I really don't get it.

Every time I bring up sincere questions about the Church that are tearing me apart, I'm dismissed as being prideful, selfish, and unfeeling (?) even though that isn't even my intention. The latest conversation went something like this:

ME: "I'm a spiritual person, but I don't believe in the institution. It doesn't make me happy and I think it's bogged down by bureaucracy to the point where spirituality has been sucked out of the meetings."

PERSON: "Well, that's because you aren't praying. You're too lazy and prideful to turn to the Lord for help and you're so busy wrapped up in your own life and you're selfish and you basically suck. Simple as that."

The worst part of this dialogue was that when I said that my spiritual path was elsewhere, this person said that the Spirit wasn't witnessing to them that what I said was true. And....I really couldn't argue with that, so I just ended up looking like an idiot. I had to let it go...fighting over this nonsense wasn't worth it.

But, I'm so confused. There are problems with the Church that kept me up at night feeling suicidal and when I finally had a moment of enlightenment and realized that the Church as an organization wasn't right for me in terms of spirituality, I was dismissed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 06:07PM by xe.

Hey xe, the question you might ask your accuser is, " Since when has a sincere search for truth been prideful, selfish, unfeeling or ( as my TBM brother said to me ) in Satan's territory ? You know that you are sincere and if there is a God, He knows it too. Next time someone gives you a hard time, I suggest you ask the above question. You know you are sincere so relax - you're covered on all sides.

Hi XE, you're not being prideful; you're being honest. I'm a believer, but I have doubts about my faith, God, etc. here's a response from a friend of mine (an ordained Episcopal priest) when I questioned if I believed in God: "Boner, it's probably healthy. Look at the world, it's hard to believe in a benevolent supreme being, isn't it. Define your core values and look at your faith to see how they work together."

My advice to you is the same--determine your core values and follow the spiritual path or journey that you're most comfortable with. Some, here, find a path through humanism, science, reasoning, etc. I try my best to respect all who are on their journeys, even if those journeys are different from mine.

Mormonism can have no tolerance for differing paths. From its inception, Joseph Smith claimed that all other faith/spiritual systems were wrong. It's very easy for TBMs to dismiss honesty as not being faithful or claiming questioners must have "been offended." The Boner.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 09:11PM by BYU Boner.

You have no obligation to explain to others why they're wrong. Being wrong is their problem.

Because Mormons regard anyone - members (especially) or non-members who disgree with the official Church line in even the smallest respect as being automatically in the wrong. End of.

One of the lines I heard said so often to anyone questioning or disagreeing was "you're not being humble and teachable>

By which, of course, they really mean "you're not being pliable, mouldable and easy to manipulate".

"you're not being humble and teachable" - ie. SHUT UP.

It took me a long time to figure out that I simply can't converse with zealous Mormons, even if they're related to me. It's like they have a dialect that was designed to mislead. I can speak some Jack Mormon, but the temple tongue is beyond my grasp.

Took me a while too, Don. These days, when TBM's ask "What was it that bugged you so much that you left the church?" I say something like "The answer to that question changed my life. If you REALLY want to know, and have a serious conversation about it, I'll do it but it isn't something to be idly mentioned right now." Then they can decide whether they really want to know.

That's a very measured response. I like it, sam.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2016 10:03PM by donbagley.

From the outside looking in, I think they'll find something wrong with anything that threatens the status quo.

You are trying to make sense out of non-sense.

In no way is it prideful, selfish, or unfeeling to recognize what's real and what's not. However, I would turn that around and say it was wrong for him to put you down over your differences.

Pride is essentially competitive in nature. We pit our will against God’s. When we direct our pride toward God, it is in the spirit of “my will and not thine be done.” As Paul said, they “seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ’s.” (Philip. 2:21.)

Our will in competition to God’s will allows desires, appetites, and passions to go unbridled. (See Alma 38:12; 3 Ne. 12:30.)

The proud cannot accept the authority of God giving direction to their lives. (See Hel. 12:6.) They pit their perceptions of truth against God’s great knowledge, their abilities versus God’s priesthood power, their accomplishments against His mighty works.

This talk by Ezra Taft Benson entitled "Beware of Pride" always made me feel like questioning the gospel was my problem and not a problem with the Church. The quotes above are just the tip of the iceberg. You are obviously a prideful sinner if you dare think there is a man behind the curtain.

The church isn't right for you, so why seek acceptance from them? It doesn't really matter what they think, your path is your own.
I would say its like expecting Coke to be happy you prefer Pepsi.

"The worst part of this dialogue was that when I said that my spiritual path was elsewhere, this person said that the Spirit wasn't witnessing to them that what I said was true. And....I really couldn't argue with that, so I just ended up looking like an idiot. I had to let it go...fighting over this nonsense wasn't worth it."



This person is an idiot to claim to know what is spiritually true for you. The only way to respond to such a person is to recommend medication. ("Did you skip your meds today?")

You are experiencing overt (verbal) emotional abuse in order to manipulate you back into compliance with behaviors that corrupt leaders need (a payer, a giver to them). The entire flock is conditioned to keep each other "in line." If you question the leadership (church doctrine), that's breaking a mental "rule," and others will "discipline" you. That's how cults and shunning work.

You can test your own "spirit" for the "truth" of your sense of morality. How do you feel when you give time or money to the church? Compare that to giving time or money to a homeless shelter or other charity (you have to actually do it to know).

For me, giving time or money to the church feels like a waste. Like setting a stack of hard-earned cash on fire. Delivering meals to the sick and needy - I feel so tired in such a good way, and I feel like a part of something bigger, more important than myself.

Why on earth would any God want me to clean the toilets of the rich for free, when I can be showing love to my fellow man by helping those who most need the "free" help?

That is not "pride." That is intelligence and truth. Be true to yourself.

Why? Because, generally, LDS folks have been taught that there are only true responses/answers to anyone questioning of having problems.
It helps to remember that the beliefs are imaginary, as well as their claims, for the most part, as well as their heavens.
These ideas only exist in their imaginary minds.

That's a mean accusation and you deserve better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2016 06:49AM by Cheryl.

It's called control. Mormons are winners!

I used to think the Church was perfect even if the members suck. No, actually they both suck.

PERSON was being extremely defensive. That's all they could be. What are they going to do, admit the truth of the whole sordid affair?

You have a thirst for truth and they don't. It's that simple.