My sister graduated last week. She was getting a masters degree. I noticed that the cap and gowns that the candidates were wearing were a little more elaborate than your typical undergraduate cap and gown. Especially those getting doctorate degrees.

At any rate, me and my brother where commenting on this. We were wondering what the different colors, hoods, sashes, etc symbolized. At this point, my Dad got a little annoyed. He said we shouldn't pay too much attention to all of this because they were, "the robes of an apostate priesthood".

I was a little shocked by this. I'm curious about my Dad's reaction. But I really wasn't in the mood to start a religious discussion with him. So, I shut up and let it slide.

I was raised in a VERY tbm family. I had never heard anything about the cap and gown being evil growing up. Or, being part of an apostate priesthood. Does anybody here know what my dad was talking about? This seems very out there, even for Mormons...

That really is crazy! If I remember correctly, the colours represent what field of study the graduates/professors are in i.e. biology, English, music...that sort of thing.

Never heard of it being "apostate priesthood" growing up TBM. Then again, not much suprises me what individual Mo's come up with on their own.

however maybe dad was just mad because a girl was getting a master's.

I'm sure you can wiki it.

congrats to your sis.

who were, in the west, the original college students.

But hey, they wear them at BYZoo, does pop's know that?

and even with Freemasonry.
The different levels, the different colors for different trades/fields, etc.
Not like Catholicism really.
Pink is for music, BTW.

I think he was referring to a Nibley talk or prayer. He said something like that in a prayer or speech once at a BYU graduation.

Hugh Nibley gave a commencement speech once where he made that comment but it was more of a joke. It has been a while so I do not recall totally what his point was. The father had probably read the article.

Yes, I've heard members of the church call them "The robes of the unholy priesthood".

The different colors usually represent different degrees. If it's a large university, they're often divided by college or school within the uni (so liberal arts would have one, engineering another, communication another, etc) - the cowls in upper degrees and the tassels usually coordinate. Cords draped over the neck often symbolize different levels of honors.

They vary from university to university, I believe.

I think it all went back to Nibley's commencement speech

( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSjE2Ks38uE )

Only a group of sheeple listening to a beloved "leader" would believe this. But it stuck. All kinds of LDS people believe it now because Nibley said so.

What he probably was referring to was how clerical robes were worn at British universities by professors and students, and morphed into our cap and gown. Anyway, they are not "robes of a false priesthood." The man was a known fruit cake.

i.e. "As for the rest, we don't question things at the BYU."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2011 11:07AM by robertb.

They look pompous & stupid. But if it makes kids day better, let them wear it.

They also can tell you what university you have attended...as you advanced further they are more elaborate....

stormy

I love watching faculty members at graduations because they always wear the robe of the institution that conferred their doctorate. There are may fascinating variations.

The University?? Are Mormons saying that Universities are now relgious institutions in competition with their religion? What about YBU graduations? Do they ban the dreaded cap and gown with associated colors of colleges from their graduations? I very much doubt it.

Sounds to me like typical Mormon paranoia and fear mongering. Although I can;t say I would have done differnetly than you, helios, I think this is nonsense that should probably be confronted to be disspelled.

The gowns are different according to the level of degree the graduate is receiving.

The gown for a doctorate has velvet stripes on the sleeves and down the front. The gown for a masters has funny, elongated sleeves. The bachelors is plain.

The hood colors represent the discipline studied and the conferring university.

Of course, they represent intellectualism which is an enemy of Mormonism

Most TBMs view reason and education as the work of satan - and even satan has the priesthood (at least according to the temple movie).

Education can only lead to the strengthening and use of the intellect - this is a very bad thing for the TSCC and the TBM lemmings.

That's especially true when women get more than a Mrs Degree, as a woman who is educated isn't likely to have a man supporting her and is considered a major threat.

That "robes of an unholy priesthood" did indeed come from remarks Nibley made in a graduation speech. While he didn't say this in his speech, he felt the caps and gowns idea was stolen from the God's Original Temple Ceremony, rather than the other way around.

Of course, if you look at 15th century art, hats that look sort of like tams, and like the PhD caps now (which usually are not the lower degree mortar-board things) were the fashion, as were robes for more formal attire. Universities froze their fashion sense at about the time of the invention of the printing press. It's got nothing to do with priesthood, except that it is a form of initiation rite, which the endowment also is.

The cap and gown as fake priesthood is a pretty arcane bit of Mormon folk-theology, so I assume anyone who knows that is Mormon to the bone.

Or was, in the case of some of us here! :)

AS with all TBM claims, ask them to back it up with any scripture, prophetic, or apostolic pronouncement. If they offer none, then the ideas are just 'urban legends' if you will. Mere speculation.

"your dad not only drank the koolaid. He chewed and swallowed the cup"

Brother of Jerry, I LOLed when I read this. Yeah, that's my Dad.

LOL he got that from Nibley who remarked that Satan shows up wearing the black silk robes of professors and doctors, as also depicted in the temple.

I was chatting with my brother today. Apparently, he was really curious about this too and emailed my Dad about it. My Dad referred him to this blog post:

http://www.templestudy.com/2008/01/24/the-black-robes-of-a-false-priesthood/

You can read it if you really want. But I'll summarize things. So yes, my Dad's ideas can be traced back to Nibley. According to Nibley, the graduation ceremony is a perversion of the old temple ceremony. Here is a quote from the blog post where Nibley is talking about the graduation robes:

"they are worldly, opulent, apostate symbols, outwardly proclaiming stations, attainments, or degrees which neither rightly profess the inward intelligence of their wearers nor their attainment of any true light or skill of merit."

So I guess Nibley doesn't think much of trying to better yourself through hard work and academic research. But hey, if you learn the right secret handshakes you're golden!!! Wow, what a crock full of shit.

Just curious. Do they wear the graduation robes or something else?

My understanding is that universities grew out of religious schools, so the various robes, caps, etc. are derivative of clerical clothing.

And yeah, my parents always used to quote that Nibley line, but my mom always did it sarcastically.