It wasn't any rabbit. It was a jack rabbit (correlation jack Mormon, maybe?) Jack rabbits are common in Idaho and parts of Utah, and resemble hares.

The rabbit wasn't living of course, it was dead. But it hadn't been skinned. Joseph was eating from its thigh by pulling the meat with the fur from the bone.

I looked up dream meanings. Not much here except for wabbits:

"To see a rabbit in your dream signifies luck, magical power, and success. You have a positive outlook on life. Alternatively, rabbits symbolize abundance, warmth, fertility and sexual activity. Perhaps your sex life needs to be kept in check. The dream can also be associated with Easter time and your own personal memories of Easter.

In particular, to see a white rabbit in your dream symbolizes faithfulness in love. The white rabbit also serves as a guide to steer you toward the right direction. To see a black rabbit in your dream refers to fear of intimacy.

If the rabbit is hopping in your dream, then it indicates fertility. You will be surrounded by children. Alternatively, the dream may be analogous to your lack of commitment and how you jump from one thing or another.

If you dream that the rabbit scratches or bites you, then it means that you need to pay more attention to your personal relationship or love life. If the bunny bites your toes, then it implies that this relationship is headed down the wrong direction." http://www.dreammoods.com/dreamdictionary/r.htm

Anyone got some fuzzerly advice as to dream interpretation?

I didn't actually see him eat it. I just watched as he attempted to pull the meat from the bones of the dead hare. Who would want to eat meat with the fur still on it?

That part was disgusting. That was about the time I awoke and chalked it up to a nighthare. ;o)

I think the dead rabbit is symbolic of your lost faith, beliefs and the affect Mormonism had played in differing aspects of your life. Has Mormonism adversely affected and/or destroyed your sexuality, relationships, etc.? Joseph Smith biting the thigh of the dead rabbit is akin to him biting your lost faith in the ass. How do you like them apples, Joseph? Face it, Mormonism is distasteful.

But that's just my personal take on it. And I'm no expert.

Very good analysis! Tankoo. :))

It wasn't even like he was having a regular dinner fare. He was feasting only on a jack rabbit.

It was very matter-of-fact for him, like something he's done before. Vewy stwange.

But, like Bugs Bunny, you can't keep a good wabbit down. :))

From the book of dream symbols I have found to be most [a relative word] accurate:

Fur: Protection...cover.

Rabbit: Cuddling and warmth...completion of a task with the speed of a jack rabbit.

From my other sources:

Rabbit: "...move forward despite our fears and use our intuition to get through difficult situations."

Thanks Tevai.

That brings together more aspects than just the rabbit.

Those are good signs! :))

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From the book of dream symbols I have found to be
> most accurate:
>
> Fur: Protection...cover.
>
> Rabbit: Cuddling and warmth...completion of a task
> with the speed of a jack rabbit.
>
> From my other sources:
>
> Rabbit: "...move forward despite our fears and use
> our intuition to get through difficult
> situations."


When I wrote this, I only had a brief time before I had to leave for chauffeuring and I inadvertently left out an important part:

Eat: Nourishment is needed, whether mental, emotional, physical, or spiritual. You may need the specific food in the dream, or what it represents. See: Food.

Food: Nourishment of physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual self. See what kind of food you are eating.

Knowing Joe he was more likely to be seen eating out his neighbors wife.

Yes, his appetites surpassed his sensibilities.

:/

Do you realize how many lovers triangles Joseph arbitrarily put himself in?

It's a wonder the vigilantes didn't get to him before they did!?!

I find this dream particularly fascinating because in my youth I had a regularly occurring nightmare wherein I would come across a giant rabbit in a cage with a pile of bones. By giant, I mean bigger than me. Suddenly it would be chasing me and the only way I escaped was to jump into a swimming pool and when completely submerged I would finally wake up shaking and traumatized.

If our subconscious uses symbolism to sort out our inner minds during sleep, then the interpretation I would give your dream is that your subconscious recognizes that Joseph Smith would devour mentally, spiritually, and physically anything that he felt would give him more power and more control. By eating the fur as well, it expresses the depth of his craving and willingness to throw convention aside in order to achieve his goals.

At this point Joseph Smith serves as the symbol and metaphor for the entire Mormon church.

And we may be likened to the apostates aka "jack Mormons," as a metaphor for the jack rabbit, I wonder?

Thanks for the feedback. :))

Some more dream meanings of what the rabbit may signify w/Joseph Smith in dream,

"Eating a Rabbit
The dream about eating a rabbit can suggest that you are taking advantage of someone close to you, while the person is unbeknownst of your actions.

Dead Bunny
A dead bunny is a reflection of a dead relationship or dying relationship that you may have. You should be more careful and tread careful." This kind of goes along with your dream analysis.

http://dream-meaning.net/animal/rabbit-and-bunny-dream-interpretation/

Hmmm... :/

No objective or reliable "meaning" can be assigned to dreams or things in them. Trying to come up with "meanings" for dreams is like astrology -- making things up with no basis in fact.

About all dreams can (but don't always) indicate is something you may have been thinking about the day or two before you had the dream. That's it. They're not magical, predictive, or "meaningful." They're your brain doing routine housekeeping.

I do agree. However,

I find it interesting that when we have something troubling us that we have no name for, like an oppressive church, the subconscious selects a symbol to represent the threat instead in our dreams as our subconscious rearranges the drawers of the mind? Seems to speak to a primitive form of communications. Are we accessing caveman communication? I guess now that there are millions of emojis to use to make your point, we're headed toward symbolic communication again and taking things full circle to pre-spoken language times.

Possibly.
The trouble is, the "symbols" chosen turn out to be completely arbitrary when lots and lots of dreams are looked at collectively. Then there's the issue of "remembering" dreams -- our recollection of them is usually spotty, and lots of "filling in" happens after we awake.
Many researchers think the "symbols" simply come from whatever adjacent memory cells were around -- that dreams are our brains sorting through our thoughts and events of the day, putting some in "long-term storage," and when that occurs adjacent cells get peripherally activated and incorporated into the stories our brains like to weave in a vain attempt to make sense of the mostly random memories getting activated as this happens.

I find dream research fascinating. It's hard to definitively nail much down. And the above isn't established with any certainty. It could even be they do have "meaning." Nobody's been able to show that yet, though. :)

So, apparently many of us have lots of rabbits stored in our "adjacent cells?" :)

Your tidbit of information makes me want to go read the research. Thanks. I find dreams fascinating specifically because of the wild recurring dreams I have had in my life.

M.Breckenridge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, apparently many of us have lots of rabbits
> stored in our "adjacent cells?" :)

Heh :) Nope.
If you look at supposed "dream interpretation" sites, you'll find that any animal can mean any thing. For example, rabbits often supposedly mean "luck." What other animals mean "luck?" Bats, bears, beetles, bulls, crickets, deer, elephants, frogs, goldfish, horses, lizards, pigs, spiders, and more. It's not that rabbits always show up when the "meaning" is supposed to be "luck," it's that making up a meaning of "luck" gets applied to any animals (and lots of other non-animal things) that people dream about.

It's a fitting of the wished-for meaning to whatever was in the dream. There's nothing objective or even "common" about any of it.

Oh Hie, must you take the joy and magic out of everything! Next you'll be telling us that Joe Smith's first vision isn't real......oh, wait..... :P

I think that most of the time, dreams are mostly us speaking to ourselves---getting "through" the assumptions and misconceptions of our normal-conscious states to things (important and frivolous, both) we might "know" or "intuit" in some way, but are not paying attention to, or do not understand.

I agree that there are no objective or reliable ("consistent") meanings to dreams, because dreams are extremely highly individualized to a given person's culture, relationships, personal history, aspirations, and language(s).

That being said, at least some dreams have real meaning to the person dreaming them, usually because there is something that needs to be paid attention to, and that person is either oblivious to, or is consciously suppressing, what they already, in daily life, "know" or "sense" full well.

EDITED TO ADD: I don't have any links to offer, but in the past I have read that, in some cases, people (in our general culture) have dreamed certain things that, behind the symbolism of the dream, proved to be medically important. What I remember in particular is that some people going to doctors and reporting certain dreams (like "being eaten alive from the inside out" by some kind of imaginary creature), have later correlated with cancer diagnoses, etc. Again: this is an example of the deeper knowledge contained in our cells and our bodies communicating with "us" (our more-conscious minds) of something important going on that we need to pay attention to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2016 03:38PM by Tevai.

This would be the first time I've had a dream involving Joseph Smith.

In all my formative years and young adulthood the only dreams I had about the church were church related. I'd have reoccurring dreams, sometimes nightmares of running through church like a maze, through the chapel where sacrament meetings were being held, into the foyer, and sometimes classrooms. Would occasionally sit down and wait for the service to begin...

Sometimes would pass through the gymnasium in time for the banquet - or across the stage that connected one side of the building to the other.

Then outside to the parking lot, street, sidewalk, grounds, etc. Maybe, if lucky, I'd get in the car to escape. Or would find myself turned around and going back in for something else screwball.

Then there were the plays and "events." Those were held at our local high school auditorium often, even some of the church sponsored ones. I used to dream about some of those too. But I haven't in a very long time.

This dream about Joseph I reckon has more to do with my being on RfM these days. Because prior to posting in exMormon forums I really didn't focus much on Mormonism as a topic, or church history. Maybe like turning off the computer in the hours before going to sleep, same goes for social sites ... that way the mind can clear itself more of the days events so not to preoccupy the dream state.

Though that may not be enough to do it. Yesterday I spoke with a woman who was coerced to sell her home by her realtor using undue influence that cost her more in the end, and she lost on the deal. That was early in the day I spoke to her, giving her advice.

Well, I had a dream last night about that. That dream involved my realtor swindling me out of my house and causing me to move before I was ready. It wasn't like I spoke to that woman right before I went to sleep. It had been hours earlier.

It's the things we repress in our conscious that enter our dream state, so we can work through those issues that perplex us in our waking hours while we're sleeping.

Dreams are supposedly more important to working through issues than in our waking moments, and RM sleep is critical not only for overall health but to able to dream. Our deepest sleep produces the most productive dreams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2016 04:52PM by Amyjo.

Dreaming about a rabbit is, of course, noteworthy in literature. Alice had a dream in which she chased the rabbit. You know the rest. Why I even have a copy of the book about twenty feet away this moment. I would think of JS as the queen in the book, especially relating with the killing of something so innocent as the rabbit. Even crazier than the Hatter. It explains why JS was against drinking tea. Amyjo, your dream definitely is about TSCC.

Thanks, rhgc. That's something I wouldn't have come up with on my own. Hmm ... the rabbit is innocent, and Joseph was just brazen enough to pick the flesh right off the bones - it may not have even been cooked. It looked like a fresh kill.

Joseph certainly lived on the lam, and from one escapade to the next.

Amyjo.....from all the input about your rabbit, the only thing I can suggest is that should pay just a little bit more for a better quality of wine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 01:38AM by tumwater.

Thanks, I'll drink to that! ;o)

First thing this old rancher thought of was "rabbit starvation"

In the early days of exploring the west, many men made the mistake of relying on rabbits as a primary source of food.

Rabbits are incredibly lean especially in winter. Without a proper meat to fat ratio, the human body suffers ill effects including damage to the kidneys and liver.

Reports exist of men eating rabbit until their bellys were extended but they never felt full.

Joseph and by extension the church is never satisfied no matter how much it takes/eats.

Joseph had a self serving revelation weekly if not daily.

Look at the greed of the church telling members to pay tithing even if it means the loss of their home and their children going hungry and without medical care.

Members are ground into dust and the church wants more.


.

It was a lean rabbit, now that you make mention of it. There was no flesh to speak of on its bones. It was mostly fur on the skin draped over the bone of the thigh, that Joseph was pulling away to consume. But no real meat! (Likewise, the church offers no real substance, and consumes its members... good analogy!)

Thanks for sharing that insight. Hmm, something else to chew on.

:o)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 05:59AM by Amyjo.

Similar to your analogy, Heartless, I wonder if it could also represent the church is in a famine, currently?

There aren't enough members driving it tithe wise, and while the GA may be going for the meat from the members, they're slowly starving ... as the church is losing or lost its momentum and its drive in the world. What's left of the once prosperous lay membership may not be enough to save it from itself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 06:11AM by Amyjo.

For myself I wouldn't say tithing is the problem.

Twice Joseph found himself discredited before the church.
it was there weren't 20 people who believed he was a prophet in Kirtland.

His world was crumbling in Nauvoo as well.

The church has no meat to its teachings. No compassion, no christ like behavior, bigotry and bias abound.

Members leaving in droves for better pastures elsewhere.

What does it say when so many prefer no religion at all after leaving thd church?

Boy, I've learned a lot from my dream.

Yeah, more great insights to go with some of the others.

Thanks for that. The substance to the church teachings were always lacking. It's just that some of those earliest members didn't realize what they were missing. I wonder why the heck not?

Were some of them running from their lives elsewhere, and just hitched their wagons to Joseph's star?

I also wonder had Joseph lived, might the church have disbanded before it moved westward? People may have left him, and some of them did, but instead his being martyred "for the cause" sealed the deal for those who stayed, that they were going for the long haul. They had nothing left to lose I suppose by remaining with that religious cult and moving, than staying where they were when they were driven from one place to the next.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2016 07:53AM by Amyjo.

I always wondered bow many European converts came for the free land and not because they really believed in the church.

Which was the better pitch by those missionaries sent to Europe:

1. JS had a vision and now has the Truth and the priesthood!!

2. You can have as much land as you want and we'll help you build a house and barn!!

I see only one reasonable explanation Amjoy... You are a prophet. And we must follow you or be destroyed by this monster!

Tee hee, Right this way... to the Temple of Doom!

It wasn't even a monster bunny. It was a helpless, lifeless little hare rabbit.

I wasn't afraid of it, or Joseph in my dream. It was more demonstrative of something that is amiss w/the TSCC.

The church cannot continue to sustain itself on its diminishing returns as its membership wanes and declines.

I wonder if the bare bones bunny reflects how the church is shrinking, and there's not going to be a revitalization if it continues the path it is on?

I realize that many of us would love for this to happen. Still, for me there are mixed emotions, because it's been like a fixture of my childhood, a part of my past, and my heritage. When its gone, it will be just another piece of history for the history books.

Will it make me happier when it's past tense? I truly don't know. I'm okay now without being a LDS. If it hadn't interfered with my family after I left it I'd feel better about the blokes. But that interference drove home the fact how much of a cult it is, and I didn't create that. I'm not responsible for the monster that it is. And if it finally dies a slow death of extinction because people are leaving and dying off. Well, I may not rejoice over that, but I'm not going to cry either. If you get my drift. ;o)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2016 04:11PM by Amyjo.

One thing for certain, Joey wouldn't be caught dead eating crow!

Did he ever admit to a single wrongdoing or mistake? (I think not.)

Humble pie was not in his vocabulary. :/

People around him were called to repentance. Never himself.

I learned this morning reading some history of one of my ggggrandfathers, who joined the church in 1833. By 1835 he was excommunicated for "attempting to seduce" one of the young maidens in the fledgling startup Mormon kingdom. He was able to be rebaptized later that same year. While old horny Joe was getting it on with whatever young starlet caught his fancy.

Later ggggrandpa would be "blessed" with plural wives, but that only came after his being punished for attempted seduction. Geez, he didn't even get to first base with his chickadee before getting busted by the sex police. That was Smith and Co for ya.

At least my great gggrandma didn't have to suffer for long. She died before all the plural dalliances began.

May she R.I.P.

I thought he preferred kitty

It was the Easter bunny....which helps explain Mormons' lackadaisical approach to this particular time of year and why you're more likely to hear Joseph Smith & tithing talks on Easter Sunday than anything else. The magic has literally been digested and excreted by an egotistical conman.

What about ole' Joe eating crow? Now that would have been lovely!

That's about right. Him eating crow would be when pigs fly! ;o)

Crows are considered vermin birds because they'll eat anything.

As for eating rabbit or hare, that is considered unbiblical.

"And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you." (Leviticus 11:6 KJV)

I wonder whether Joseph did eat rabbit meat from necessity, given the alternative may have been starvation owing to the many times he was driven from one place to the next along with his followers? But then as someone pointed out above, a diet based on rabbit meat can lead to starvation because of the lean to fat ratio content in the meat itself.

Tried finding something about his dietary beliefs and preferences other than the word of wisdom, and without digging through actual historical text there isn't much of anything online about what kind of meat he actually was given to eating.

As for Joe eating humble pie? I don't believe he ever did. There no reference of that recorded of his being penitent or sorry for any of the sufferings or hardships he brought upon his minions, whatever their losses were.

So can you tell us how you knew it was the one true prophet Horny Joe?

Did you think to shake his hand?

Could you tell if he was happy to see you?

Shummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you tell if he was happy to see you?

I am laughing SO out loud right now...

Well done, Shummy!!!

:D :D :D

I don't think Joseph saw me at all. I wasn't the subject of the dream.

But if you find that amusing Tevai, I find that pretty sick.

Seriously? A clever joke, by Shummy, and you take it out on Tevai, for appreciating Shummy's clever joke?

EOD, I expect it from you. Not from Tevai. And not from Shummy either. If Shummy wants to joke around that's one thing.

He isn't destructive with his, unlike yours.

The word here, amongst the cognoscenti, is that you could use a nap.


ETA: it was pointed out to me that taking a nice nap, you could dream again!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2016 03:38PM by elderolddog.

I don't need a nap. You need to go to sleep.

Shove off, old dog. ETA: play nice yourself.

If having a sense of humor means being the brunt of mean jokes then you can shove em right up your ass.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't need a nap. You need to go to sleep.
>
> Shove off, old dog. ETA: play nice yourself.
>
> If having a sense of humor means being the brunt
> of mean jokes then you can shove em right up your
> ass.


I guess she didn't like the nap suggestion.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EOD, I expect it from you. Not from Tevai. And not
> from Shummy either. If Shummy wants to joke around
> that's one thing.
>
> He isn't destructive with his, unlike yours.

Amyjo, I did NOT mean---in ANY way---to make fun of you!

"Old Hollywood" (from the earliest silents of the 1890s or so, through the 1950s) is basically my "home," and this allusion to Mae West was (for me) irresistible.

I thought of it as artful hommage which EXPANDS---rather than ridicules---the possible texture of meanings in your dream.

(If the subject of your dream had been, for example, one of the super-sexphobic, TSCC luminaries---like the guy who said he had never seen his wife of many decades naked---THAT might have been questionable...but the subject of your dream was JOSEPH SMITH, and Mae West's famous quote: "Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" seemed to ME to affirm your dream, and also to add colorful texture to possible interpretations of it.)

I am sorry if I misspoke---but in the context of your dream, I DID think Shummy's joke was on-the-LDS-nose funny (I burst out laughing when I read it)...as well as potentially illuminating.



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2016 06:21PM by Tevai.

Thanks for explaining your take. I figured you'd mean no harm but I'm not as familiar with Hollywood classics as you are or a line from an old Mae West film, if indeed that was what Shums was referring to.

It's storming here. My son's cat is dying. And I just got back from a tear jerker of a movie, "The light between oceans" with Michael Fassbender, Alicia Vikander, and Rachel Weisz.

Went to my first Daughters of the American Revolution meeting this afternoon following shul. It was a packed house! The women were really nice, and it is a really service oriented group of ladies. And that was followed by a severe headache from what I don't know. Maybe my son calling me from Japan to say my daughter contacted him asking for my help, because she needs money for some unknown medical condition. And well, that leaves me with more questions than answers since we don't know where or how she's doing. He called me while he was drunk, which he normally wouldn't do. But felt it was too important to wait until he was sober.

So I have a sick daughter somewhere unbeknownst in the world. And a drunk son with a dying cat - well the only good thing I've learned this day was my Revolutionary War ancestor also fought in the War of 1812. He had a land claim from the Rev. War, and a pension from the other one. The lady who's preparing my paperwork showed me all she's done since I submitted my death certificates. I had NO idea there is so much genealogy that goes into these memberships. Everything must be proven, but once it is, then I can finally claim my membership. No pension in it for me. Us daughters just appreciate the historical value it seems and the service orientation. Ater meeting with them today for the first time I finally got to see that they're just ordinary people and a lot like myself with a love of country and their patriots. The lady helping me says all my paperwork is in order, so it just needs to go to Washington DC. Hurrah for that.

Btw, today is Patriots Day, in case anyone missed it. ;o)

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My son's cat is dying.

I'm sorry your son's cat is dying. It always hurts to lose a companion animal you love.


> And that was followed by a severe headache
> from what I don't know.

I hope your headache is better. When I get a bad headache, I usually drink Ginger Aid tea (from Whole Foods, etc.), and only if the ginger tea doesn't work do I then go to Advil or whatever.


> Maybe my son calling me
> from Japan to say my daughter contacted him asking
> for my help, because she needs money for some
> unknown medical condition.

If this is the daughter who is an Israeli resident, then she should have access to medical help---it is my understanding that medical insurance is basically automatic for Israeli residents, and most especially for olim [immigrants to Israel], as I understand your daughter is.

When I arrived in Israel (it was Jewish-sponsored tour for teachers in American Hebrew schools), as our tour leader checked us in, he handed each of us valid and active medical insurance cards made out to us in our passport names, and he said (in response to our surprise) that medical insurance was automatic, once we set foot on Israeli soil. In effect, we were being treated as if we were [temporary] olim.


> He called me while
> he was drunk, which he normally wouldn't do. But
> felt it was too important to wait until he was
> sober.

It is the weekend in Japan, too, and males getting drunk is---as I understand---a big part of Japanese culture. (Someone I know once worked for a Japanese bank in San Francisco.)

I hope tomorrow is a better day for you, Amyjo. Sounds like you are being stressed to the max.

:( :( :(

I was a third person in the dream to the "event."

It's like when you're with someone in their company, and you know you're in their presence. I didn't see his face, but I knew it was Joey Smith. He was wearing a brown plaid shirt, as I watched him reaching for the dead hare. The hare was the same as any jack rabbit I've seen many times growing up in Idaho in the wilds.

He tried picking the meat from the carcass of the unskinned animal. I couldn't tell if the meat was cooked or raw. I could see it was a very lean rabbit. There was really hardly any meat to pick off its bones.

It was the only time I've ever dreamt of Joseph Smith in all my life! Strange to dream that now, of him, doing that in my company.

Although I've gotten some very good feedback from others who have shared some insights into what it could represent. So it was worth taking a crack at it here on RfM. :o)

My house-rabbit, who has never been Mormon, strongly disapproves of both your dream and Joseph Smith and assures both you (and I and Joseph Smith, for that matter) that he would've kicked the living sh*te out of Joseph Smith. *cue rabbit looking disapproving and fierce*

notnevernomo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My house-rabbit, who has never been Mormon,
> strongly disapproves of both your dream and Joseph
> Smith and assures both you (and I and Joseph
> Smith, for that matter) that he would've kicked
> the living sh*te out of Joseph Smith. *cue rabbit
> looking disapproving and fierce*

I like your house-rabbit!!

:)

In your dream, Joseph Smith was having "carnal intercourse" with one of his polygamous wives. He never actually had sex with this little girl, she just passed him a plate of rabbit meat at the dinner table.