The Book of Abraham was one of the 3 issues I put to GAs. They and BYU professors offered 2 explanations - the ‘missing papyri argument’ and the ‘catalyst for revelation argument’. Neither had merit nor stood up to scrutiny.

Their final ‘proof’ was for me to put aside the translation issues and prayerfully study again the BoA. The truths contained in it, would attest to its truthfulness. I did this and the so called ‘truths’ were obviously false and therefore proved the opposite to what they wished.

Years later TSCC published an essay on the BoA that offers this same basic premise. I therefore gather they, the 15 and BYU academics, accept the BoA is not scripture but they have published this essay to fog the issue and give cover to TBMs looking for an excuse to believe. I see it as their coded statement that the book is not true, but made up by Joe.

The BoA is a smoking gun for TSCC and this essay has been comprehensively debunked by Ritner and others as reported in http://www.mormonthink.com/essays-book-of-abraham.htm

However, taking the essay as published by TSCC, it basically admits to those who are aware that the the BoA is made up nonsense.

The conclusion to this essay states:-

“The veracity and value of the book of Abraham cannot be settled by scholarly debate concerning the book’s translation and historicity. The book’s status as scripture lies in the eternal truths it teaches and the powerful spirit it conveys. The book of Abraham imparts profound truths about the nature of God, His relationship to us as His children, and the purpose of this mortal life. The truth of the book of Abraham is ultimately found through careful study of its teachings, sincere prayer, and the confirmation of the Spirit.”

This conclusion in itself is false. When they say the veracity cannot be settled by scholarly debate they are merely stating they do not accept the scholarly and obvious evidence against the BoA.

However, a bigger error, and one they must have deliberately chosen is the reliance on the eternal truths taught in the BoA. These so called eternal truths are all, in fact, false and obviously so to any high school student let alone prophets,seers, revelators and BYU professors. They are wrong on cosmology, on evolution, on the age of the Earth, on Egyptian history and are outright racist.


So what are these eternal truths it teaches?

That blacks are a cursed race
That God has chosen who shall be rulers on earth - divine right of kings
The son of Egyptus (Ham’s daughter) was the first Pharaoh of Egypt
The Sun receives (borrows) its light from Kolob (instead of generating its own light through nuclear fusion)
6 day creation of the Earth
Adam names every living creature
The origins and government of Egypt
Abraham learns about the sun, moon and stars (cosmology)
Egyptian Gods
Pre-existence
Foreordination

Not one of these ‘eternal truths’ is actually true. They are all false. For those interested let’s look at them a little closer:-

That blacks are a cursed race
1:21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
1:27 Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood,

That God has chosen who shall be rulers on earth - divine right of kings
3:23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.

The son of Egyptus and Ham was the first Pharaoh of Egypt
1:25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
1:21 Now this king of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.

The Sun receives (borrows) its light from Kolob (instead of generating its own light through nuclear fusion)

6 day creation of the Earth (in the wrong order)
Abraham 5

Adam (man) made first, then names every living creature
5:20 And out of the ground the Gods formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air, and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them; and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that should be the name thereof.
5:21 And Adam gave names to all cattle, to the fowl of the air, to every beast of the field; and for Adam, there was found an help meet for him.

The origins and government of Egypt
22 From this descent sprang all the Egyptians, and thus the blood of the Canaanites was preserved in the land.23 The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
24 When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
25 Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
27 Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;
28 But I shall endeavor, hereafter, to delineate the chronology running back from myself to the beginning of the creation, for the records have come into my hands, which I hold unto this present time.
31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.
2:7 For I am the Lord thy God; I dwell in heaven; the earth is my footstool; I stretch my hand over the sea, and it obeys my voice; I cause the wind and the fire to be my chariot; I say to the mountains—Depart hence—and behold, they are taken away by a whirlwind, in an instant, suddenly.

Abraham learns about the sun, moon and stars (cosmology)
3:5 And the Lord said unto me: The planet which is the lesser light, lesser than that which is to rule the day, even the night, is above or greater than that upon which thou standest in point of reckoning, for it moveth in order more slow; this is in order because it standeth above the earth upon which thou standest, therefore the reckoning of its time is not so many as to its number of days, and of months, and of years.
7 Now the set time of the lesser light is a longer time as to its reckoning than the reckoning of the time of the earth upon which thou standest.
9 And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
10 And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
11 Thus I, Abraham, talked with the Lord, face to face, as one man talketh with another; and he told me of the works which his hands had made;

13 And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven.
17 Now, if there be two things, one above the other, and the moon be above the earth, then it may be that a planet or a star may exist above it; and there is nothing that the Lord thy God shall take in his heart to do but what he will do it.
24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

Egyptian gods
1:14 That you may have an understanding of these gods, I have given you the fashion of them in the figures at the beginning, which manner of figures is called by the Chaldeans Rahleenos, which signifies hieroglyphics.
https://www.lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&_r=1

All of these 'eternal truths' can be debunked as nonsense. I have not used space in this OP to do so. Rather I invite any of you to comment on these errors.

Don't forget that the Egyptians did not call themselves that or anything like unto it. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Egypt

So, the "Egyptus" thing really falls flat on its face, and the history of Egypt as told by our beloved prophet isn't even out the gates yet. There is no level of 'wrong' you can be about something beyond 'utterly and completely ignorant' especially while pretending to be absolutely certain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2016 07:29AM by Cold-Dodger.

"Egyptus" is the Latin version of "Aygptos" which is the Greek
version of "Hwt-kA-Ptah" (Temple of the soul of Ptah) one of
the names for Memphis (center of the cult of Ptah), which was
the lower-Egyptian capital city. The Greeks named the whole
country for their version of their city.

The word is NOT Chaldean, and does NOT mean "forbidden."
Clearly Joseph Smith was creating a "just so story" which gives
Egypt its name. However the Egyptians never called their land
"Egypt" or anything like it. They called it "kemet" the black
land (referring to the rich alluvial soil deposited by the
annual overflowing of the Nile), they called it "Tawy" meaning
"the two lands" referring to Upper Egypt (Nile valley) and
Lower Egypt (the Delta) which were originally separate
countries until unified by Narmer around 3200 B.C.E., they
called it Ta-nfr, "Beautiful land."

It is called "Egypt" only in languages which got their word for
it through Greco-Roman sources.

"Egyptus" is not a word that Abraham would have known. Woody
Allen wrote a humorous essay called "The Scrolls" which is a
spoof on the story of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
In his essay he mentions that doubt has been cast on the
authenticity of "the Scrolls" due to the appearance of the word
"Oldsmobile" in them. "Egyptus" is Joseph Smith's "Oldsmobile."

And as far as the "missing scrolls" theory goes, we can avoid
all that and still show that JS had no clue what he was doing.
In Facsimile 3 there is a readable Egyptian text that is
IDENTIFIED BY JOSEPH SMITH and interpreted by him. You can
learn what that text actually says here:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1569142,1569142#msg-1569142

And yet Joseph Smith III and his branch were clearly able to see the Book of Abraham was not scripture. If there is an inspired branch of Mormonism you can find it there.

The BofA was the thing that broke my shelf. When I discovered that it was completely made up by JS, my thoughts immediately went to "If he made that up, he made it ALL up!" And, mentally, I was out at that moment.

By that logic, Marvel Comics impart profound truths. Why don't they adopt comic books as scripture?

This is great. Thanks for taking the time to put this together!

And we all know that when you make up stuff, that it's difficult to keep the story straight and this whole enchilada is full of contradictions.

Great post! This was the ton of TNT that destroyed my shelf.

In “No Man Knows My History,” the main problem Fawn Brodie saw with the BoA was the fact that it established LDS racism in scripture: “the Book of Abraham was the most unfortunate thing that Joseph ever wrote…its racial doctrine preserved the discrimination that is the ugliest thesis in existing Mormon theology.”

It doubled down on the racism of the BoM, adding people of African descent to the native people of the Americas.

Their case boils down to, "We know it looks like total bullsh!t, but just trust us."

Even though the church position on the BoA is "It's true even if it isn't true, and that's good enough for us", I have found an authentic picture of the absolutely historically correct event depicted of Abraham and the idolatrous priest and the angel guy.

Once again, 100% correct in its depiction of the ancient Middle East, and proof of the authenticity of the Book of Abraham:

http://blog.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Abraham.jpg

It originally accompanied a March 1997 Ensign article titled "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book."

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1997/03/the-book-of-abraham-a-most-remarkable-book?lang=eng&_r=1

Repeating my experience in learning of the BOA's fraudulence:

Early on, around 1997, I had read scholarly articles from Mormon scholars such as Stephen Thompson and Edward Ashment which stated that the papyrus had nothing to do with Abraham, and the lion-couch scene did not depict Abraham being attacked by a wicked priest. I also read Charles Larson's book "By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus."

At that time, I had assumed that church leaders and writers were honest men, and that they would surely make changes to fall in line with these scholars' findings. But then shortly after that, I got my monthly Ensign in the mail and it featured an article about the BOA, which had an artists' rendering of the wicked priest attacking Abraham, as depicted on the altered "lion-couch" facsimile. This painting accompanied the Ensign article:

https://www.lds.org/media-library/images/abraham-39462?lang=eng

Of course, that entire storyline is based on Joseph Smith's nonsensical "translation" of the vignette. The fact that church leaders continue to maintain that discredited interpretation and storyline told me they MUST KNOW the truth, but that they choose to maintain the lie. That was one of the biggest realizations that led me out of the church.

The Met Museum in NYC had an Egyptian display of funeral objects. It was like walking onto the scene of the drawings i'd always looked at in my scriptures when bored in church.

Each jar, each table,and papyrus had detailed descriptions about their use and meaning. I don't know how any mormon could spend ten minutes at that display and remain mormon. My TBM stepson and was with me. He didn't want to spend a minute looking at any of that stuff. I told him to go ahead, but I wanted to see this stuff and learn what their use was. He looked a bit disturbed, but kept on going.

It would be sooooo cool (in my estimation), to put sun glasses on Abraham and a missionary badge on the angel.

Did JSjr use his seer stone to translate the BofA?

And the angel looks a tad bit Joseph Smithish:

https://www.josephsmithjr.org/photos/Joseph%20teaching.jpg

They are all so clean shaven and white. I never knew that. Art teaches you something new everyday. Especially church art.

"They are all so clean shaven and white. I never knew that."

I noticed that in that painting too, when I first saw it 19 years ago. Abe and the angel have missionary haircuts---but the church publishes lots of paintings of Jesus with long hair and a beard.

I just read here on RFM the other day the statement...."Just because he made it all up...doesn't mean it isn't true !" (I can't remember whose post it was and who authored the comment...I don't take credit for it but I love the comment as it applies so well to all of Mormonism.)

I love that statement and where more does that apply than here to the BOA....and those comments from the essay....isn't that what they're really saying through all there gobble-de-goop??

"I just read here on RFM the other day the statement...."Just because he made it all up...doesn't mean it isn't true!"

Richard Packham and I have repeated that quote several times. It comes from a low-budget Mormon-themed movie called "Plan 10 From Outer Space."

http://www.echocave.net/plan_10_from_outer_space.html

Yes, the aliens had beehive heads and one all-seeing eye.

And "Aigyptos" (the Greek name for Egypt) is derived from the name of the temple of the god Ptah in Memphis.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2016 04:13PM by anybody.

Thanks Tom!

As others have mentioned, understanding the BofA controversy was a first step out. Many years ago, I saw a showing of IRR's DVD, "Lost BooK of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim" at the University of Utah that really got me thinking. BTW - in case folks are interested you can get a free copy from IRR - http://mit.irr.org/category/book-of-abraham.

About the same time, I went through the Thomas Stuart Ferguson papers at the University of Utah library (special collections). Thomas' change of heart (basically lost his testimony) and the fact that the NWAF found absolutely nothing to support the BofM was another huge nail in the coffin.

Then there was Tom Murphy's paper that really shook things up. Some folks may remember the church wanted to X Tom but there were demonstrations and vigils held for him outside church headquarters that brought a lot of publicity to the issue. http://mormonscripturestudies.com/bomor/twm/lamgen.asp

And of course, you mentioned Ritner's review which is yet another nail in the coffin. I have to think that anyone that can stay the course in ChurchCo is simply stupid. And unfortunately, this is now how I view friends and family that stay in - they are stupid and I can't help them. So be it - we all have our own lives to live the way we want.

The only people who don't believe that the Joseph Smith translation of the Book of Abraham Facsimiles are true are anti-Mormons. Anyone who believes in the Church has to believe these Facsimiles were translated correctly. It is canonized scripture. Now of course any of you are free to reject the sacred doctrines of the Church just as Tom Phillips has demonstrated by his radically contradictory theory against sacred doctrine that the temporal existence of the earth might exceed 7000 years. But to be a TBM we need to accept and fully believe that all these doctrines are factual truths. If we don't believe these things then we aren't TBM or we are just phony liars.

Oh how wonderful it would be if every Bishop in the world would hold a press conference today to denounce the anti-Mormon beliefs of Tom Phillips about the Book of Abraham facsimiles, temporal existence of the earth being blasphemously longer than the timeframe that Revelation declared, and other clarifications on church doctrine. That way Mormons would get the respect they deserve for our prophetic doctrines.

I assume this is meant as satire. If so, well done.

If not, please support your claims that JS did truly translate the papyri and the claimed 'eternal truths' stated in the OP are indeed true instead of being obviously false. Please provide evidence that the temporal existence of this planet will only be 7000 years.

Because church leaders and BYU professors are unable to support their claims.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2016 05:03PM by Tom Phillips.

I also have to say that's some clever satire "honest tbm". On the other hand maybe Tom's comments triggered a twitch right under the skin and he couldn't stay quiet.

Tom Phillips Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I assume this is meant as satire. If so, well
> done.

Tom,

After carefully reading the ten postings of "Honest TBM" on this board, I have concluded that they are all satire. It's just too good to be otherwise, unless, of course, the poster is seriously demented which I doubt.

Templar

Honest TBM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only people who don't believe that the Joseph
> Smith translation of the Book of Abraham
> Facsimiles are true are anti-Mormons.

What a ridiculous illogical and self serving statement. All recognized Egyptologists who have examined the papyri and so-called facsimiles over the past 180 years have come to the same conclusion - they are common funereal objects buried with the dead and have no connection with Abraham whatever. To my knowledge, NONE of these professionals has ever written an anti-Mormon book nor sought to bring down the church. They have merely expressed their profession opinions regarding the material when requested.

Joseph's "inspired" translations are nonsense which is abundantly clear to anyone who spends a few minutes with a basic book on Egyptian hieroglyphics. Truth is not anti-Mormon and it's rather foolish to label it as such. Whether you choose to accept it is your own choice, but doesn't change it in the least.

Well Go read AOF 13. We believe all things. When Joseph spoke then the Saints believed. For example, think about those holy Kinderhook Plates. Thank goodness that Joseph weighed in on them as many lives have been blessed for what was recorded in the History of the Church about those plates :) if he had stayed silent then just think how sad it would be for truth seekers.

I do believe that "Honest TBM" is engaging in a wee bit of satire. ;-)

Tom, I stopped attending church at 17. Never felt a part of it and always found it silly. I still deal with it daily through my family, however, and you have been an instrumental person in helping me resolve some of the issues I've had. I still remember the day I listened to your entire interview with Dehlin. Thanks for everything you've done.

Kudos to you for getting out at 17, rather than waste most of your life on it.

Best wishes.

Shortly after returning from my mission in the early 1960's, I became acquainted with Jerald and Sandra Tanner who made me aware of the truth regarding Mormonism. I was on the fence for several years since I was enrolled at BYU and went on to receive a BS in business management. By the late 1960's I was pretty sure the church was false, but was not absolutely convinced "beyond a shadow of a doubt" as Mormons love to say.

The translation of the rediscovered papyri in 1968 was the final "nail in the coffin" for me. I simply ran out of justifications, weak explanations and illogical excuses for "Brother Joseph". The truth about the BofA forced me to accept reality - he clearly made it all up as he went along.

I fully severed all connection with the church in 1970 and have never looked back. Everything that has happened since has only convinced me further that Mormonism is nothing but a cult build on false promises and lies.

So, you have been keeping tabs on mormonism since 1970s. That's a long damn time. You must have some family still in it or it's just a hobby to have a laugh.

Kudos for getting out so early WITHOUT the internet.

All I’m saying…all I’m saying is that what got translated got translated into the word of God. The vehicle for that, I do not understand and don’t claim to know and know no Egyptian.

One could assume that except for the fact that Joseph also "translated" the writings and figures on the facsimiles. None of them were translated correctly. Whether or not one accepts the BoA as scripture (i.e. "the word of God") is immaterial. Clearly, when Joseph Smith had the one opportunity to prove that he was inspired by God, he blew it big time. Also, the claimed writings found in the BoA itself are nonfactual as pointed out the Tom Phillips in his OP.

Most thinking members, myself included, did not leave the church as a result of sinning as mistakenly assumed by TBMs. We left because the truth about the BoA facsimiles establish well beyond reasonable doubt that Joseph Smith was not inspired by God and clearly made it all up. Further, the BoM has also now been shown to not contain a true history of the Americans and the so-called Lamanites (ancestors of the Indians) never descended from Jews.

It's up to individual Mormons whether or not they continue to accept Mormonism's falsehoods, but any attempt to base those ill founded beliefs on other than personal feelings is fool-hearty, to say the least.

The Dodo, right?

There simply is no explanation that makes any sense at all for explaining why Joseph's interpretations of the three facsimiles are completely wrong according to modern-day understanding of Egyptology. Joseph was very specific in identifying the very Egyptian characters in the facsimiles that he gave translations for such as:

Facsimile#3, explanation of figure 2, Joseph writes: "King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head." What those characters above his head really say is: "The great Isis, mother of the god."

Again, Facsimile 3, explanation 4 reads: "Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand." Above the hand it actually says "Ma'at, Lady of the West."

Again, Facsimile 3, explanation 5 reads: "Shulem, one of the King's principal waiters, as represented by the characters above his hand." What those characters actually say is "Osiris Hor, the justified forever."

How can anyone say Joseph was right on these specific translations when he identifies the very Egyptian characters that he is translating? Egyptologists are in total agreement that they mean something completely different than what Joseph claimed.

The revelation theory doesn't explain Joseph's completely wrong explanations of the three facsimiles. God certainly would not have given Joseph incorrect revelation.

^ Exactly! Whether or not a so-called "longer scroll" actually existed and similar silly excuses to explain away Joseph's utter failure to correctly identify common Egyptian gods and goddesses on the three facsimiles completely miss the key issue. Without question, God did not aid him in explaining who and what the writings and drawings on the facsimiles represent leaving him to guess wrongly IN EVERY CASE!

Any unbiased thinking person finds it impossible to accept Joseph Smith as a prophet of God after comprehending the truth about the facsimiles as hundreds of thousands of former Mormons have done. The BoA is often given as the primary reason for leaving the church - and well it should be!

Well done Tom. Good to see you.

Thanks for all you do.

This is great commentary and discussion. Yes, the Book of Abraham is OBVIOUS and total bunk. But they are right, if you want to believe it's true scripture, the ONLY way you can do that is to pray, you know with a "sincere heart." Sincere heart meaning having convinced yourself pre-prayer that it has to be true and God would not tell you anything different. So after praying, if you don't feel some evil spirit, which you would not, then you feel ok with it and that's your sign.

Now if you pray with the attitude of "hey, I don't really know. I want to believe it, but you gotta admit, the facts are stacked against it. So you tell me, God, true or untrue? What will you feel? Basically nothing you didn't feel beforehand. So you are left back at square one of having to choose for yourself. "Do I choose facts or belief?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2016 03:25PM by NormaRae.

Great truths. I'll follow you.lol

This:

"
So what are these eternal truths it teaches?

That blacks are a cursed race
That God has chosen who shall be rulers on earth - divine right of kings
The son of Egyptus (Ham’s daughter) was the first Pharaoh of Egypt
The Sun receives (borrows) its light from Kolob (instead of generating its own light through nuclear fusion)
6 day creation of the Earth
Adam names every living creature
The origins and government of Egypt
Abraham learns about the sun, moon and stars (cosmology)
Egyptian Gods
Pre-existence
Foreordination
"

For a long time even after I was an exmo, I considered the "preexistence" to be untouchable. But now I think it's a weapon. The preexistence is a big loophole of blame. There's this DEFINITE meme in Mormonism that your station in the world is a direct result of your performance in the preexistence. This is insidious. It's an attitude that you are deserving of both a better or worse station in life depending on your merit in a pre-mortal test.

This is the beginning of the Mormon eternal caste system.

Some of it was practically already decided in the preexistence. 1/3 of all spirits, which we have to assume would be many billions, were already permanently banished (yet still have the contempt to haunt us incessantly and tirelessly...even Jesus tired, but not devils).

The church is now disavowing that blacks were not valiant in the 1st estate, but who takes their place as scapegoats? Maybe Ex-Mormons I guess.

Tom's analysis and all of the comments are excellent. One comment touched on a thought that came to my mind, but didn't really develop it.

If the way we can know the Book of Abraham is true is that it teaches true doctrine, suppose I produce a book that describes how the Antarctican penguins descended partly from Ham and partly from Shem (thus black and white), and how they devolved into bird-like humans as a curse for their disobedience to God, which is also the reason that the entire continent was made uninhabitable. And in that history can be found "eternal truths" such as the cursing of dark-skinned people for their lack of robust support of Jehovah in the premortal existence, the ancient Antarctican names of the sun, moon and stars, the creation story nearly as found in the Bible, the fact that the Southern Cross was created by God to testify of the manner of death of His Beloved Son, and of course prophecies of the restoration of the Gospel in the latter days through a guy named Joseph, son of Joseph, and descendant of Joseph of Egypt. Since the book I discovered and translated reveals "eternal truths," Latter-day Saints should accept it as a true history.