My job brought me to Utah many years ago. As a non-Mormon, I share a few experiences that I believe are unique to this State.

First, some standard questions asked of me more than once.

What Ward do you go to?

What religion are you?

Are you LDS?---One time—I struck up a casual conversation with a nice elderly couple in a hospital waiting room and was asked this question. When I replied no, she said “that’s OK, you seem like a nice man anyway”.

Have had my morning cup of coffee referred to as “sin” water.

Invited to an LDS Church or Church event. More than once.

I was forced into becoming aggressively rude, more than once, because the word “No” means something entirely different to Mormons who feel the need to share the “Truth”.

A coworker showed vacation pictures and referred to them as “the Lamanite village”. It was some tourist stop that had replica Indian Teepees and artifacts conveniently located next to a gift shop.

Was only on the Job for two months. Went to the office Christmas “Party” luncheon. Ordered a beer with my dinner. My God! The looks I got. You would have thought I killed the Lindberg baby. Moral of this story---To Mormons, Christmas party means sitting at a long table and talk in subdued voices about your neighbor’s kids, while drinking your Ice Water. Alcohol in any form is NOT allowed.

Sponsored my only daughter’s wedding who married a Boston boy. A beautiful civil ceremony with all in attendance, special places of honor for both sets of parents, and I got to walk her down the aisle. Then, immediately after, in the same building, a big shindig (and very expensive), dancing, music, catered food, and yes there was alcohol, with raised glasses and toasts presented. Friends and family from many States attended. Hundreds of invites and lots of people. A Great Time for all!

Hardly any Mormons accepted the invite. Only two Mormon families from my neighborhood attended, and not one Mormon from my workplace.

Moral of this story—Mormons have no social life outside of Mormon Culture. The word Wedding means a Saturday morning Temple ceremony while non-worthy family members get to stand outside and awkwardly look at the pretty flower beds. The word certainly does not mean a social gathering of fun and celebration and sharing a new beginning with friends and family.

It was about this time I finally realized there is this “Us vs Them” mentality that permeates Mormon culture.

My wife and I realized after 25 years of living in Utah our close friends are non LDS or Ex LDS. We associate with a few of the more “Liberal” or “Jack” Mormons who happen to be our neighbors. Moral of this story—In Mormon culture “friend” really means a ward member or potential convert. Once it is clear you no longer fit that definition, your Mormon “friends” will drop you like a hot potato. Using an old cliché, I really can’t say that some of my best friends are Mormons.


LDS folks come in many stripes and of course are not all the same, but the “good” ones--hardcore and Utah born and raised-- well they tend to be judgmental, non-inclusive, socially stunted, emotionally immature, and have a hard time having fun. And they don’t even know it.

Just some thoughts.

I never lived in Utah, but I've experienced the awkwardness of adult Mormons in typical adult situations as well.

I went to my wife's Christmas party (California) where a bottle of wine was given out as a raffle ticket prize. Naturally, the only Mormon couple in attendance won and it was extremely awkward to watch her handle the bottle of wine. It was like a 12 year old trying to sneak away with a bottle of daddy's liquor. The staunch TBM's don't seem to mature past age 15 or so.

When my Utah cousins used to visit us in Colorado when we were kids, it was very awkward watching them try to interact. The Utah culture is significantly different from what we would call "normal".

Me and the new wife went on a cruise about 2 years into our marriage. We both were BIC and had been active, righteous members our whole lives. I never drank alcohol or had any desire to.

On the cruise, every evening we were seated at the same table with the same people. Over the next 6 evenings we really bonded and became close to the other couples. It was a wonderful part of the cruise to hear each others stories from each day's adventures.

On the last evening, one of the couples popped for some champagne and a toast. We all held our glasses up for cheers. I wasn't about to embarrass myself and say anything about mormonism and the WOW. I took a gulp of the champagne and set my glass down.

The look on my wife's face was sinister. You would have thought I had just committed adultery or murder. She was so disappointed in me and could not believe what i had just done. It seems so trivial to me, it did then and always has.

We have since divorced and I am blown away at how militant some people in the church are against benign situations like this. Getting worked up over nothing. There are a lot of people, just like that in the church, that judge every situation, no matter how insignificant or minor.

Did she ever take Nyquil?

Of course, but that is medicine so its ok

We had a client give each of us a bottle of whiskey for Christmas, obviously not in Utah. My Mormon coworker gave me his bottle. Good Mormon friend!

My family is all nevermos but my parents don't drink (anymore) - and good for them! So when I was living with them during a couple of stretches as an adult I was the recipient of a few bottles of wine that had been given as gifts to them. Yay! Free wine!

You'd think if people who have actual documented alcohol problems could handle being given some by saying, "Hey, you want this?" and handing it over then the Mormons could do the same thing with somebody they know, should they end up on the receiving end. No point in wasting the stuff after all. No freakouts, just hey, I don't drink this, would you like it?

Or is that too normal?

Well then they'd be allowing - even supporting - someone else drinking it.

No chance to show off righteousness.

The funny thing is, that if they were "cool" about it and said, "Hey, thanks anyway, but I don't drink" they would probably garner some respect.

spot on....all of it

Utah Mormon culture makes me gag

I never been to Utah, but I have two roommates that describe themselves as "Hardcore Utah Mormons." Living with them for the past six years has been quite the experience.
To say the least.

On a Friday night, one of my roommates and I decided to have a movie night. I picked the move, "Sweet Home Alabama" with Reese Witherspoon. During the scenes where the character "Melanie" was drunk, or lying to an interviewer, she was obviously uncomfortable. I asked her if she was okay, she said, "It's the lying" or "It's the drunken scenes."
I thought to myself, "It's just a movie.Relax!"

I can't even watch "Dancing with the Stars" without my roommates complaining about how they don't like the outfits that the female dancers wear (because they're not modest/to their standards).

You're right about what the definition of "friend" is in Mormonville. I feel like most of my "friendships" in TSCC were superficial. I'm definitely trying to work on my social skills now that I am transitioning away from TSCC.
Unfortunately, I'm not sure if I know how to have a friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2016 04:34PM by severedpuppetstrings.

To use a cliche, to HAVE a friend you must BE a friend.

If you have trouble figuring out what that means or what it looks like in action, do some research.

Read up on friendship. Read books and articles. Read about famous friendships. Think about how these people treat each other and interact.

Spend time with nevermo groups. Take note of their interactions and expectations. Ask them what friendship means to them.

Use what you've learned in situations. Evaluate it. Practice it.

It might well work!

I'm working on it. You'd think that it would be common sense when it comes to relationships and such.

I was a part of a writing group for a while before it dissolved. Once I move to the DC area, I plan on joining some nevermo groups, or writing/poetry groups and see what happens.

Unfortunately I live in a town where nothing happens, plus I cannot drive because I'm disabled. So once I move, I hope things will change.

Ask them if they are ok watching BYU cheerleaders, gymnasts, volleyball players or soccer players. None of those outfits are "For Strength of Youth" approved. #hypocritical

Your situation mirrors mine, especially this;

"I was forced into becoming aggressively rude, more than once, because the word “No” means something entirely different to Mormons who feel the need to share the “Truth”.

I moved into a 12 year old,established mormon neighborhood (bought the bishop's house). All the neighbors were finding excuses to stop by. At first it was nice, but most "visits" ended with invitations to church. A few months after we moved here, a neighbor down the street invited up to a BBQ. Kind of a strange request, "bring your own meat to grill-sides & drinks provided". Not like any BBQ I attended in Texas. We showed up with ribs, chicken breasts and a 12 pack. We walked in the backyard with neighbors mingling and 2 sets of missionaries. They spotted the 12 pack & their eyes popped wide. The host came over, said hi & quietly informed us that kids were in attendance & no alcohol was welcome & asked if I would take it home. (BBQ without beer? Never seen one before). My wife & I walked home with the beer (and our meats), fired up the grill & had a great meal.
Really set the tone for future visits. Once they figured out (after numerous strong "No"s) we had no interest in joining their church, their fake friendliness stopped. Now, most barely acknowledge our existence, which is fine by us. Mormons could fuck up a wet dream.

I lived in happy valley for over 20 years, non Mormon. I was the only, unmarried non Mormon, in many blocks. Most weekends I had friends come over and we bar-b-q'ed, smoked ribs, drank beer. Had a good time. On Sundays the Mormons would stand in the street and watch us. I invited them to join us several times. They never would. Strange. Sold out and moved out of Utah about 5 years ago. Live in a small town , no Mormons.

The sad thing about utah, because it's an otherwise beautiful fun state, is that you are forced into declaring or revealing your regards for Mormonism in some way. You can't just stay private about it for long.

And that's not just with Mormons, it's with exmormons and nonmormons in Utah too.

There's a self sorting mechanism. You are tagged. You can fake it or bluff but not indefinitely. And sometimes the challenge is unexpected.

I wish you could be in Utah and not be pressured about Mormonism either way.

A new pitch missionaries can use:

"Are you socially inept? Then we have a church for you."

That's hilarious! Yes, so true. Would be a very honest approach, too.

One time I went to a neighbor's baby shower. It was more of a rowdy, adult men and women celebration, with liberal drink for all except the expectant mother. The Mormon neighbors stopped by with their toddler child. I made sure to have a huge glass of wine in front of them. They didn't stay too long. Must not have been the kind of baby shower they were expecting. Oh well, they were also very uptight, but at least they made an effort.

Mormons have no social life outside of Mormon Culture.

From my 80 yrs of association with this organization I can affirm this.
It is a totally regressive exclusionary society.

I however have made it a lifelong project to acquire friends and contacts outside the environment.

My good

I've lived in Utah on and off for 25 years. Very nearly all my social contacts are ex or neverMo. Fortunately, I have lived in neighborhoods that have plenty of those. :)

My nevermo bro lived in SLC for 2 years as the boss of some regional hq of a big global company. As he tells the story, on the day the new boss arrived from Australia (him) he was greeted at the airport and taken directly to the office.
He was then offered beer..
"Would you like a beer?"

"Err, no thanks" (it was 9am Utah time, after long flight)

"We have beer"
"Australians like beer"
"We know where to get beer"

"Ummm really, no thanks"

He laughed about it, they continually offered him beer in a childlike offering to demonstrate their normalness.

He said they were lovely people, but socially weird.

"We have beer"
"Australians like beer"
"We know where to get beer"


Sounds about right. Utah mormons have no clue about alcohol. They think that anyone that drinks socially is an alcoholic. So, if you drink, you must have no control. 9am? Sure. Drinking at work? Sure. Drink more than two drinks-you must be blind drunk.

Plus, at 9am the only place to "get beer" is the grocery or convenience store. Watered down 3.2 beer. An Australian would've thought it was crappy beer. Clueless morons.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Sounds about right. Utah mormons have no clue
> about alcohol. They think that anyone that drinks
> socially is an alcoholic. So, if you drink, you
> must have no control.

Not only Utah Mormons...I have a TBM friend who, although born in Utah, as lived in California since age five or so (she's now in her mid-30s). We are in a local mothers' club together, and perhaps two or three times a year we hold our get-togethers in a restaurant. (Most times they are in a church hall or at someone's home.) Since the get-togethers are always in the evening--i.e. we are ordering dinner--I will usually order one glass of wine or one beer. Yes, ONE alcoholic drink, with a full meal. I'm clearly a raging alcoholic, no?

Every. Single. Time...TBM friend pipes up with a loud observation like "NeverMo in CA just can't keep away from the booze" or "Wine? That figures!" I have always just rolled my eyes and laughed it off, but I am seriously thinking next time about saying something like "Your special underwear is showing," even though almost no one else in the group would have a clue what I meant and would probably find it odd!

It was especially bad a couple of years ago when, during a restaurant meeting, another member of our club mentioned that she enjoyed the beer she had ordered, a brand she hadn't tried before. TBM pal started to go off on how "Well, I don't respect anyone who drinks alcohol!" (Not anyone who drinks alcohol to excess but "anyone who drinks alcohol.")

The rudeness of her tirade was compounded by the fact that only one or two seats away from us sat a club member who had just made a very generous donation of a luncheon party for several people at a local winery--something which had cost her several hundred dollars but which she had donated to our club so that we could raffle it off to raise much-needed funds. And yes, our TBM pal was well aware of this woman's donation and how much it would benefit our club. Thankfully it was loud enough in the restaurant that this generous woman couldn't hear the TBM--though in a way, I wish she had, as she is quite outspoken and probably would have given Ms. TBM quite an earful in response.

"I don't respect anyone that drinks alcohol"

Sanctimonious bitch. Does that include you?

Ask her if she respects Joseph Smith. Even though he was an adulterer and married 14 year old girls. Then ask her if she knew that Smith drank alcohol and was drunk when he was shot. Then remind her that Brigham Young drank & owned bars & distilleries. Ask her if she respects him. Then, find a new friend.

I'm cringing as I type. What is wrong with that woman?

One answer to the not-respect-people:

"Well, then you should start working on it."

I've never lived in Utah, but I experienced the culture shock when visiting St George once after a Grand Canyon trip. One thing about Mormon wedding receptions is that they don't serve a full meal, mostly just finger foods, punch, and cake served at the last minute. If you ever get invited to such a reception, you should eat before going.

I agree that they have no social structure outside of Mormonism, as they tend to associate with their own kind, even if it means they inadvertently shun non-Mormon family members.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2016 08:17PM by adoylelb.

"Mormons have no social life outside of Mormon Culture."

Tell me about it! I purchased my own home as a single woman and was automatically labeled unchaste because I must be having males sleeping over, since no other female lived with me. My boss even asked me if I had a man in my house if he saw a car parked on the street by my house!!!!

So I decided to have a house warming party with great refreshments and invitations requiring RSVP. Everyone gave me their RSVP saying they were coming and nearly nobody showed! The next day they gave excuses that all were involved in last minute church obligations they could not turn down. One neighbor and one work friend showed-up and all that food was just wasted.

And I got the "Them vs. Us" thing in Logan, UT. It was very apparent that you had to name your allegiance before they would be your friend. I was lucky because I never wore my religion on my sleeve so Mormons accepted me as Mormon and the Non-Mormons seldom knew my religion, never asked, and treated me as one of their own, which I greatly appreciated and respected. That was the most bizarre cultural aspect of Utah for me.

I remember being cautioned as a TBM not to associate with those outside the religion. Also, with all the focus on the prohibition of alcohol (not being kind and accepting of people), it made me afraid to be around alcohol and those with substandard standards.

I find your descriptions of nevermo life in Utah to be very accurate. We moved here in 1993 for my then-husband's job. I had very similar experiences to yours. I admire you for your ability to 'endure' life in Utah for 25 years and then I realize that it has been nearly that long for me.

I moved back 'home' to Colorado in 2009 when my husband and I separated and I remember, when crossing the state line into Colorado, I was gleeful, and relieved that I was out of
Utah and planned to never return, except to visit. Alas, as they say, "never say never", for in 2012 I suffered a stroke which left me with left-sided paralysis. Thirty days later, upon my release from the rehab hospital, my daughter moved me back here so I find myself in Utah once again, and in an Assisted Living facility, surrounded by (mostly) elderly, TBMs.

What you said here sums it up perfectly" "LDS folks come in many stripes and of course are not all the same, but the “good” ones--hardcore and Utah born and raised-- well they tend to be judgmental, non-inclusive, socially stunted, emotionally immature, and have a hard time having fun. And they don’t even know it." Exactly!

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2016 05:12AM by dejavue.

"Shirley, you jest!"
--LaVerne

"Don't call me Shirley." -- Frank Drebin

I lived in Utah for 4 years during college at UVU. Doing anything new, like opening a checking account, or meeting new people in school, or out and about as a couple, it was always, "what ward are you in?" Just the automatic assumption that we were Mormon.

I have also definitely seen confirmed alcoholics who now avoid alcohol handle being offered and around alcohol MUCH BETTER than the Mormons I know.

Lastly, my TBM inlaws are THE WORST at weddings or any kind of social event that involves alcohol. They just get uncomfortable, and leave early and are no fun.

agreed!

I'm a nevermo who barely drinks and coworkers will mention things that make it clear they think I go out and get wasted nearly every night.

Also in agreement with others that some things I first noticed:

--asking about my religion, ward, talking about politics when we've just met.
--really personal questions to suss out my finances, family money
--friendliness but not friends
--coffee or clothes that show shape or saying anything remotely about sex (including sex education) puts that worried furrow in their brow.
--talking about nauvoo or their mission and all the vocabulary that entails like 1)I'm supposed to both know what the hell they're talking about and 2)nod in approval

I also feel like a rude jerk when pushed to my limit and having to say no-loudly and to their face-- because all my "no" signals are not being read.

Mormons raised outside of Utah know how to talk and interact (IMO anyway). There's a give and take in conversations. In utah it's more like an interrogation. I want to just ask them to give me their survey or list of questions so I can answer them (aka throw them away) at my own convenience.

Many years ago I worked for a Utah-owned company in Murray. Most of the upper management were mormons and they decided to have a proper Christmas party. They planned it for The Organ Loft. Many of my coworkers got there and tried to order an alcoholic drink only to be told it was a dry party. The whole party lasted maybe two hours. Food was cheap and lousy, no entertainment, just a simple boring morg party. I'm surprised they didn't have a blessing on the food.

By Christmas the next year, the company had been sold to a California firm and they planned the party. It was held at the FOE club in West Valley. Party lasted until about 1 am when they had to close. There was dancing, the food was spectacular, one of the new owners told the bar that he would pick up the entire cost. Nobody got drunk but there was plenty of alcohol. And we all just got along. Too bad the new firm closed us down and moved operations to Tijuana.

I understand where you’re coming from. I hate to censure my own people but at the same time I can’t deny the things you are saying. I might be able to help you understand some of the reasons for that.

The Mormons were a unique and a distinct or detached group from the people they were in contact with, from the very beginning. Because of their different beliefs and different practices, they were persecuted, mistreated, some were killed, they were expelled from their own lands and etc. They learned to live together as a tight-knit group e.g. they stuck together because they knew they wouldn’t mistreat each other and they could believe and live as they wanted. Then they came to Utah where they had a place of their very own! The close relationship still existed and exists today. But some have not learned to mix in with others not of their faith. They have been taught not to judge and to love everybody…to “treat their neighbor as themselves”. I think some have built a little wall around them because they fear being mistreated again. Or maybe because they don’t have enough confidence in themselves and their ability to set out on their own, to live their life as the kind of person they want to be as they mix in with all those around them. Yes, cigarettes and alcohol will always be a problem. They don’t believe in using them and most of them don’t like being around them. We all need to be more tolerant of each other. But I think, if the tables were turned and you were the non-smoker and non-drinker it would be hard for you too, to have smoke blown in your face and breathe it in the air…and drinkers rarely mix with non-drinkers. Plus I think that most people who drink and smoke are very aware of their situation and wish they could quit. But it’s hard. It’s addictive.

Let’s see if I can bring this closer to home for you. Let’s say you are a hunter or a sports fan or heavily into computers. If you are a hunter and get into a conversation with another hunter, oh how deep, how excited, intensive and lengthy your conversation will be. You have all that practice, the knowledge of the preparation for the hunt, the different rifles used, how to find game, how to keep yourself hidden until it’s time to shoot, how to dress the animal and how to best cut it up…you have all that in common. OK, try and get an auto aficionado and a hunter together and see what they talk about. Unless they have something else in common, probably very little if anything. Their interests lie in two separate fields. The Mormon and everybody else’s interests lie in two separate fields, unless they have something else in common. Next time you see or are around one, make an effort to find out something you both have an interest in. Then start up a conversation on that subject and see what kind of response and excitement you both feel. Part of the responsibility for feeling accepted and as part of the group depends on you too!

Go out of our way to break through the barriers that TBMs put up to keep from being 'contaminated' by non or ex mormons?

Non-members might have a shot, but not exmos.

You wrote "...Plus I think that most people who drink and smoke are very aware of their situation and wish they could quit. But it’s hard. It’s addictive."

That is complete non-sense. I just spent a couple of hours today with a good friend where we had 2 beers each. That's all. It was enjoyable to get together to talk. Alcohol was a small part of getting together today. An excellent craft beer just adds to the occasion. We are both retired and had plenty of free time to just relax and hang out. Your comment appears to be from one who must still be a Mormon.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2016 04:03PM by Eric K.

^^^^ 100% agree.

"Plus I think that most people who drink and smoke are very aware of their situation and wish they could quit. But it’s hard. It’s addictive."

Say what?? Utter nonsense. This poster has no clue about how normal, non-mormon adults handle alcohol. The term "perpetual childhood" comes to mind.

You seriously still buying into the persecution thing. Study your history. Mormons gave as good as they got. What Mormons call persecution was simply retaliation because of their offensive and inappropriate actions.

And these are the same Mormons that killed all the Native Americans in Utah Valley. They weren't this poor little group of harmless people they make themselves out to be.

Mormons view everyone who drinks as drunks. Normal people enjoy a glass of wine or two or a beer and No, they don't wish they could quit because they aren't addicted. That is Mormon thinking.

+1000

ditto M.Breckenridge. Study your history. There are plenty of links from the main page.

Exactly. Mormons believe that someone who has had a single drink is an alcoholic, which isn't true as most people don't drink all the time. For me, alcohol was the easiest thing to give up when I became a hormonal convert, and even after resigning, I'm not much of a drinker at all. Now, I might have a glass of wine with a meal or a pint of beer with friends, but it's not an everyday thing for me.

As for smoking, I didn't need a church to tell me not to do it, so I've never smoked in my life, nor do I plan to start anytime soon.

There's no need to judge or make comments though to someone else who chooses to drink or smoke. I have a dear friend who is a recovering alcoholic. If we're around someone who wants a drink and they ask her if she's okay with it, she always answers, "thanks for asking, but my recovery is my responsibility. Have what you want!" What's wrong with this? Why can't people live and let live?

"blaming the victim" for not trying hard enough to fit in, in an environment that's at best not tolerant of non-mormons, and at worst is outright hostile to them?

You should work for BYU's Title IX department. They're good at blaming the victims, too.

caaron writes:
"I might be able to help you understand some of the reasons for that."

What you seem to miss is that most of us here were Mormons once. We probably know more about Mormon history and doctrine than you do because we aren't limited to info published by TSCC.
Your coming here to lecture us about Mormonism is frankly insulting.

I don't smoke. I drink when I want to. I'm not addicted, and have no problem putting it down. I went 30 years without a single sip of alcohol. It wasn't a problem. I have several friends who drink. They've been my friends for 50 years. They don't care if I drink or not. Our friendship isn't based on alcohol. Some of them smoke. It's none of my business. I'm not going to stop being their friend.

Mormons have very weird and wrong ideas about people who aren't just like they are. Instead of getting to know people who aren't exactly like them, they avoid. They avoid, and misjudge. They usually are way out of line in their judgements. Mormons are a pia to be around because they're so self righteous and so misinformed. They always have an agenda. It gets to the point that they're just too much trouble to be friends with. It's annoying that grown adults won't think for themselves. They will follow what someone else tells them to think and do, to the letter. They don't stop to think how this affects them. They believe what a bunch of old corporate execs tell them to do and they've usually have never met those guys. That's just a childish way to be an adult.

Mormons: Loudly walking on eggshells since 1830-something"

I made the mistake of moving to Provo in 1990. I was working at home producing an upcoming software title at the time, and was a little tired of the high cost of California living, so I went to Provo, rented a big place cheap, and thought it would be OK as I had family nearby.

Huge mistake.

My first week there, all my new neighbors were so happy to see me move in! They all asked if I was mormon. When I told them I used to be, but left the church (and if you know me here, you know I can be rather blunt), and why, the happy neighbors turned into invisible neighbors. I found out a few months later that I'd earned the nickname "the ex-mormon on the corner to be left alone" in the area. I'd offer to help people move, mow their lawns, etc. -- it was like I had leprosy.

I'd been there almost two weeks when, out of coffee at home one Sunday morning, I hopped in the car in my sweatpants and a t-shirt, drove to 7-11, and bought a big cup of coffee and some donuts. A police car was sitting across the street. Got back into the car to drive home, and was immediately pulled over by the mormon cops. For having a "tail light out" (which I didn't). Checked over my license (still Calif.) and registration (still Calif.), was explicitly asked if I was LDS, was warned that if I was going to stay I'd better get my Utah license and plates, and then let go...but followed all the way home, so now they knew where I lived. This became a regular gig, even after I got a Utah license and plates; anytime I would go buy something on Sunday (usually coffee), I'd get followed by a cop, and often pulled over for some "equipment" issue which I never got ticketed for.

My brother invited me to play on the ward men's softball team. So I did. The guys were mostly nice the first game. Then apparently they asked my brother why I wasn't LDS, he told them I'd left the church, and every game after that they treated me like shit. I'd hit a home run with the bases loaded, and they'd high-five themselves but not me. I quit after 5 games.

After 6 months, I'd had enough. Couldn't stand the place. Couldn't stand the people. Didn't make a single friend. So I went back to high-priced California, where nobody cared if I was mormon or not, the cops left me alone (they were busy doing what the Provo cops did to non-mormons, only to blacks & latinos!), and I could have a beer on my porch without being called Satan.

Utah. Ugh.

Boy, what a difference a state makes!

Last time I lived in California I was a young mother with a toddler. On my way to church one morning was running late (Mormon standard time, maybe you remember that?) and what does a young Mormon mom do when running late, but step on the gas pedal!

So an officer pulls me over to write me a speeding ticket. Once I told him why I was speeding, he replied he would cut me some slack since I was going to church instead of for donuts and coffee. I kid you not. I doubt he was a Mormon, he didn't care to ask what I was. Just that I was going to church and not making a run for coffee instead.

Caaron-
Truth: LDS, Inc. is an anachronistic organization that refuses to let go of their persecution complex, refusal to accept change and adherence to arbitrary rules that prevent your little church to join the 21st century.

It is the incompatible societal mores of mormondom that keeps your 'peculiar people' separate.

The rest of the world is not to blame for the friction between Mormons and everyone else. It is not caused by the vices or forward thought of the rest of the world. It is strictly caused by you and your dumb real estate conglomerate posing as a religion.

caaron, I can appreciate your effort to voice an alternative opinion, but many of your assumptions are false and, frankly, sound a lot like the faulty assumptions many Mormons make - ones that form the basis for their embarrassing lack of social skills.

For example, people who drink often interact with non-drinkers. I certainly do. Outside of Mormonism, whether or not a person chooses to imbibe has little impact on forming friendships. Also, most smokers are careful not to blow smoke in people's faces. Unless, of course, they are intentionally trying to be rude.

I rarely post here, but I've been reading this board almost since its inception and I feel pretty confident that many, if not most of the regular posters here have knocked themselves out trying to find common ground with their believing Mormon families and neighbors, to no avail. Perhaps you should reread invinoveritas' excellent post! He cites many such examples, as have some others on this thread.

But I can concur with you on one thing:

"The Mormon and everybody else’s interests lie in two separate fields." - No kidding!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2016 06:51PM by donnabanta.

" . . .most of the regular posters here have knocked themselves out trying to find common ground with their believing Mormon families and neighbors, to no avail."

This. What DonnaBanta said. It's the exmos who do the heavy lifting in trying to establish sincere relationships with the TBM family. But it takes two to tango, and the Mormons have no dancing shoes when it comes to us.

LMAO!!! This post is "AWESOME"! (Direct quote from the movie Tommy Boy).

Funny!

My wife and I, when we were dating, invited a roommate of hers to watch the movie Hunt For Red October. This movie is rated R due to some F-Bombs.

The roommate replied, "That movie is rated R, no thanks". I just hated this response so badly from a southern utah hypocrite. So I recounted to her that the movie that she watched the night before, "The Fugitive" PG-13, was also morally inappropriate because they take the Lord's name in vain, and last time I check, that is one of the original 10 Commandments.

I suppose it's not going to be much of a surprise...

caaron joined PostMormon(dot)org, where the three atheist moderators voted to let him post, under the guise of a TBM wanting to HELP exmos. Since he was a Newbie (under the posting system there) he said we were post-bies and he was an everbie...) Here's what he wanted to do, his words:

1. Because I really am interested in knowing what has led a former ever-bie to become a post-bie, and

2. To serve as a resource for anyone who has a question about how their decision affects the ever-bies and to give you feedback and my honest opinion on that decision.


He was pretty good! He lasted five days... Here are some of his words:

"...you're still lashing out. Using this blog as an outlet for your anger and frustration hasn't helped. You're still that way. All I'm saying is that you've got to get over that."

"The most powerful testimony I have is of our future if we’re faithful and follow Christ’s word. There are blessings promised us that are indescribable. I haven’t heard of any other Christian denomination, group, congregation or whatever offer us what is possible for us to receive and the joy we will be able to experience if we’re found faithful at the last day. Even if I didn’t already believe it, I would bet my life on it, because I haven’t found anything, any creed, belief system…that can offer me better!"

"Christianity is the higher bunk. Additional, expanded knowledge which is being ‘dumbed down’ to accommodate everybody…believers, non-believers, atheists, doubters, you name its. You have your choice. You can choose to be ‘dumbed down’. That is what, in essence, you are doing. Anybody can complain, disagree, dissent, be a freethinker you name it. Why not expand your knowledge, lower your pride, acknowledge your weaknesses, and resort to Someone who can help you and raise you up (intellectually, emotionally, spiritually and physically [resurrect])?"


The "...resort to Someone who can help you and raise you up..." was the final straw. Utah mormonism at its best.

He's on a mission from ghawd, he's Daniel, bravely bearding the lions in their den. He's an oaf.

He must have lots of time on his TBM oafish hands. He should
know that proslytizing isn't allowed here.

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He should know that proslytizing isn't allowed here.

Yes, he should. He needs to read the "Guidelines, Censorship, Trolls, Rumors, and Religious Wars" sticky [informally known as: The Rules of RfM], at the top of the Message List page.

I've read his posts, and what I get out of them is that, whether he knows it or not, he is (unconsciously, and with very soft steps) on his way out.

Reading my words here, he may freeze like a deer caught in the headlights, and he may then scurry off rapidly, but I have a feeling that if he does, he will be back again.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2016 09:52PM by Tevai.

I've been in Utah for 30 years and your observations are correct. And about weddings..... I've NEVER witnessed a fun Mormon wedding reception. (Can't comment on the actual wedding, since I've never seen a temple wedding. But I'm kinda betting those are no fun either.)
Conversely, I've been to many non-mormon weddings and receptions that were an absolute blast!