriage then has a wedge.

Hope this enlightens you a bit.

Gatorman

My dad re-activated to church activity and my mom became a convert when I was six years old. I'd been raised a Mormon more or less up to then, but it became official once my parents were sealed in the temple when I was 6, and gave up their coffee, smokes, alcohol etc to do that.

Their marriage didn't do too well in spite of that. It was downhill all the way. Going back to church may have helped us children have a better grasp of what normalcy was, but our parents were not served well because of it. They divorced by the time I was 16. So ten years in all of total church activity for both of them, and it destroyed their marriage.

Dad and mom both went inactive following their divorce, ended up marrying jack Mormons like themselves, and stopped attending church once and for all.

My brothers nor I are smokers to this day. But second hand smoke in our home by our parents when I was a child and then later as an older teenager became problematic for our lungs. At least 3 out of 4 of us suffer from lung damage. One of our brothers died of childhood cancer, I believe it may have been caused by 2nd hand smoke in the home. He was the reason my parents quit their bad ways and decided to go back to church. My baby sister died from malnutrition before she was even born because my mom was more concerned about gaining weight during her pregnancies than she was the health of her unborn kids. (She died at five days old from being underdeveloped although full-term.)

I love my parents dearly and try to honor them as my parents, both now long deceased. But did the church save them? No. Did it foster closer family ties among us children? No. Why we turned out as well as we did I attribute to a modern day miracle and the love of G-d, who didn't leave us dangling but has brought us through the vicissitudes of life even despite our narcissistic parents.

"she says that what is important is the "base beliefs" and that I focus too much on the issues of the Mormon Church."
The 'issues of the Mormon Church' ARE the 'base beliefs'. You've shown that these issues/base beliefs are FALSE, yet she still hangs onto them.

"will these issues be too much?"
YES, absolutely!

To avoid 50 years of heartbreak, arguments, and sorrow, drop her NOW. Pursue a good life for yourself. You won't have one with her.

I have seen many cases of someone falling in love with a jack-Mormon, assuming that the jack was really out of the church's control. BUT as soon as children arrived, the jack soon was back in the church, full-bore, and raising the kids to wonder why their other parent was not going to heaven with them.

DO NOT have children with this woman!

Dating for six months and you're already talking children. Slow down. Mormonism aside you have a lot of other items to work through before you start having children.

Even if your GF-wife doesn't return to activity, she wants her kids to be Mormons.

Should the church manage to successfully indoctrinate the kids, they (kids) will want a temple marriage when their turn comes. You will not be permitted to attend any of those marriages. Period. Your own children.

How appealing to you is that prospect?

You want us to tell you what to do, or validate what you already want to do.

It's human nature to ask others to make our hard decisions or validate our hard decisions. I get it. I do it too. But ultimately, it's YOUR hard decision. You're the only one who can make it. Thus you should not read anything that follows.

Summer is raising a good point regarding compromise. You seem to have, she hasn't. I married a jack mormon. Things were great, when mormonism was an abstract concept. When it wasn't (after kids), our home became different. There was HT/VT. Not living up to the gospel/expectations of mormonism. Talk of modesty. A lot less loud laughter. Contention. Lies. Would this have come about without mormonism? I can't say. All I know is it came about with mormonism.

You're proposing a gamble. A wager.
From my standpoint, risks include: Will she reactivate? Will she compel the kids? Will they be directed/swayed against the apostate? Will they be cajoled to go to the temple for dead dunking/marriage/mission? Will they see you as the failure the church believes you are?
Rewards include: a lifetime of blissful happiness. (Aside: you don't even have that now if you're coming here outlining your concession and her demand for more). Happy, well adjusted children. Riding off into the sunset (or Florida, Gods waiting room).

Honestly evaluate the odds. Do the risks outweigh the rewards? Vice versa?

I couldn't evaluate the odds. I didn't know enough about the risks. I didn't understand the temple. I didn't know about the racism, bigotry, homophobia, lies, control and immoral (from my way of thinking) actions.

Simply put, you will either talk yourself into marrying this girl, or analyze yourself out of your relationship.

Whatever you decide, you will have to live with your decision and so will she.

If you can see yourself with her in five years, or ten, and still happy in love... (or at least the prospect of a future together,) that is what I would want to know.

If you can't see waking up tomorrow and asking yourself what you got yourself into, you probably aren't going to go the distance.

Relationships take a big commitment, not what others think or say about it, but what really matters to you - in the end is the price you'll pay for either reticence or jumping in to the deep end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2016 12:07PM by Amyjo.

A lot of marriages where one person is religious and the other not, usually have no problem raising the children in the faith of the practicing parent, for instance, like if one is Jewish and the other isn't.
Your case is a little different though, as of now she isn't practicing. As someone mentioned, she would have to take them and be involved in the church again for that to happen. You shouldn't be made to attend, I've seen plenty of members , where only one spouse attended. Some people do go back to church, once children are born, but the parent is usually still living the life of the church, just not attending.
Maybe she should go to a few meetings now and see how she feels going. She might be thinking of it in theory, but in actuality, it won't come to anything.

She doesn't go to church, but you're already arguing about church and religion. You don't have any children, but you're already arguing about how you would raise the children.

These arguments are only going to become bigger when they become real. My advice, cut your losses now and move on. It will be a lot less traumatic both financially and emotionally in the long run. And you won't have to worry about ruining these mythical children's lives.